Andy and enpen on art

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Andy and enpen on art

Submitted by emmettoconnell on Mon, 09/24/2007 - 8:22pm.

Let's just say that Andy Maris over at Thurston Pundits and enpen see the world differently.

Andy:

An aggressive stance on taking down graffiti as soon as it appears and working with law enforcement to crack down on the punks doing this is never a bad use of resources. Also kudos to the number of citizens who are starting to step up and take an active stance on this as well.

I contrast this with taking a walk through downtown Olympia. It would seem that the city and the businesses in that area have no pride, no dignity and are quite content to let a bunch of punks with magic markers and spray paint deface the entire city. Vandalism remains on the signs, streets and buildings for months and even years without ever being addressed. At least the city is nuke free and same sex partners can get health benefits. Perhaps celebrating diversity means welcoming rampant crime as well as hating conservatives?

And, if you haven't seen anything of what enpen has documented, go here, here or here.

emmettoconnell's blog
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I feel...

Submitted by enpen on Mon, 09/24/2007 - 8:55pm.

...like such an enabler. And it made me snicker.

Edit: I found this timely resource.

Unlike Tacoma

Submitted by cupric oxide on Tue, 09/25/2007 - 12:15am.

where there's a chicken in every pot and a nuke in everyone's backyard.

I can't say I am surprised.

Submitted by oldtimeydave on Tue, 09/25/2007 - 5:15pm.

What Enpen is doing is basically helping publicize to and even document for those who are in opposition. This is like I said in two previous threads. The average community member (especially conservative ones) don't necessarily appreciate aresol art (or markers) sprayed about where ever the artist wishes. Freewalls are one thing however unarthorized painting of private property is vandalism plain and simple.

Dave White - "Old Timey Dave"
Oldtime Design & Beverage Blog

Perfect

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 09/25/2007 - 5:52pm.

Nothing else to say, just perfect.

I agree

Submitted by enpen on Tue, 09/25/2007 - 7:40pm.

It may feel like "diluting" the art form but to me rallying local artists into community supported/sponsored murals and projects sounds like a much better solution than seeing it all come to an end or even worse seeing artists thrown in jail or fined.

We're on the same page. A problem street/urban art currently faces is that it is not recognized/appreciated as an art that adds value to a community, so traditionally communities have been reluctant to support it. I'm currently in the process of compiling the evidence with which to make a case to our community that supporting this movement would be a good move, so to speak. A lot of the work has already been done for me. Olympia is rich in alternative arts cultures and there are a number of writers here who have been active for quite awhile, so there's developed talent. But there's only one free wall and it exists despite public opinion, not because of it. I'm not a graffiti writer, I'm a poet, so I'm trying to figure out how I can use my abilities and way of seeing the world to benefit the community at large. Allowing myself to be inspired by the visual narratives at work in downtown Olympia is what helps me inspire support for them from our community. At least, that's the premise I'm working under.

I'm not a graffiti writer,

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Tue, 09/25/2007 - 8:13pm.

I'm not a graffiti writer, I'm a poet, so I'm trying to figure out how I can use my abilities and way of seeing the world to benefit the community at large. Allowing myself to be inspired by the visual narratives at work in downtown Olympia is what helps me inspire support for them from our community. At least, that's the premise I'm working under.

And whom will you present your "documented" works to?

whomever I can

Submitted by enpen on Tue, 09/25/2007 - 8:44pm.

Cataloging the Free Wall on OlyBlog allows me to present it 24/7 to anybody who stops by. The pictures I take and put up on my flickr account have begun to attract greater interest in Olympia's arts from Australia to Brazil to England to France and all over the U.S. and serve as a 24/7 presentation as well.

As far as a specific time and place on the local side, I'll be presenting the March 2008 Olympia Arts Roundtable on Urban Art. By that point I intend to provide a cohesive verbal/visual narrative of how Urban Art fits into the art world schema and how Olympia stands to add to and benefit from encouraging rather than stifling its local manifestations.

I'm not sure how Olympia

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 7:39am.

I'm not sure how Olympia stands to benefit from tagging and property damage. Could you explain how your work will contain this art form or is the goal overall acceptance? Graffiti as an art form is already accepted. Even in the most urban of areas the art form is contained and for the most part has become mainstream, very mainstream, and certainly not as underground as it's intended to be.

where there's a will

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 11:08am.

You not understanding is indicative of precisely why I'm setting out to build a case. My goal is not to contain the art form as I don't think that's a realistic possibility. People writing on walls is one of the earliest records of artistic expression we have, I think it's a fool's errand to try to stop that. No, what I would like to see is pretty succinctly spelled out here. And I'm not just talking about graffiti when I say street/urban art, the movement is quite literally exploding all throughout the world using every medium available and it is quickly becoming a major mode through which young artists choose to express themselves. I believe it is, in historical analysis of art movements, the next phase of non-virtual art revolution. Graffiti is merely its primary champion right now due to the extreme amount of money hip-hop has generated.

Graffiti as an art form is already accepted. Even in the most urban of areas the art form is contained and for the most part has become mainstream, very mainstream, and certainly not as underground as it's intended to be.

Graffiti as an art is at the nascence of its acceptance and is rapidly developing new styles and modes of expression. Stencils are just now taking off. Stickers are beginning to find a market. Sculpture urban art is just developing. As to it being an intentional underground art, I don't know where you get that from. It's been forced underground and developed a lot of its aesthetic due to issues of legality and poverty. But when artists "get up" in a city, the goal is to be seen by everyone and the internet has only expanded that ability.

