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Submitted by security_six on Tue, 05/13/2008 - 11:36pm.
Letter from Inside the Black Bloc Infoshop.org Black Blocs for Dummies Interesting, and sometimes disturbing stuff here. Perhaps we should count ourselves lucky that only a few windows were broken... Most of these pages are pretty pro black bloc. I had a hard time finding pages about resisting, infiltrating, or eliminating black blocs.
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"Most folks I know who have
Submitted by v4mp1r3 on Wed, 05/14/2008 - 1:27pm.Agent Provacateurs
Submitted by memetic_alchemy on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 7:36pm.Proof?
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 10:45pm.Documented evidence? Any? Thanks.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"Did you not watch the video I posted the other day
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 11:24pm.No
Submitted by security_six on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 11:48pm.The anti scripting stuff I have in my browser blocks videos sometimes, and I usually don't catch them.
At any rate, sometimes the groups are infiltrated, does that mean ALL of them are, and ALL of their tactics are suspect? Read their own literature. They are cowardly vandals plain and simple looking to create mayhem. Excusing their actions by saying a criminal group is infiltrated is silly.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"?
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 05/15/2008 - 11:56pm.They are cowardly vandals plain and simple looking to create mayhem.
Is life really that simple for you? For a person so intent on dispelling labels and ignorance some of your off hand remarks make my eyes cross.
Mimetic's point isn't that every single instance is infiltrated, it's that the strategy is always infiltrated at least once which has profoundly negative repercussions for the strategy as a whole.
"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."
- Yoda
This is how I see it
Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/16/2008 - 9:18pm.Black Blocs exist (by their own admitance) to create problems. They wear masks and commit various acts of civil disobedience or violence. I consider hiding behind a mask while engaged in protest to be cowardly.
Now the rights to peaceably assemble and protest are very well protected. If one is not intent on breaking the law and is willing to show up and protest, why hide your face? If one wants to throw rocks and break things, there is very good reason to hide your face.
It is the hiding of one's face while engaging in violent acts I consider cowardly.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"there's an empathy problem
Submitted by enpen on Fri, 05/16/2008 - 10:47pm.And the language you're using (without realizing it?) comes to you from a culture steeped in cowboy bravado archetypes. I certainly wouldn't ask you to agree with people doing this (that would be like me asking somebody to agree that Capitalism is good for humanity) but to go from acknowledging "(i)f one wants to throw rocks and break things, there is very good reason to hide your face" to saying it's cowardly is forcing an Empire State Building piece into a Grand Canyon puzzle. These are people who disagree with a system to the extent that they believe lawful protests no longer work. Making it easy for themselves to be caught up by that system would be stupid not brave.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
So I should
Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/16/2008 - 11:04pm.Comiserate with them while I doge glass shards?
Violence isn't the answer until it is done by those with anarchist leanings?
First off I don't believe their tactics are appropriate. Therefore, their actions, hiding their faces, and destroying things are not appropriate.
Furthermore, given the nature of their actions, one could argue masked people in a protest could be a threat or a sign of danger.
Now I'm all for exercising rights, but when the exercise of that is a deliberate form of harassment...
And the black bloc use the masks partly to conceal their identity and partly as a tool of intimidation and harassment.
I'm all for masked protesting, until they start becoming part of illegal actions.
Given the broad and careful free speech protections in this state's constitution, I would argue that there be no effort made to make masked protesting illegal, but given the greater threat they pose, I would suggest great penalties for rioting or destruction of property while masked and while part of a protest group. Similar to the greater penalties for armed robbery vs unnarmed robbery.
What do YOU propose doing about them?
I understand what it is they do, and why they do it. It does not make it any more correct.
But hey, who cares. They are a fringe element, and fringe elements, especially ones that burble about the evils of capitalism, or whatever the leftist fringe is excited over that week seem to tolerated in Oly. One goes from empathizing with their reasons and actions, to ignoring their presence. Then something blows up...
I believe it is cowardly to protest masked. If you have something to say, take responsibility for your statements.
If you want to destroy property it makes sense to mask yourself, it also is a form of intimidation, and a carefully calculated one at that.
I've got more to say on the subject, but it is more opinion than fact, and I am researching a fact piece on the BB, and will put that on my website, with an opinion piece seperate.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"sometimes I'm all about the Jesus
Submitted by enpen on Fri, 05/16/2008 - 11:36pm.If you live in a society that exists on the back of a military then I think you resign yourself to violence. What would I do? Suffocate'em with love.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
Chew on this...
Submitted by security_six on Fri, 05/16/2008 - 11:46pm."What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to
prevent the establishment of a standing army,
the bane of liberty." Rep. Elbridge Gerry of
Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress at 750 (August
17, 1789)
Now consider the "militia clauses" so many states still have. Consider the National Guard is a recent invention. Consider that there was a time when the able bodied citizens of a town, county and state took their own defense into their own hands, and the Federal Government maintained a navy, a small professional army, and some marines. Consider that the Sheriff of a county as the chief law officer has enormous powers and can restrict outside agencies from acting in his county.
Time to get rid of the National Guard and return the true authority to The People and the several states.
Imagine no national guard. How hard would it be to raise troops to go overseas? Given the current war, governors under the old system would be able to refuse to send troops outside of their border, and even refuse to allow their militias to be called up.
Look into the matter. Slowly rights and powers are being stripped away. The true military power in this country should be the local militias. The county sheriff provides oversight of law enforcement activities, and the Governor controls the state troops. The army should be a small highly trained group, and some reserves.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"
Well...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 12:32am.I'm not sure the black bloc isn't sympathetic to or inconsistant with that sentiment.
I would debate that
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 6:56am.The militia is supposed to broadly be the people in general, and capable, although not required to, just capable of organzing into such a fashion as to create a military force. I do not believe the black bloc qualifies in that regards, plus there is no public oversight of the BB as there is of the militia.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"militia and the republic
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 11:38pm.Gary Hart, in one of the most interesting books I've ever read, makes essentially the same point. If we can't rise to the common defense, if we download the basic roal of citizen (to protect each other), how are we a Republic?
Debate what?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 9:41am.They are inconsistent
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 7:35pm.With the notion of a citizen militia as envisioned, planned for and practiced in the earlier days of this nation. They are a criminal group, nothing more.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"Nothing more?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 8:26pm.I'm not with
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 05/17/2008 - 8:36pm.Any militia, so there is no "your militia".
Criminals often have undue influence. How many European trade confrences have you organized?
There are more anarchist and militant socialist groups in Europe as well, which may have something to do with the BB's influence.
Given the nature of my conversation, let us say I was referring to stuff going on in the United States.
Confucius Say-"He who need inquire if safe with one in pipe, ask loaded question!"off topic, but
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 05/18/2008 - 10:07am.