Olympia seems to be home to a lot of progressive parents, and for the most part I fit right in. I think I'm a fairly non-authoritarian parent, but Olympia is home to such a variety of parenting styles that I've had the chance to observe some VERY non-authoritarian parenting, which has helped to reinforce my belief that setting limits is part of parenting, and must be done. The recent discussion on Olyblog has brought an incident to mind.

A friend of mine was willing to "talk out" pretty much anything with her kid. I am willing to give my daughter a rationale for all of the rules I impose on her, but she can't always hear the rationale again, especially when it's bedtime at issue.

Kids don't like bedtime. I think a little rebellion at bedtime is pretty common. My daughter has heard an explanation of why she needs sleep, and she doesn't get to hear it again every night. When it's bedtime, it's bedtime -- it seems futile to talk about it when we're both tired. My daughter knows that it's useless to try to stall bedtime by a long discussion of its fairness and utility, so when bedtime comes, she knows she has no choice. A friend of mine, though, is willing to discuss the need for bedtime with her kid every time the kid resists. Sometimes these discussions can last an hour, and can be very intrusive for the parents, disrupting their evening plans.

I think if a kid has heard about why bedtime is necessary, and he or she still resists at 9:30 p.m., the discussion should be postponed until morning, when it is unlikely to take place, since it will no longer serve to postpone said bedtime. I don't really see delaying bedtime until the tired child agrees that it is necessary. Possibly, the child will never agree to it. I think sometimes parents just need to turn out the lights and let them fuss in the dark until they fall asleep.

A lot of the recent discussion on Olyblog reminds me of this kind of situation. I don't think we can eliminate trollish behavior if we wait for the kind of people to engage in it to agree to limits. They're not going to. They're going to kick and scream about unfairness, holding themselves up as standards for integrity, and perhaps wanting to discuss THAT, on and on and on and on.

I think Olyblog should be inclusive, but I don't think we should expect to reach consensus on behavioral standards. Some people will throw a wrench in the process for as long as the process continues. Because that's what they are -- wrench throwers. I think they need to be told that it's bedtime -- end of discussion. If they want to fuss about unfairness, let them fuss -- or leave. Really, how unfair is it to subject them to behavior expectations at a site they come to voluntarily? I think it makes sense to end the discussion now, prevail upon the docents to maintain certain behavioral standards, and let anyone who doesn't like the rules go play in another playground.