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Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 5:12pm.
Really? Do animals deserve the same rights as people? Do animals deserve the same access to space that people do? Humans consume alot of stuff, the least being space that other species could use--
» Why is killing an animal "not as bad" as killing a person? I see no commitment by anyone in Olympia to "make space" for animal issues-- Humans & animals deserve the same access to clean water, habitat, and food resources-- I ponder why "we" (us & the animals) do not work more together, towards these similar goals --I wonder what keeps the animals from showing up to all the meetings... Who on our city council is representing the wildlife and other animals? I'm curious where others are: I'm pretty much in support of animal rights-- I'd be all for closing the downtown to autos to encourage pedestrian use/dog walking, and to make space for animal habitat, like trees... I'd even support "community animals"...pets for us all that are supported just for the sake of it-- Imagine having horses to ride to Capital Forest (or just to feed & groom), and animals to interact with daily... Now that would be a great use of public funds!
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I am very much in support of
Submitted by Chia on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 11:08pm.I am very much in support of animal rights, Chad, and I commend your courage in bringing up a topic which often meets with hostility, even in the progressive movement. It is the most often overlooked social justice issue with overwhelming consequences to the sentient beings of our community who are seen as objects and used and victimized accordingly.
Again, kudos to your courage! :)
I miss my cat.
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:43am.I wish more folks were bonkers over animals like I am, and that we'd look-out more just like we wished others would look out more for our special pets...sorta a "do unto other animals as you'd want done unto yours" kind deal...does that make sense?
It makes perfect sense. And
Submitted by Chia on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 11:08pm.Rhetorical or....
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 11:57pm.Really? Do animals deserve the same rights as people? Do animals deserve the same access to space that people do?
Do you want an answer, or is this strictly an opening to the thread?
Remember the simple rules.
Submitted by Bricks Jesmin on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 4:44pm.Also remember from Rick to "leave it to someone else to make your case. See what happens with a discussion without the influence of direct criticism. Let others work out some of the bugs of an idea before you jump on it" In other words leave the talking to us. Thank You.
A question was asked, I
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 5:37pm.A question was asked, I asked if the thread starter wanted it answered, or if it was a rhetorical question. I'm not sure how my question is instructive or corrective.
As Rick says conversation is about trust and if people disagree they cannot trust and good conversation has no room for disagreement or the subsequent lack of trust.
Rick said that? if people disagree they cannot trust and good conversation has no room for disagreement?
In other words leave the talking to us.
Awfully inclusive aren't we?
Who are you?
Rick also say....
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:43am.Asking questions (not rhetorically) is probably the best approach, and I recommend it as an alternative to "telling."
You'll notice that my comment in the thread, before your comment, was a question, was not rhetorical, and was an alternative to "telling".
RE: "In other words leave the talking to us. Thank You."
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 6:02pm.Bricks,
This is a messed up thing to say to Norm.
Im no expert, but I dont think he was being critical.
I also dont see how disagreeing is a bad thing, and I dont remember anyone else suggesting that either.
"Comments are not to instruct or correct"
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 8:17am.Care to comment on animal rights? Do you have an ANSWER? ...is there just one for each question?
is there an answer?
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 8:06am.My opinion
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 7:33pm.I think you brought up a good subject.
I'm not much of an animal lover. I've had animals, they were great companions, but they have all died and I no longer feel any desire to have a "pet". I don't blame others for wanting pets, they are certainly therapeutic for some people, and if that works, that is great.
With that in mind I think it's better to let people who are more passionate about this subject to hash it out. For the most part, if they aren't biting me, animals are fine. Other than that I think of them as potential food
Hmm..
Submitted by Summerisle on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 6:22am.Farmer's Market cats
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 12:12am.Who lives? Who dies? Who get served for lunch?
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 4:04pm.I am still eating meat, not much, but a little, and I am having increasing trouble eating meat in formats that I can recognize as an animal - a bbq chicken still probably tastes as good as it ever did, but I find myself picking at it with a fork and thinking about it as a once-living being and wondering about a chicken's experience of the world? How did I come to be there as a human being with a fork and how did this being come to arrive in front of me as a chicken carcass?
I can't eat shrimp anymore. And I used to love shrimp.
So, that's my experience - a gradual and inexorable move toward identifying with the other sentient beings and a gradual and inexorable sense that I have to change my ways to make more room for the other beings. This experience and movement in my life is not intellectual, it is more what I would understand as a "felt sense."
Thanks for asking these questions.
thanks...
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 11:55am.Animals
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 12:24pm.I think that doing what is best for animals - and by animals I mean all animals, including pets, humans and wildlife - is a set of interrelated actions and policies.
I think human lives have more value, intrinsically than some, if not all, animal life. Human beings have the capacity for great spirituality, and emotion. I think most animals have emotions, but in terms of spirit, other animals (besides humans) are limited to varying degrees. For example, a fish has less spirit than a dog, which has less spirit than a humpback whale, etc. But this view and argument shows the inherent egotism that comes with being the member of a specie. I think it is valuable to move beyond self-centered perspectives.
Do I think arguing over which animal has the most spirit or is most valuable? - Certainly not.
The important thing to realize here is that we are all connected. We belong to an interconnected system that makes all life on earth a community. Indeed in a larger sense, we are part of a Universal community.
I think that the way to go is to treat all animals, all beings, and all existence, with respect.
In the Course of Events
caiman as well? >grin<
Submitted by chad360 on Fri, 03/02/2007 - 2:10am.Regarding "spirit & capacity"; ideas you mentioned...
What about vacuum potential? --small spaces with unlimited energies
It is all about gauge theory, and at what scale are we sentient...
...is size/complexity related to spirit, "angels on a pinhead and all"?
I have been contemplating the little, super small black ants that hang-out with me, they teach me about recycling, and help when they can...they are so super!
I wonder what it is like for them? The ultimate VR sim, be an animal for a day...
so "once & future king"
Once and Future King
Submitted by Mike on Fri, 03/02/2007 - 7:55am.