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Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 9:29am.
Sgt. Jim Ramm, using the nickname Shistad, visited OlyBlog back in Feb., he contributed to this thread Write your own caption #1. The thread is worth reading also because it includes an account by an Oly resident of finding hate flyers littering yards and sidewalks in a neighborhood. Mr. Ramm is our N.W. connection. The last musing on Jim Ramm that I've written can be found here (update 10/18/2006, first link no longer works, current working link to Orcinus piece including info on Ramsey is Weeding out those racists) includes a link to Dave Neiwert's great blog Orcinus with his article drawing connections between the anti-immigrant movement and white supremacists. This article includes information on Jim Ramm/Matthew Ramsey. Mr. Ramm (don't call him Lambie) can be reached at mindfelon@yahoo.com. I'm not going to list his web site. Although he doesn't know any of us, he has decided that he strongly dislikes us all. And he won't be happy with anything any of us write. Jim Ramm & Dylan Marchand, photo courtesy of Groundview Productions #1 #2
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OlyBlog.net OlyBlog is devoted to hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. Contributors to OlyBlog are citizen journalists who care about their community and are tired of corporate media. If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our Social Contract. You should also look at our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here. Olyblogger of the Month: Docents are fellow citizen journalists who volunteer to be at your service in order to help with any blog-related issues. They are: Rob RichardsInterests: community building; participatory art, democracy and economics; local politics; citizen journalism. emmettoconnell Interests: City Council, developing a local issues forum. enpen Interests: OlyBlog calendar, Oly street art, local artist interviews, his family, poetry and stuff. Robert Whitlock Interests: peace, justice, nature, nonviolence, media, environment Rick Interests: citizen journalism, hyperlocal media, the knowledge commons. Docent email list Latest Classified Ads Books & Collections ›Blog Local Nazis come to OlyWa: A history (so far) 
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I'd be willing to share.
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 10:49am.In any case, he almost refuses to publicly dislike me. Maybe we can become good friends.
Economic Model?
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 10:56am."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
It's official! Jim and I are
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 11:19am.We're off to a rocky start, but doing fairly well considering we've never met or spent any time together. We must both be really gifted at this whole friendship thing, to overcome the huge social barriers we've already surmounted! I'm really proud of us for keeping the dialogue open and continuing to be friends despite our perceived differences.
Promise
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 2:39pm.Pure chaos
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 2:38pm.I don't think the private
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 2:50pm.Excellent
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 2:57pm.Okay
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 2:33pm.In that case, any of us who hang out with Meta are cool by default.
So far Jim Ramm is our favorite, I'll be writing about others too so we have more to choose from. I just beg us all to not forget our less favorite Nazis, they need to hear from us also.
Where are our uniforms?
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 12:55pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Perhaps you could wear, as
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 1:26pm.^@^~ (that's a line of stench, not a salmon, next to the caiman)
Garlic
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 06/12/2006 - 2:42pm.I pick Ramm...he looks a lot
Submitted by Frummer on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 12:43pm.Welcome
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 12:47pm.Welcome to OlyBlog too!
Addition: Frummer is an interesting name choice. And to indulge my google geekery, here is the story and lyrics for Bette Davis Eyes.
*OlyBlog: Where you can get welcomed, wikipediaed, and googled!*
Blushing
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 11:57pm.Imagine
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 9:58am.As for the other, ideally to my mind it wouldn't be illegal, the you know what part, but I agree - not as weird as blushing crows.
'Scuse me while I kiss this guy...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 1:28pm.('Scuse me while I kiss the sky. -- J. Hendrix)
Other oronyms.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
My grandparents were orthodox
Submitted by Frummer on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 1:59pm.I worry it's going to kill
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 1:58pm.You REALLY want to see behind those shades?
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 6:06pm.I say IF you REALLY want to, because once you see it you will never sleep a full night again. It is pretty scary.
