|
|
||
|
Navigation User login Who's online There are currently 0 users and 15 guests online.
Support OlyBlog OlyBlog is run by volunteers who care about Olympia. If you like what we're doing, make a donation: Who's new
|
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Thu, 10/12/2006 - 7:01am.
[bumped to the front page by Rick] It seems to me that the voices claiming that downtown Olympia is such a terrible place are very similar to the voices that got us into this war in Iraq. The lead up to the war had the administration trotting out for public display any voice that would claim that Iraq had these weapons of mass destruction and they were pointed at Podunk, Iowa. So we got the war, killed plenty of people. Of course there were no weapons of mass destruction. So we now have all these voices saying how terrible downtown Olympia is. Between politicians, business people, writers to the comments section of the Olympian, and reporters for the Olympian. All these voices that say downtown Olympia is awful. But really, downtown Olympia is terrific. Most of the people that I know that see it for the first time love it. They love it even more after continued exposure. So we have this disconnect. What people are trying to portray downtown Olympia as and the real truth about downtown Olympia, and that is that it is a very successsful downtown with a distinct personality and unique mix of mostly locally owned businesses. Our downtown is populated with a diverse mixture of people that add to the life of downtown. So if it is not the weapons of mass destruction, or in this case the horribly unsafe conditions of downtown, it must be that the people that are making the claims are actually going for regime change. The short story is that big business does not like little business. Big business would give us Applebys, Red Lobster, and the Gap downtown. They would give us sterile shopping districts that would be vacated after closing time. Big business would give us the illusion of safety without actually providing safety. I'll say that again, they would give us the illusion of safety without providing actual safety. Huh? Remove the panhandlers, remove the young street people, remove the interesting characters that populate the downtown area and you would have the illusion of safety. No panhandlers, no bums, no mentally ill people wandering around and all will proclaim that downtown is safe. I hope by now that you know better than that. What we will have is a void in our town after hours, the void will be filled by those that really pose a safety threat to the downtown. Where street life doesn't exist you have the increased potential for trouble. Couple that with the sterility of the businesses that would take the place of our local businesses and you have an environment that is so without humanity that it would drive the most pious to a life of crime. What we have in downtown is what will make it better. We are well aware that there are people in downtown that need help. Unlike most downtowns I believe that our downtown can do this in the most humane and meaningful way. I say that because I believe that even the poorest of our community are worthy of inclusion in our community. I believe that they may be capable of making the most profound of contributions to our community. Make no mistake, what is going on is not unlike the run up to the Iraq war. They are saying one thing, but you know what they really want, and that is regime change. Yes we have a war on our hands. It is a war against the poor. It is a war against the small business person that makes our town unique. There is a war because downtown Olympia stands for what big business doesn't. Couple that with the fact that downtown Olympia sits on some very desirable and valuable real estate and you can hear the war machines cranking up.
|
OlyBlog.net OlyBlog is devoted to citizen journalism, including hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. If you care about this community and are tired of corporate media, then this is the place for you. If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. Once you've established a record of responsible blogging, you can become an autonomous user. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here. Latest Classified Ads Upcoming events
|
hey wait a second...
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 10/12/2006 - 9:50am."If you are a dreamer, come in. If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, a hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer. If you're a pretender, come sit by my fire, for we have some flax-golden tales to spin. Come in! Come in!"
I hear you, Crenshaw. I
Submitted by Mike on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 7:39am.I think these folks are working to create a cultural meme that has little or no connection to the facts on the ground for reasons of their own. I am sick of it. I think it's dishonest and self-serving.
But I am heading to the Oregon coast for a couple of days so I leave you all to sort it out. Thanks for calling it what it is. It's a solution searching for a problem. Terraforming, dupontification. Who needs it?
Come on....
Submitted by Nicki on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 6:14pm.the Procession of the Feces
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 6:51pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
I would be curious about the
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 8:52pm.I would be curious about the statistics of those who are homeless and are either from Olympia and lost their employment in Olympia in comparison to those who have migrated to Olympia and lost their job outside of Olympia.
I've always heard there's a significant population which is not from Olympia, I just wonder whether it's statistically true or not.
at the crossroads
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 9:45pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Y'know, I think the only
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 9:53pm.It makes all of the
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 10:14pm.It makes all of the difference when individuals from other cities (and even states) are coming into Olympia seeking to use our public resources.
Economically it's not sound policy to maintain a steady influx of people who are only adding more bodies which are only subtracting from resources. Unless the amount of those taking from the system is being offset by an equal number contributing to the system, you will eventually find yourself further in the red than you want to be.
