Anti-Semitic homophobic thug welcome @ Columbia U. but not ROTC.

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Anti-Semitic homophobic thug welcome @ Columbia U. but not ROTC.

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 10:29am.

From John McCain; which can be found here.

ARLINGTON, VA -- U.S. Senator John McCain today made the following statement on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaking at Columbia University:

"I still find it astonishing and astounding that Columbia University would welcome the president of a country that has not only dedicated itself to a policy of extinction of the state of Israel, but as he is speaking, most of the lethal and explosive devices are being exported from Iran into Iraq, endangering and taking the lives of brave Americans who are serving. Meanwhile, Columbia University's belief in free speech does not extend to Reserve Officers' Training Corps units being allowed on their campus to attract outstanding young men and women to serve in the military."

The students wanted ROTC on campus and it was up to Bollinger to make the final decision, either agree with the students or side with the faculty and keep them out, and guess how he chose! The finer points are discussed here, by Dinesh D'Souza,

"President Lee Bollinger of Columbia University is a very open-minded guy, in his own opinion. In inviting the Iranian Prime Minister Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to speak at Columbia, he issued this statement. "Columbia, as a community dedicated to learning and scholarship, is committed to confronting ideas...Necessarily on occasion this will bring us into contact with beliefs that many, most of even all of us will find offensive and even odious. We trust our community, including our students, to be fully capable of dealing with these occasions, through the powers of dialog and reason." So why won't Bollinger allow the Reserve Officers Training Corps (ROTC) to recruit on the Columbia campus? ROTC was expelled from Columbia in the late sixties. In 2003 a majority of students said they wanted ROTC back, to give students the choice to serve their country in this way. The Columbia faculty opposed the measure, however, and Bollinger sided with them against the students."

The article in the next paragraph goes on to explain how Bollinger and the rest of the faculty object to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy of the military. However if you are a world leader known to persecute homosexuals by say... murdering them, you can count on an open pulpit at the prestigious Ivy League University. Adolf Hitler didn't much like homosexuals either, but he would have been welcome.

Think Columbia and its president are only hostile to those who would search out the best young people for service of their country? I hope not, because they are also hostile to people who would volunteer to defend our boarders. People who believe we are a sovereign nation and our boarders should mean something. Many of the students and the faculty are openly hostile towards people who believe that immigrants to our nation should, *gasp* obey our laws, like the rest of us are expected to do. Here is a clip from You Tube of the students disrupting the Minutemen Project. If you watch the clip you might notice the so-called students chanting that the Minutemen are racist fascist and I believe 'KKK'. Did the Iranian President get treated this way? Why not?

(Here is a link incase the embed doesn't work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfnn7wTgoE8 )

Enjoy.

Tschida's blog
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holy formatting issues, Batman!

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 10:58am.

I've heard a lot of our more conservative brothers and sisters talk about Iran providing weapons to fighters in Iraq, but I've yet to see any real proof. I admit, I haven't dug for any, but I'd like to see some nonetheless. After all the bad intel that led us into Iraq, it's kind of important.

I wonder how many of the

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 11:32am.

I wonder how many of the faculty are from the Kent State Shootings era. It would make sense (if not completely excuse) why they'd harbor such opposition to ROTC.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

I don't know how you would find that out...

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:17pm.

Except to research it professor by professor, faculty member by faculty member. Kind of time consuming.

(Edit: It was the Ohio National Guard who did the shooting at Kent State, not the ROTC. In fact a member of the Kent State chapter of the ROTC was shot and killed. This from Wikipedia "The shootings killed four students and wounded nine. Two of the four students killed, Allison Krause and Jeffrey Miller, had participated in the protest, and the other two, Sandra Scheuer and William Schroeder, were walking from one class to the next. Schroeder was also a member of the campus ROTC chapter. Of those wounded, none was closer than 71 feet (22 m) to the guardsmen. Of those killed, the nearest (Miller) was 265 feet (81 m) away." This quote from the last paragraph before the heading fo "Casualties" Emphsis added. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_Shootings#Casualties)

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

I knew that it was the ONG,

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:26pm.

I knew that it was the ONG, and that one of the victims was ROTC. A lot of people will lump all areas of the military into one. Either way, I say Columbia should allow ROTC and let the students decide if they want to check it out or not.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Funny you should point this out

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:25pm.