Here is the link. Please realize that he'll probably sue us if we host the photo ourselves. Oh, well. Now at least you know why he wears the glasses.
Do you REALLY want to go there? I warned you!
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Hey! I know him!
Submitted by Frummer on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 7:55pm.On a serious note....
Submitted by Frummer on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 8:35pm.We're right there...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 9:19pm....with you on that. I think of it as the clowns (Ramm, etc.) and the clown overlords (Buchanan, etc.). The uberclowns, as it were.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
The Tragedy...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 10/20/2006 - 10:43am.The US imported most of R. Gehlen's organization into the United States and South America, and gave them jobs constructing the intelligence underpinnings of the Cold War, Space Race, and missle amageddon which we've lived with ever since.
The US adopted forfeiture laws eerily similar to the Nuremburg Laws (which forbade property ownership in Germany by those of 'unclean blood') - but our version defines unclean blood as one with marijuana or opiate metabolites in it.
The great jewish conspiracy has been replaced by an antisemitism of a more anti-arab stripe - the bearded cleric is iconic of the 'terrorist,' while more actual FBI agent-hours are spent chasing kids who tree sit or free mink on a farm somewhere.
The election system has been hijacked in a way that Hitler could only have dreamt of.
The only three steel framed buildings which have ever collapsed in world history due to fire, collapsed on September 11, 2001, in lower Manhattan. One of them was not even hit by a jet. The folks who placed put options on the two airliners involved never stepped forward to claim their loot, and somehow were completely anonymous even though the press reported that the put options existed. Try calling your broker and placing an anonymous investment. Go ahead - try it!
Meanwhile, the whole North American fighter response was confused between the excercises going on that morning, and the real hijacks which were also happening. But a man in a cave in Afghanistan could not have ordered the Northern Vigilance and Northern Guardian excercises, while the office of the Vice President could.
And people sneer at the Reichstag fire as an obvious ploy... while forgetting its lessons entirely.
Tragedy served twice is farce.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Buchanan's true colors.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:03pm.My apologies....my
Submitted by Frummer on Fri, 10/20/2006 - 11:45am.I'm with ya on the conspiracy theory stuff...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Fri, 10/20/2006 - 12:48pm.And by the way Drew, steel framed structures collapse from fire all the time. (Most warehouses have steel frames, remember the four firefighters who died in the Pang warehouse fire in Seattle?) To my recollection (a bit foggy, I went through the fire academy 7 years ago), steel fails under temperatures of 1200 degrees fahrenheit. Even a simple Class A fire (basic combustibles commonly found in residences and office buildings) will cause steel trusses to fail when contained inside a building.
Class A fires are nothing compared with jet fuel. I remember when the Port of Seattle came to do a training exercise on the airplane props at the Fire Academy... flames reached hundreds of feet into the air, and the heat singed my eyebrows from 200 yards away. Little oily ashes rained down on us. Now, I've felt the heat of pending flashover conditions in a Class A fire. I've shielded my face from the radiant heat pouring out of residential fires. I had never, until that airplane training, had to shield my face from heat coming from a source 200 yards away.
Conspiracy theories are defined by the half-baked nature of their supporting evidence. Suggesting that our government coordinated 9/11 is ridiculous and irresponsible.
NOTE: I just looked up the max burning temperature of jet fuel. 980 degrees Celsius, or 1796 degrees fahrenheit. Plenty hot enough for steel to fail.
Take a peek
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 10/20/2006 - 6:53pm.link
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Silly Drew
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sat, 10/21/2006 - 12:11pm.This site might help to answer a lot of the questions and concerns raised on your previous link.
I'll leave you with a quote from Michael Shermer, writing in Scientific American (courtesy of wikipedia):
"The mistaken belief that a handful of unexplained anomalies can undermine a well-established theory lies at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking (as well as creationism, Holocaust denial and the various crank theories of physics). All the "evidence" for a 9/11 conspiracy falls under the rubric of this fallacy. Such notions are easily refuted by noting that scientific theories are not built on single facts alone but on a convergence of evidence assembled from multiple lines of inquiry."
