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Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 8:52am.
Susan Hettinger wrote an Opinion piece in today's Olympian about our wonderful downtown Olympia. I wish I had more faith in their future coverage, but at least we're seeing some positive press.
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Susan Hettinger has it right...
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 10:32am.A solid contribution on her part..
Too bad Mike Oakland has it wrong..
He and the other editors seem to want to bash Downtown Olympia any chance they get..
People like Mike Oakland and his cronies would like nothing better than to see Downtown Olympia turned into another Auburn or Lacey (drab and devoid of culture)
Thank you Susan for pointing out how utterly stupid and out of touch that way of thinking is..
Take Off Your Blinders
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 11:40am.There's always ways to improve. To say downtown is all it can be would be foolish. There are many things to love about downtown and there are things that NEED to change. Please don't allow your love and acceptance of downtown (as it is today) to speak for everyone.
Bubbaz your comment isn't worth much the way it comes across.
Hettinger is a citizen contributor - one person's view and they happen to agree with you, so what?
I agree with EG here.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 11:58am.“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
That's twice in 3 days -
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 12:02pm.?
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:05pm.As I said to E.G., nobody said that we can't do better. I think, rather, the underlining message is more akin to 'beware which path you choose for better, lest you make it worse.'
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
word
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 2:02pm.“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
Class War?
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 2:05pm.Class War?
OK..
word squared
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 10:53pm."I am, however, tired of mainstream liberals who do a lot of talking about rights, human and otherwise, but refuse to target the system."
Yeah...really need to find a good time so that we can finally grab a few beers together.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Middle Class French join Sleep-in over Homelessness
Submitted by Mike on Fri, 01/05/2007 - 7:40am.The Jan 2nd article in the NYT about the homeless in France indicated that the homeless count in France is about 86,000, roughly the same number of homeless in LA. And the community response to the homeless in France is the distribution of the tents and a public demonstration of folks who have homes to join the homeless in their tents in the middle of a an affluent neighborhood.
Turning downtown Oly into an upscale bohemian neighborhood where fewer of the bohemians can afford to live, or sit or lie down on the sidewalk has little appeal to me. The statistics on crime and livability indicate that downtown Olympia is both vibrant and affordable right now. I am pleased that someone at the O has recognized that fact.
Just to clarify
Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 01/05/2007 - 9:30am.I completely agree with you on housing. I've been tilting at that windmill with the city for a while now.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
US Housing Policy
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 01/06/2007 - 9:10am.The french may have a more sensible housing approach than the US, but how many countries have they managed to invade and occupy in recent memory?
The military has loosened its standards a bit over the past few years because of enlistment problems. Maybe mandatory conscription of people sitting and sleeping on the sidewalks will provide the human fodder needed for a "surge" in Iraq, plus it would beautify Olympia!
Moves like the "beautify Olympia" no sitting ordinance are part of a militarist world view whether the supporters of such ordinances understand it or not.
RE: "Bubbaz your comment isn't worth much the way it.."
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 12:58pm.Using my comments above EH,
Give an example of what you are talking about..
My comment is based on fact..
The Olympian Editorial board has been unfairly bashing Downtown Olympia..
No blinders here..
Please dont misconstrue..
eh?
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:02pm."To say downtown is all it can be would be foolish."
I have to admit, I was a little confused when I first read your response. Neither did I recall having ever stated that downtown is as good as it can get, nor did I recall seeing a like statement in Susan Hettinger's article. So, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I returned to her article once again, reread it and, sure enough, nothing of the sort is present. In fact, all she did say that even resembled what you state is that the franchise colonization of downtown would make it worse, not better (some paraphrasing on my account). Now I have to ask you, why the mischaracterization? What interest does that serve?
Yes, there are things that need to change. People's classist attitudes being right near the top, in addition to the demolition of that burnt out building on 4th (future tent city site?). The development of a civically supported arts space would be another great way to see to the long term health of downtown (disclosure: I freely admit my bias and direction of energies regarding this matter).
"Please don't allow your love and acceptance of downtown (as it is today) to speak for everyone."
Oh believe me, I do not believe my opinions are universally shared. I've read the vitriol in the Olympian's Holoscan, I heard people tell our Council about their problems with our Sans domicile fixe and I'm against wealthfare, so I suffer from no delusions regarding the difference of my opinion from many others. I am, however, well trained to spot the difference between a bogus and a good argument, and Susan Hettinger's is one of the first good arguments about our downtown I've seen between the Olympian's pages since moving here.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Really? She didn't say
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:17pm.from the Olympian?
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:27pm."She didn't say anything we haven't already heard."
As The Olympian is currently the primary source of news in our city, what they choose to report or ignore is greatly responsible for the 'informed' reasoning about local issues by our fellow citizens. That being said, please point me to the last Olympian article that shines a light on the positives of our downtown rather than perceived negatives.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Primary, yes; only, no.