Whether or not a foriegn leader is invited to speak at Columbia has NOTHING to do with whether or not they want the ROTC on campus. Linking the two issues is a non sequiter if there was one.

Yeah, I don't think so Guglielmo.

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:40pm.

Columbia University invites a man who wishes to have an entire nation removed from the map, who persecutes homosexuals to speak, but the same university president will not allow a student organization because of don't ask don't tell policy, and you think that is a non-sequitur?

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

well...

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:57pm.

...more of an an analogical fallacy, really. Maybe if Bollinger had invited Iran to set up a recruiting station on campus you'd have a better argument, but allowing somebody to speak does not equate to a recruitment drive.

Both instances are issues of free speech.

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:01pm.

Do you really not see that?

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

hmmm

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:20pm.

Does a University have the right to deny a business a recruitment desk on campus?

Not when they accept federal funds.

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:05pm.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

ah jeez

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 7:24pm.

That argument. Let's address both this and the freedom of speech issue.

By the federal funds logic, if the government called up Columbia University tomorrow and told them they had to accept a student into next years class, the University would have no choice in the matter. Accepting federal funds does not mean you have to do everything the government demands, unless of course you're acknowledging that we live under despotic conditions. Assuming that you're not, then the University maintains control over its campus, not the government.

As far as freedom of speech is concerned, that doesn't apply to military recruiting stations. As Rob mentioned before, when you sign up for the military that freedom is no longer granted. As the recruiters are following orders in attending recruitment drives rather than it being of their own free will, then it is not an exercise of their freedom of speech to recruit.

Again, if Iran were given a recruiting table at Columbia, then you'd have a viable analogy with which to attack the decision. As it is, your personal outrage over Ahmedinijab being given an opportunity to address the school suffices as an adequate reason to be pissed off at them, but tying it into the school's denial of ROTC recruiting is just bad logic.

what is "welcome"?

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:47pm.

Really, just what does "welcome" mean to you? And what do you mean when you ask if Ahmadinejad was treated like the Minutemen? If anything President Bollinger used the opportunity to call out and lambast Ahmadinejad. Bollinger said, "Let’s, then, be clear at the beginning, Mr. President you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator." Then he asked, "Why have women, members of the Baha’i faith, homosexuals and so many of our academic colleagues become targets of persecution in your country?" and "Why are you so afraid of Iranian citizens expressing their opinions for change?" and "Why do you support well-documented terrorist organizations that continue to strike at peace and democracy in the Middle East, destroying lives and civil society in the region?" and "Can you tell them and us why Iran is fighting a proxy war in Iraq by arming Shi’a militia targeting and killing U.S. troops?" Then Bollinger comes to a close: "Frankly, and in all candor, Mr. President, I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions. But your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us. I do expect you to exhibit the fanatical mindset that characterizes so much of what you say and do. Fortunately, I am told by experts on your country, that this only further undermines your position in Iran with all the many good-hearted, intelligent citizens there. A year ago, I am reliably told, your preposterous and belligerent statements in this country (as in your meeting at the Council on Foreign Relations) so embarrassed sensible Iranian citizens that this led to your party’s defeat in the December mayoral elections. May this do that and more."

Had Ahmadinejad never been invited to the speak this opportunity to publicly excoriate the man would have never been possible. This was a potentially once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take him to task in person, to directly address the misinformation he often preaches. In my mind I couldn't be happier that somebody like Bollinger had a chance to address him rather than having to watch our bumbling fool of a President continue to make Ahmadinejad look good.

Ok,

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 12:59pm.

You bring up a terrific point. However this same University president will not allow ROTC, for what reason, but he will offer a pulpit to a tyrant. Ohhh, he excoriated him, so what. Everybody already knows the guy is a murderous thug. All this did is make the tyrant look good to his own people who support his power, for "going into the lion's den" I think the quote on Drudge was. Did you think the tyrant didn’t know he would get such an introduction? As for the students of Columbia, well they made it not only unwelcome for a point of view which is conservative; it became physically unsafe as one person in the clip pointed out. Now Columbia students cheer a anti-Semitic homophobe. Do you not see how utterly almost comically backwards these leftist students and faculty are on this issue? C. One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

?

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:15pm.

All this did is make the tyrant look good to his own people who support his power, for "going into the lion's den" I think the quote on Drudge was.