Of course, he could be part of the conspiracy. So could I. Someone once saw me talking with that guy. You know, THAT GUY?!
Play the ball...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sat, 10/21/2006 - 7:12pm.The offical version says that a man hiding in a Third World country at the time used his influence to hire 19 (or 20) men of Yemeni and Saudi Arabian nationality to enter the US, obtain flight training, hijack and control various commercial aircraft for more than 30 minutes each, and crash three of those aircraft into three buildings in two cities.
The problems with this story are legion;
The fact that the average fighter response time in the US to ANY hijacked aircraft is 8 minutes, and that intercept procedure is carried out around 200 times a year on average.
Two of the buildings which were hit by aircraft collapsed entirely, along with one which was NOT hit by an aircraft. This third building (WTC 7) came down symetrically, that is to say with its roof parallel to the ground, on film from several angles, around 5PM the day of the attacks.
Another building, the Pentagon, was hit with an aircraft which was too large to fit in the 16 foot hole visible in the side of the building in photos taken prior to a partial collapse of the roof of that section of the building. The aircraft was also on a flat spiral course, flown by a sub-average pilot in a steep turn many experienced pilots have disputed would be possible for that aircraft.
Your assertion that steel structures collapse in fires all the time is correct, but the assertion fails when you compare it with other steel framed high rise buildings which have burned in history. These three are the ONLY examples of this in history.
You imply that Jet Fuel is especially apparent as the culprit, despite the obvious and HUGE fireballs which consumed a calculable amount of the aircraft fuel on videotape OUTSIDE the buildings. The notion that the maximum temperature for burning kerosene (jet fuel) would be that hot at ordinary air pressure is also not sound chemistry. The temperature you cite is ONLY reached in the high compression situation inside a jet engine, which is designed to compress a large volume of air very quickly and continuously.
All of that aside, I think we should take this to another thread since the original question I was answering was about how we've become what the Nazis were. And I don't think we're in any serious disagreement on that general point.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Isn't The Empire State
Submitted by Frummer on Sat, 10/21/2006 - 7:19pm.Hmmm...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sat, 10/21/2006 - 7:35pm.I'll just note that neither of you have addressed the serious allegations, evidence, or logic of the piece and so have not "played the ball." Rather than address the issue, you have labeled the site instead.
Yes, the B-25 which killed a steno pool and the pilots and set the building on fire hit a reinforced concrete building. The comparison was with an airplane crashing into another building, not to the type of constuction the building was made of. Reinforced concrete is easier to knock down (more brittle, heavier) and would have not been possible to use in a building the size and height of the World Trade Center, anyway. But the important thing to note is that the fire did not knock even the reinforced concrete building down. It easily could have - there are other examples of this. It is one of the reasons we build with structural steel instead.
Keep in mind that the Page 4 disclaimer in the NIST report is that "No part of any report resulting from a NIST investigation into a structural failure or from an investigation under the (NCST Act) may be used in any suit or action for damages arising from any matter mentioned in such report..."
When I see weasel words of this type, I know where to file everything which follows. Reminds me of the preamble to the 2000 Supreme Court decision in Baker v Florida...
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Didn't address allegations?
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 10/22/2006 - 12:29pm.As far as the legal disclaimer in the final NIST report goes, I imagine that it was intended to protect the owners and architects of the towers from litigation. Certainly weaselish, but hardly a significant factor regarding NISTs credibility.
Hoisted on their own Pitard
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Tue, 10/24/2006 - 2:04am."3. How could the WTC towers have collapsed without a controlled demolition since no steel-frame, high-rise buildings have ever before or since been brought down due to fires? Temperatures due to fire don't get hot enough for buildings to collapse.