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:44pm.Primary, yes; only, no. I've heard much better here on Olyblog - she may have even read them to form her opinion.
I think this article is positive (you may see it differently) and it's not an opinion. http://www.theolympian.com/112/story/50882.html
But, we've been here before. Beating heads. I just wanted to point out that I didn't see her opinion as something new or ground-breaking. If you are certain downtown is headed in the right direction, I'm glad for you, I see it differently.
?
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 2:55pm."But, we've been here before. Beating heads. I just wanted to point out that I didn't see her opinion as something new or ground-breaking."
Certainly her opinion isn't new and ground breaking for OlyBlog, and yes a lot of it looks as if it could've come from here. What is new is that it was outright praise for our downtown in the Olympian. Seriously, had I moved here and only been exposed to the Olympian my opinion would be that all of Olympia thinks downtown is a violent cesspool where one literally has to run from building to building to remain safe. And no I'm not certain downtown is headed in the right direction, in fact, given the recent sidewalk ordinance passing I'm very worried that it's doing the exact opposite; that our City leaders are setting the stage to welcome corporate chains whose interest in Olympia is only how to best get our money while giving back as little as possible.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
I only wish you could have
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 3:22pm.I only wish you could have seen downtown Olympia 10-12 years ago vs. today. It has changed in good ways and in bad. I'm of the opinion that the bad outshines the good and we've done little to change the direction. I don't see the homeless as a problem, but part of a solution that anyone with governmental capabilities has yet to tackle. Too bad and so sad.
Corporate chains can't afford Olympia. Not only in money but in problems (attitude). That's fine - I don't need corporate chains as part of my downtown shopping experience. I really don't think they'd survive anyway. <sarcasm>If I can't find it at Capital City Guitar, I can burn a ton of petro into the atmosphere on my way to the 38th Street Guitar Center in Tacoma (or order it online and let the planes and brown trucks do it for me).</sarcasm>
Remember, as part of the citizen contribution opinion board (6 month stint, I think), she's allowed to go over the 250 word LTE limit.
For the most part, I enjoy downtown. But, I'm a 31 year old capable man who doesn't mind confrontation. Not everyone is going to take in the same experiences as you and me when downtown. You can't discount the truths that have been told about downtown. I believe they deserve some attention. I want them to have the same experiences you and I have.
alrighty
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 10:48pm.So judging from your last paragraph I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that too many assumptions have been flying around this commentsation on both of our sides. Rob Richards posted, what I think, is an excellent idea for dealing with the perception issues of downtown Olympia (because by the statistics it doesn't merit the scorn and fear it receives). Rob noticed while walking downtown at night that the lighting sucks. As fear often arises in situations of a perceived loss of control (not being able to use a heavily relied upon sense, for example), Rob's idea seems right. The key is to figure out ways to adjust the false perception so that reality is actually seen rather than to treat the false perception (crime ridden, unable to use the sidewalks, etc.) as reality.
"I only wish you could have seen downtown Olympia 10-12 years ago vs. today. It has changed in good ways and in bad. I'm of the opinion that the bad outshines the good and we've done little to change the direction."
I think the city of Olympia made a few errors around the false assumption that teenagers hinder rather than drive the modern market economy. Per Pat Tassoni's educational post on some downtown Oly history, note that in a five year span (1986-1991) Olympia passed four laws which, if not intended, certainly had the effect of chasing teenagers out of downtown Oly. Having only been to the Capital Mall on a couple of occasions I certainly don't consider my experiences 100% representative; however, in those limited times I noticed a lot of teens. Our downtown isn't starved for dollars because of unfriendly zoning laws, our residents without addresses or even the panhandlers, our downtown is starved for dollars because it's not a very welcome place for our youth, and for that we have our own city to blame.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Auburn vs. Lacey vs. Olympia
Submitted by Domenica the Mouse on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:36pm.Auburn isn't drab and devoid of culture. It has lots of railroads, for one, and that strange little downtown strip. Lacey, on the other hand, doesn't have much.
WOW, I remember that all ages club!
Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 1:49pm.We did some benefits there a bunch of years ago..
Cool place and great people..
The reason I bring up Auburn is because that was the most recent shining example trotted out by the Olympian editors of what Olympia could be under ideal conditions..
There is no price tag that can be put on the community that makes up downtown Olympia..
Its priceless..
And way more valuable (due to scarcity..) than any building or store..
For what it's worth, many of
Submitted by Aaron Mason on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 4:53pm.For what it's worth, many of The Olympian's employees are frequent downtown shoppers, diners, and bar patrons. My fiancee and I, for example, have spent a considerable amount of time and money at The Lemon Grass (best Thai food on the planet as far as I'm concerned), The Spar (may she rest in peace), Plenty! (Monte Cristo.. mmm), and The Fish Bowl (my favorite bar in town... and also the only American beer that you will find in my fridge at home). We regularly meet up with other employees for food and drinks.
Kudos
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/03/2007 - 4:57pm.“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.