Isn't that what coming to America is for him? The state controlled media in Iran isn't going to allow anything through detrimental to Ahmadinejad regardless. This was for the sake of the non-Iranian media, the distributive power of the internet and the students who are almost assuredly going to be future foreign policy makers. The problem to me is people not concentrating on the content of Bollinger's comments, not concentrating on Ahmadinejad's refusal to answer any questions and instead concentrating on the fact that he was allowed to speak and turning it into some sort of rallying cry against liberalism in higher education.

Excellent point

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:25pm.

the lion's den to Ahmadinejad and his fundamentalist brothers is liberalism (Columbia University style)...and all its moonbats.

Shame on Bollinger

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:40pm.

President Bollinger made an ass out of himself by opening his introduction to Ahmadinejad the way he did. Granted Ahmadinejad is a man to be feared but to invite him to the college you represent and then lambaste him publically in your opening statement is ridiculous and embarassing. No wonder the Iraquis believe what they do about us when people like Bollinger extend an invitation only to attack. I think he should be fired for speaking the way he did. I can & would expect it of the student body but not the President of a university.

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

He had to talk that way

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:44pm.

to help mitigate the ridiculous criticism of the University for acting like a grown-up international institution. That's what college presidents are supposed to do.

I wonder

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:00pm.

Would West Point and Annapolis "welcome" an anti-war speaker? Would they "welcome" the President of Iran? If not, are these military officers not being trained to honor our constitution?

This has become nothing more than an opportunity for the Conservatives to use the fear card (The Ayatollah, not the president, runs the show and declares war), all the time forgetting about "freedom of speech".

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

I don't know that West Point,

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:07pm.

would give quarter to such an overt enemy of our freedom, our nation and its people. They may well have anti war moon bats speak, I simply don't know. To suggest that military schools are not training students to honor the Constitution is kind of laughable.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

Overt enemy of our freedom?

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:21pm.

When did Iran declare war on the US?

Moon bats. Those are people that disagree with killing others because they might disagree with you.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

When they started supplying weaponry to terrorists.

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:07pm.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

The constitution doesn't

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:13pm.

The constitution doesn't apply to those in the military as you become government property when you sign up and essentially waive all of your rights.

What exactly is a moon bat, and why is it relevant to this conversation?

Now here's what we need more of in our military institutions:

Tsch

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:18pm.

What is it about inviting a "foreign leader" to speak that you find indistinguishable from having the ROTC on campus or what food service contractor Columbia University signs with? You could just as easily slam them for not allowing a KKK chapter on campus. There is a big difference between indorsement and providing a limited forum.

He made himself look like an

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:33pm.

He made himself look like an ass Tschida. Honestly I'm glad that he was there because he simply proved to everyone that he's a giant douchebag. At least he was given the opportunity to talk there with an intro like that from Columbia. It could have been like our local university where they invited a cop-killer to speak at graduation with open arms.

Normy,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:42pm.

that's a can of worms you should leave tightly sealed.

Or start a new thread with

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:43pm.

Or start a new thread with it. I'm curious now! TESC?

Yeah, better for another

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:45pm.

Yeah, better for another thread. I might have Susan Sarandon swoop in and clobber me.

Doesn't the original post answer that for you?

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:09pm.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

Can I be a mook?

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 1:57pm.

I don't want to be a moon bat.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Tsch

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:15pm.

No.

Ok, So...

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:32pm.

If I understand you correctly you don't understand why there is a problem with a Ivory Tower liberal university president not allowing ROTC on campus because of a moral judgment about the 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' policy, but it is ok to invite a guy who runs a government that hangs homosexuals? You don't get that? That is beyond you? Perhaps I have over estimated you.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

I'm with ya - it's not just

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 6:06pm.

I'm with ya - it's not just you.

No, what I don't get is your

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:46pm.

is your innability to understand the role of a distinguished University. It's not here to satisfy your notion of politcal correctness.

True, but it is here to

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:41pm.

True, but it is here to satisfy progressive/liberal political correctness, and seems to have been tilting that way for quite awhile now. I think we might need more tasers myself.

What is not to get?

Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:35pm.

You don't stop an institution like ROTC from being on campus because you don't like a policy and you don't invite an anti semitic homophobe who is an enemy of your country. I don't see what there is not to get.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

I do take issue with you

Submitted by DC on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 7:50pm.