Their answer:
The collapse of the WTC towers was not caused either by a conventional building fire or even solely by the concurrent multi-floor fires that day. Instead, NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large, jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires weakened the now susceptible structural steel. No building in the United States has ever been subjected to the massive structural damage and concurrent multi-floor fires that the towers experienced on Sept. 11, 2001. "
MY answer to this:
There are two major issues I have with this statement: World Trade Center Seven collapsed in a manner exactly opposite from the WTC towers One and Two, in that it collapsed from the bottom up (not from the top down) and was NEVER hit by an aircraft, loosening any fireproofing material.
Second, how are we expected to believe that the floors of the WTC One and Two towers were melted enough to sag, despite being concrete and steel matrices able to absorb a HUGE amount of heat energy - and still somehow cling so indefeatably to the perimeter columns? Why would not the bolts attaching the hat trusses simply fail? Wouldn't this be the weak link in the chain?
BONUS PROBLEM - look at the video, and tell me where the puffs of ejecta come from. Or for that matter, tell me why the collapse wave is ejecting material almost 250-300 feet out from the sides of the building as the building collapses without explosive forces of any kind?
BONUS NUMBER TWO - how do you get that jet fuel so hot after 56 minutes in one case, and 102 minutes in another, since all of the jet fuel would have been open to ordinary air pressure (big airplane holes, remember?) and also be all burned off in minutes, not tens of minutes or a couple of hours? Nevermind for the moment that most of the fuel vaporized OUTSIDE the building right in front of everyone in a huge fireball...
Keep in mind that the firefighters said they heard explosions, and the building fell at very near to free fall speed. And steel is a great heatsink - which has to be explained away suddenly, if you want this fuel to be a cause of significant weakening of the structure. And the NIST estimated that the structural damage to the perimeter columns was 11% of the total strength of the buildings. Which obviously stood well after the actual impact of the aircraft, which never hit WTC 7 at all.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Have another look at the NIST page...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 10/24/2006 - 9:53am.Phil,
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Tue, 10/24/2006 - 10:25am.It's like arguing you shot in self defense, with one gun, alone, while the autopsy finds two separate kinds of ammunition in the victim's body. (actual example from recent Thurston County history)
And nowhere does the NIST report answer the central issue about how three of four hijacks gets through the entire North American air defense system and all the way back to the East Coast after turning around as far inland as Ohio. Of course, that is not the NIST's job. But if we're "prosecuting" Bin Laden, we have to explain that.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Well, I'll tell you what,
Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 10/24/2006 - 10:56am.Finally, we agree!
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sat, 10/28/2006 - 5:16pm.What would satisfy me? Trials in courts would be a start.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
A comment from Fido
Submitted by stevenl on Mon, 06/11/2007 - 5:21am.Matthew Ramsey of Evans, Washington ...
Submitted by stevenl on Sun, 06/10/2007 - 10:48pm.... without his ridiculous shades and silly hat. Check out his self-serving speech . This guy is screaming for attention. He needs adoption badly. An interesting and revealing video on Ramsey's psychology and the tactics of the NSM. He was probably a very shy and quiet boy, the younger brother who never learned the basic skills of socialization yet fears abandonment. Shedding his birth name and adopting the porn film "Jim Ramm" moniker has probably confounded his blood family but gained him a new and artificial family, the NSM. His new family has given him the attention he has craved, but unfortunately for him some of that has come from the Feds, I'm sure. Matthew is probably kept on a short leash, however. Who has the hand on the other end of that leash is a very good question.
I notice the American Nazis are attempting to use the anti-immigration issue as a form of demagoguery. In response to that, I always enjoyed presidential aspirant Pat Paulsen's stand on that issue: "All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian"Your Nazi update
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 10/22/2007 - 8:11am.Jim Ramm/Matthew Ramsey has announced that he has left the National Socialist Movement (NSM). And he is not a happy camper. Accusations are flying from all directions. One of the most interesting accusations is that the NSM exists purely as a $ maker for their commander Jeff Schoep.
Has Ramm also left behind his racist ways? Alas, he has not.