Right now the city of Olympia has one legal space for street artists to practice upon. Portland has none, and I think Seattle has one that just started. King County is trying to make spray-paint something only sold behind counters and unavailable to people under 18. Portland already passed that law. Olympia is ideally situated to be an incubator and facilitator of this modern art movement in the Pacific NW by providing space for the talent to develop dynamically (it doesn't just exist). The reward would come in increased tourism dollars and a continuing development of the community's identity as an arts haven. The potential for Olympia to be incredibly unique as a destination in the world is real and available, but like all things, it requires investment and patience.

I guess I disagree with you.

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:37pm.

I guess I disagree with you. Historically graffiti, in the form you post has been an underground genre. Never driven underground, it was always there. The popularization of the hip hop movement has little to do with Olympia, and I think it is odd that you would think so. Man walked the earth before the wheel and he wrote on walls because he didn't have an easel, so that theory is off. I'm not sure where you get that I do not understand Graffiti, and if you took the time to do some historic research to Olympia and the Free Wall you would have a clear understanding to my place in this. Olympia is not urban, and if that is what you thought when you arrived, it was only due to the property damage that you deem art. Olympia is a burg with allot of talented artist including those that work within this genre. Not only do I understand Graffiti, but as an advocate for such art I have commissioned many legal pieces on my buildings Downtown. I do not advocate property damage, such as stickers and glass etching which by the way are also included in this particular genre. Tagging of historic structures and store fronts Downtown Olympia is not acceptable a a form of art. Your "work" suggests that this is ok........ or am I still missing something? If you really wish to see your "work" go forward let's chat as I think the energy you are placing into the project is good, but it will not impress those who will make the choice to add or delete free walls from the community, but I can provide you with the last 20 years of community effort to get a handle on it. Anyhow, know that while I appreciate many forms of art, graffiti has been a part of my life for years and the current popularity of the genre is caused by fan boys and I think it is a direct sell out.

hold on there...

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:28pm.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with all of this. So here's my attempt at getting to its root.

You said that you didn't understand how Olympia stands to benefit from tagging and property damage. This is what I was addressing, not your understanding of graffiti. Specifically I don't think Olympia has much to gain by these facets of the urban art movement, but Olympia has much to gain by supporting the talents behind a lot of the people currently tagging. And I didn't say anything about hip-hop relating to Olympia's graffiti scene either, rather that hip-hop is responsible for graffiti's primary representation of urban art in the public mind.

As far as my theory, did people stop writing and painting on walls with the invention of the easel?

Your "work" suggests that this is ok........ or am I still missing something?

My fundamental assumption is that if people see monetary value in something, more of them will be willing to listen. My selfish value in this is to enter into a conversation with local visual artists and foster creativity in my community, not to make money off of their work. So in cataloguing the city I'd like to eventually pull enough material together to put out a book or books, the proceeds of which would go to something like a fund to provide restitution for businesses and people affected by vandalism. Nothing has convinced me that addressing the issue through means of force works, the public art movement is only growing in popularity and participants. So I think we should try something else.

I can provide you with the last 20 years of community effort to get a handle on it.

This I'll absolutely take you up on and is the next phase of what I'm doing. While I'll agree to disagree with you on whether or not Oly is urban, I have no illusions about my newness here and ignorance to Olympia's past. I'm available Monday, Tuesday and Friday nights. Of, if you don't mind a little kid running around, I'm capable of meeting up during days.

Thanks for the explanation

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:15pm.

Thanks for the explanation of your " work". Sure how bout Monday at the Fishbowl?

Fishbowl it is

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 7:03pm.

6 or 7pm? I'll be bald, with a point-and-shoot camera and a backpack. There may or may not already be a beer involved.

Let's split the difference

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 8:02pm.

Let's split the difference and say 6:30. I'll be the one looking for a bald guy, with a point-and-shoot camera and a backpack (grin) See ya there.

6:30 it is

Submitted by enpen on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 11:50am.

I'll consider myself looked for.

I posted a response

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 7:49am.

Using Andy's response link, I posted a response telling him about our success with the Elks Lodge. It never seemed to make his blog.

I'm not a fan of vandalism, yet I think there are better solutions to this issue than spending police enforcement dollars.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Yeah, don't hold your breath

Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 8:04am.

Andy is pretty consistent about not actually allowing comments to go up on his blog. I used to try to comment over there a lot, but I've backed up and just started writing about what he blogs about. Might as well post your comment here.

I've read Andy's comments

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:45pm.

In the Olympian. Frankly, I'm not surprised at his lack of candor and willingness to exchange thoughts. I'm just a bit skeptical when I hear men complaining about child support, visitation and such. Usually, they are not disclosing the entire truth about the situation, seeking support in the form of sympathy with half truths and no truths. I speak from the position of being a non-custodial and custodial father.

What I told Andy, in my comment, is that in his efforts to complain about graffiti, he missed the great work that was done to solve the problem at the Olympia Elks Lodge. As I told him, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

If Olympia is a "burg"

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:37pm.

What the heck is Bucoda?

A "Burp"

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:45pm.

If I'm not mistaken

What would that make

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 2:46pm.

Fargo?

Its a town. Along with Lind

Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:19pm.

Its a town. Along with Lind and Pe Ell.

A town sounds bigger than

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:41pm.

a burg if you ask me.

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