I do take issue with you calling Ahmadinejad an enemy of our country. Were not at war with Iran yet. While I don't agree with what Iran deems human rights, they are a sovereign nation and I don't feel it's our place to impose our will on a nation through war.

I am really disgusted with how the bandwagon has started concerning Iran. Rumors of war have been building for some time and I have to ask, why? Why would we invade yet another country? Haven't we learned?

Public opinion is being swayed by this visit to America by Ahmadinejad. The media is quick to condemn him for his views towards homosexuals, but seriously, that's sharia law, also practiced by Saudi Arabia. Where's the outrage when the Saudi leadership visits? And frankly, how different are those views from fundamentalist groups operating in our nation?

This and other discussions about Iran are not a coincidence, just look at what the Senate voted today:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/26/breaking-lieberman-kyls-iran-amendment-passes/

I can accept Columbia hosting Ahmadinejad simply because he's not part of our country. We study other cultures and how better to do so but by experiencing them face to face. The ROTC is part of our American culture that has not quit discriminating. I think it's a good message to send that we don't want to accept that as what we think America should be.

Ok, maybe you have a problem

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 9:24pm.

Ok, maybe you have a problem with the term enemy, but the guy isn't exactly our penpal. Hopefully we never have to invade Iran, hopefully the UN will grow some teeth and decide to scrap it's nuclear program. Maybe it will happen the next time Ahmad says that Israel needs to be wiped off the map.

Just because saudi arabia thinks it's ok, doesn't make it ok DC. We don't allow the fundamentalist groups in our nation to operate this way, why should the UN allow this guy to do it in Iran? Are you just ok with him killing off Iranian homosexuals? I'm all for embracing different cultures but this guys (and Iran) are f'ing ridiculous.

I'm not ok with anyone

Submitted by DC on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 6:08am.

I'm not ok with anyone killing anyone as a method to force a society to conform.

I'm not an apologist concerning human rights violations in Iran, I'm pointing out how selective the popular media is with who it's casting stones at. There are plenty of countries around the globe doing horrible things to their people. I don't think invasion and war with every country that is different than ours is the solution.

The UN is not the US. It's not there to do the bidding of our administration. Personally, I would support sanctioning Iran, and any country practicing Sharia law for human rights violations. Of course then many other countries would have to be sanctioned as well. The UN is there for diplomatic solutions and that's what should happen here.

Anyway if the UN doesn't place sanctions on Iran, our administration will just abandon it. It's what happened before Iraq, and they've already said they will do it again.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2485358.ece

You said hopefully we'd never have to invade Iran, can you give me a few examples of why we might have to?

The UN still has a combat

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 8:52am.

The UN still has a combat force, if they have to (such as in Darfur) they will send in troops. I'm happy with sanctions, but what happens when they don't do anything? What happens when we KNOW absolutely that they are building a nuclear arsenal and negotiations are no longer working? Huddle around and pray? That would be a reason I could see us invading Iran. Of course that's my personal point of view. If you are talking about our government, I have no idea. With the current administration he could sneeze funny and probably get an invasion.

yes

Submitted by enpen on Thu, 09/27/2007 - 6:50am.

And frankly, how different are those views from fundamentalist groups operating in our nation?

There, is the crux of the problem. We have so many issues of internal strife and suffering we need to address and allay, yet here we militarily straddle the globe seeking to be the world's moral authority. The threat comes from within, and it is due to the severity of the internal threat that the external shadow looms so large.

Well Tsch

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:54pm.

at least we can share some space on the anti-homophobe band wagon. Well Norm, progressive liberal thought and great institutions of higher learning kind of go hand in hand.

Unfortunately I could

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:57pm.

Unfortunately I could probably say the same for radical nutjobs....they are either in great institutions, or part of a militia.

You're not suggesting to be

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 6:10pm.

You're not suggesting to be a great institution you have to be liberal are you?

TESC has a place in this world but it's far from great, in my opinion. I'll reserve that label for the Carnegie Mellon's of the world.

Now Bush has been invited to Iran

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 2:24pm.

Announced today that Bush was invited to speak at a college in Iran.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Reminds me of when National

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 09/28/2007 - 2:45pm.

Reminds me of when National Lampoon ran an article from Iran saying they were just joking about the contract on Salman Rushdie's life, and that if he were to come to such-n-such place in Tehran they actually had an award to present him with.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

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