This is why I think there is a large push to make businesses "pay their fair share." It's not that it's their "fair share," it's that it's becoming more and more necessary to take more from those who have done financially well for themselves in order to offset the numbers who are not contributing toward paying for the resources they are using.
How's this for a start.
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Fri, 10/13/2006 - 10:52pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
you don't say
Submitted by enpen on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 7:11am."If you are a dreamer, come in. If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, a hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer. If you're a pretender, come sit by my fire, for we have some flax-golden tales to spin. Come in! Come in!"
Yunos deserves a statue in Sylvester Park
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 8:26am."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
alternate realities
Submitted by enpen on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 7:16am."If you are a dreamer, come in. If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, a hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer. If you're a pretender, come sit by my fire, for we have some flax-golden tales to spin. Come in! Come in!"
Bullshit
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 10:21am.Here's the numbers.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 11:19am.There's a lot of phoney-baloney out there about the homeless, and the myths benefit particular people in Olympia. We don't take care of our neighbors here. And when our neighbors wind up homeless we persecute them. Then we justify our behavior with half-cocked bullshit urban legends that make the homeless out to be some kind of roaming, leeching, violent criminals.
It's not just public officials and merchants who do this either. Social services are just as much to blame. If Jesus walked into our town today, begging for a cup of water, he'd be asked for an ID, birth date, and social security number. Then he'd be given a referral to a job search agency. Then he'd be logged into a computer to make sure that the next time he asked for water he'd be turned away. Only after all that, he'd be given a thimble sized dixie cup of water.
Lately I've been having a really hard time believing that people don't suck.
For the record...
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 3:23pm.Aren't the state rest-stop
Submitted by Norm on Sat, 10/14/2006 - 3:27pm.I guess the Quakers are bigots too?
Submitted by Nicki on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 1:36pm.I have been offering
Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 2:00pm.I am also amused that you would pull an article about troubles at a Quaker church in Seattle as a way of making a point about who homeless people are here. Tell me, do you know any homeless people here? If so, how long have you known them, and how much time have you spent with them? Only ignorance can breed the kind of comments you made above.
I don't know the circumstances of the decision made by the Seattle Friends Meeting. Nonetheless, I am disappointed and disheartened by it, as I am sure they are. I attended the Olympia Friends Meeting for a little over a year, and both my parents were brought up in Quaker schools. The Friends are generally good people, and would not come to a decision like this lightly. I also suspect that they would not appreciate your use of their decision to promote your anti-homeless propaganda.
Better to remain silent be though a...
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 2:21pm.So the lesson begins. The homeless follow the law of the streets. That is what keeps them alive. And most, despite the odds against them, do a fairly good job of it. Bear that in mind "the law of the streets". No person can survive life on the streets without understanding how this law works and the homeless would be fools to think that following your rules would help them. You bring up the Quakers and bigotry, all you are doing is to justify your own bigotry by making reference to the acts of others, in this case the Quakers. I'm sure the Quakers don't live by the law of the streets. I would hope the Quakers would treat the homeless with compassion and respect. The homeless are resourceful and smart. They do their best to survive and to ease the pains of their existence. Give the homeless the credit they deserve for their survival skills, give the homeless the respect for being human. Give the homeless a chance to do better for themselves, not by creating the Nicki rules for them, but by giving them the opportunities to exit homelessness via empowering opportunities and welcoming, inclusive communities. "The law of the streets", worth remembering. No progress can be made towards solving the problems of homelessness until this is understood and the individuals that are homeless are treated with respect. Calling them "uncivilized" is not respectful, but I guess that is the point of bigotry.
"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Heh
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 3:02pm.That's one of my fave's
"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
Apparently you misunderstood
Submitted by Nicki on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 3:28pm.sometimes people will just make your point for you
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 3:46pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Walked into it
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 3:52pm.The point being made was that you can't break it down into "civilized" or "uncivilized" because the "Laws of the Street" (Rules of Survival, whatever tag you want to apply) are the only thing, as humans, those who are homeless are concerned with. When in a survival situation, it's the only thing nearly any of us would be concerned with.
Basically, the way mom and dad taught you to act in public does not apply because it's a different set of conditions in which the individual is being subjected to.
I don't know whether I agree that being homeless in the United States is so desperate a situation that one has to adbandon any and all regard for social norms in order to survive, but if I've been following correctly (and I'll admit, I've just been skimming through) that's the point being made by Crenshaw.
Who?
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 4:19pm.Nicki
Submitted by Jade on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 8:41pm."I, as well as most people, do not object to the homeless per se. What is objectionable is the way these people act..."
You say that you don't have a problem with the homeless but with "these people's" behaviors. If you don't have a bigotry problem, why are you referring to them as "these people"? Do think the homeless go to the Downtown Olympia Homeless Caucus together and agree to all consistently act a certain way in downtown Olympia?
If the homeless grouped the middle class together the way you are grouping them together, it would not paint a pretty picture of the middle class. After all, "these people" pour ice water on the homeless on cold winter nights, light them on fire in their sleeping bags, compare them to dogs, bugs, garbage, shit, and dirt, use them for sex, call the police to have them "removed" from their sidewalk like a piece of litter, and enact legislation punishing all homeless people for the alleged misbehaviors of a few. I wonder if the homeless had political power if they would create an ordinance banning "nuisance behaviors" such as honor student bumper stickers, car alarms, wifi, and the sale of expensive cocktails in downtown.
You make the arrogant claim that you would not behave "that way" if you were homeless. Of course, the truth is you have no idea how you would behave if you were homeless. Even if you became homeless, you would have no idea what someone else's experience of homelessness was. But suppose you are right. Maybe you would be a nice homeless person. You wouldn't be the first or the only. And then you would have the experience of listening to people say things like "I don't hate the homeless. Its just that THESE PEOPLE blah blah blah" and they wouldn't listen to you or notice you or care about you and your story thoughts because you'd BE one of "these people".
It appears that University Meeting had the same bigotry problem as you have. How unfortunate that they viewed problem behaviors as being "these people", and used it as a justification to be stingy with their property. I'm sure I am not the only Quaker who disagrees with their decision.
Its true that there is that of God in everyone. There is also selfishness and bigotry in everyone, even Quakers.
Jade
Ok, so let's go about this
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 8:54pm.I would say, honestly, that many, MANY of the people you see downtown are not homeless, it just happens to be that they hang out downtown. That being said, all of the unruly behaviors you speak of in your previous posts(s) also happen to be problems among the middle class who live in a home. They also tend to be aired out in public, particularly while drinking. Also, just because society has rules does not mean that all people will follow those rules. Remember "the war on drugs" ? Didn't amount to much did it?
So with some of these thoughts in mind ( don't get defensive on me here ) what do you think would be the best way to approach these issues? Do you think people should look beyond the exterior and maybe find out how many of these folks downtown are actually homeless? As I stated earlier does it make a difference if they have a home or not if they act the way they do? Would it be better to try and create more opportunity for the folks who ARE homeless to get back on their feet, or should we enact a few more laws and put more people into our already WAY overcrowded jail? I would also ask how old you are. The only reason I would ask that is so many, MANY of these behaviors are displayed inside drinking establishments also. The world isn't always a pretty place and these are mere symptoms of a bigger problem...I really don't think throwing a band-aid on a sucking chest wound is going to help much at this point.
So take a look at those, just think about it. I'm not asking you to change your mind, I agree that some behavior displayed downtown is not very polite, but there are many places that are like that and 99% of those places don't cater to the homeless. I just want you to wonder if there is more to the story.
Norm
So, just answer me one
Submitted by Nicki on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 5:31pm.Will some one please buy Nicki a Clue
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 6:31pm.I've never implied that Nicki was an idiot, that would be disrespectful to those that have this psychological label placed upon them. I did say Nicki was ignorant, and sadly Nicki remains ignorant. Every post just furthers Nicki's bigotry of the homeless. Please Nicki, you are doing yourself no favors continuing to post on this subject. You just can not defend bigotry. Don't even bother.
"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Ok Crenshaw, I'm going to
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 6:59pm.Norm
Constructive criticism
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 8:01pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Your being mean-spirited
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 8:17pm.Norm
Thanks, dog.
Submitted by Rick on Mon, 10/16/2006 - 10:06pm.When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
What if it happened to you?
Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 10/17/2006 - 12:41pm.First, I'll say that I've met a number of people who fell into homelessness from middle or working class lives, and who held similar opinions about the homeless as Nicki apparently does. Some of them very, very quickly changed their opinions. Others maintained a self-righteous attitude. "I'm not like those others...", they will say. These folks are often the rudest and most selfish among the street community, refusing to share what they have and refusing to make friends with the people around them. They also are the people who have the greatest sense of entitlement, who take great insult at the fact that the system doesn't do enough to help them. Looking down upon the homeless and "these people's" behaviors is a sin of pride. Unfortunately, even the most humbling circumstances fail to eradicate that pride.
I'd also like to quote Jade for a moment here, "After all, 'these people' pour ice water on the homeless on cold winter nights, light them on fire in their sleeping bags, compare them to dogs, bugs, garbage, shit, and dirt, use them for sex, call the police to have them 'removed' from their sidewalk like a piece of litter, and enact legislation punishing all homeless people for the alleged misbehaviors of a few."
This, Nicki, is how you will be treated if you become homeless. Now, please tell me again how you would behave?
Just one more thing...
Submitted by Nicki on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:27am.First of all, I am not, nor have I ever been, a person who would do such things to anyone, homeless, or otherwise. If you had read what I said earlier, which you obviously have not, I said I have no issue with HOMELESS people per se. What I have an issue with is, people, homeless, street people, wayward youth, local residents maybe, whatever you want to call these folks, exhibiting unacceptable behavior. For instance, making rude and discussing comments at passersby, or staggering around drunk, or slashing people’s tires while they are dining downtown, or conducting drug transactions in plain sight of children walking in the downtown area, or punching people out while they are trying to open their car doors, or even punching out the police that come to the aid of those people, things like that. I consider these acts, at the least, disrespectful. I feel that the gentle people with no homes have rights just like you and me. They absolutely do, never said they didn’t. And, I do respect those that respect me, but if someone insults me why do I have to be subjected to that or tolerate it? Oh, or is that one of those ‘Rules of the Street’, let’s see, rule #346 maybe? I can be unruly and obnoxious, but because I’m hanging around on the street doing nothing, nobody is allowed to get mad at me for how I feel like acting. Why can’t the people who own shops downtown and their patrons expect some respect, as well. That is what I am complaining about.
So, it seems apparent that you feel that some of the people without jobs that frequent the downtown area are helpless? Of course there are some people that are there because they want to live this way. We all know that, but I’m talking about the ones that are really there because they made a bad choice at some point in their lives, or someone else made a bad choice and they have ended up jobless and homeless. If you are saying that these people desperately want help and can’t find it in this community then you must consider them stupid. Therefore, you are the bigot. And you are being bigoted against these very people that you say you want to defend. There are many places that will lend a helping hand to people in need. They will be given clothes for job interviews, and food, and a place to stay. So, then why are they on the streets? Enlighten me, oh, great teacher.
Homelessness and joblessness are sad situations, but they are something that one can recover from if one puts ones efforts into it. We live in country that will help anyone. Why do you suppose so many people do anything they can to get here. Being poor in this country is not great, but poor people in this country are so much better off then poor people around the world.
For instance, making rude
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:39am.For instance, making rude and discussing comments at passersby, or staggering around drunk, or slashing people’s tires while they are dining downtown, or conducting drug transactions in plain sight of children walking in the downtown area, or punching people out while they are trying to open their car doors, or even punching out the police that come to the aid of those people, things like that.
I'm afraid you won't listen to the messenger if it came from someone else, but you do realize many of these activities also stem from the bars downtown, right?
Granted, the major problem bar had their license revoked (or whatever is happening with the whole Bar Code situation), but I think if you went to the police department and asked where the majority of their problems come from, they would say downtown in general.
I'm fairly certain it's equal amount homeless population and another part college-kids (I think we've weeded out the Tacoma population, for now) who come to Olympia.
Nicki
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 12:45pm.While people who experience homelessness seem to be about as diverse as the rest of society, one thing I have found is that people on the streets are generally very resourceful, resilient, and courageous. They have to be to survive.
You say, "We live in country that will help anyone." This is a flat falsehood. If you became disabled today, you could go to DSHS tomorrow, and in about a month you'd start getting a check. That check would amount to $339 per month. I'd really like to see your strategy for living on $339 a month. True, you could apply for social security, but it would take you about two years and an attorney to get it. Then, if you were working poor prior to becoming disabled, you could count on getting a check each month for about $600. In the mean time, you'd be shamed by nearly every social service agency you came into contact with, called dirty names by pedestrians, harrassed by the police, and you'd probably be raped. If you complain about this treatment, you will be called an ingrate, and be told that "We live in a country that will help anyone."
One last note. Your attempt to turn the tables and point the "bigotry" finger at others doesn't work. I've got two folks living in my home whom we offered a place to stay because they were in need. I'm the founder of Bread & Roses' advocacy program. Yesterday I spent my evening building a bed for our womens shelter (which is directly next door to my home), and followed that up with baking 3 homemade apple pies for the guests at the shelter and in our home.
I'm doing my part for my neighbors. When are you going to start doing yours?
Also
Submitted by Nicki on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:29am.I will refrain
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 6:56am."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Actually, I only stated
Submitted by Nicki on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 7:53am.Oh yeah, I forgot
Submitted by Nicki on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 7:56am.