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Submitted by Jade on Wed, 11/22/2006 - 2:29pm.
This is my account of what happened at last night's city council meeting regarding downtown "civility" ordinances. It is not a neutral account. This issue is one I feel strongly about. I'm sure if I tried to appear unbiased, my biases would still leak through unintentionally.So I will be frank about them. The ordinances are wrong, and are, I think, part of a harrassment campaign against the homeless, and an attempt by politicians to sell downtown to wealthier, bigger businesses and drive out the smallest businesses,businesses that cater to lower-end clientele, and the diversity of people who use and appreciate downtown who are not the 5th Ave set.

At 5:30, me and my kids joined a group of homeless people and advocates at Bread and Roses on 4th Ave for dinner before the council meeting. The B& R staff and interns were staying late, keeping the center open so that the homeless who wanted to speak at the council meeting would have a dry place to wait until 7pm. Someone who opposed the ordinances sent Bread and Roses a $60 donation for dinner. The advocates were harried (though cheerful) after an already intense ten hour day, and scrambled to find something that could feed this many people on only $60. Like the loaves and fishes, nine fresh, New York style pizzas arrived.

Every corner of the little office was packed with people. A few homeless people who are leaders in the community practised their speeches, and everyone listened attentively. They were captivating. They outlined how the ordinances would affect the poor, talked about the hardships of street life, cited laws already on the books that address problem behaviors, and made a plea for comprehensive solutions to the problems of poverty, such low-income and transitional housing, and the much-needed day center in Olympia. Then the leaders reminded everyone to be respectful of all the speakers at the meeting.

At 6:30, the band left to walk through the downpour to city hall. I took a van to drop off the two older kids, and then transport myself, the baby, and a disabled man who couldn't make the walk. I couldn't help but feel that we were a part of something great. An estimated 200 people attended. By seven, there was no room in the council chambers, but many people (including many homeless people) felt strongly enough about the issue that they stood for hours in the cold rain waiting to speak, or to listen in.

120 of those in attendance signed up to speak, for and against. The mayor started with asking that no one use personal attacks during their testimony. He went on with an introduction to the background of the ordinance, which included some disturbing stories like that of a woman living with MS who called to city to complain she was allegedly not allowed to pass some people who were blocking a sidewalk, and that the people jeered at her and made fun of her disability. None of those who's stories were cited were in attendance at the meeting.

The mayor then introduced the three council members who have expressed avid support of the ordinances (Jeff, Joe, and Doug) and made a big show of talking about how much those people care about the homeless, and what just and wonderful individuals they are. He went so far as to call Jeff Kingsbury, "one of the greatest leaders for civil rights in our community". As a longstanding member of the civil rights movement in Olympia, and someone who's known Kingsbury personally for over 15 years, I couldn't help but think that was laughable.

Then he talked about how the ordinances have nothing whatsoever to do with homelessness or poverty, but are concerned with downtown being accessible to all.

The mayor's introduction annoyed me, especially since I have heard from reliable inside sources that the ordinance had its start with Jeff Kingsbury and Joe Hyer (Joe denies this), and preceded any of the incidents that the mayor claimed were the impetus. I felt like the target of a dishonest PR campaign for the ordinances.

According to my own estimation based on those who spoke, the opposition to the ordinance seemed to outnumber those in favor by about 2-3 to 1. Though one speaker in favor claimed that he represented "the silent majority" and that those in support of the ordinance are "not the type to come to a city council meeting".

The hearing lasted for 4 hours. 64 speakers who signed up were unable to speak due to time constraints. Monica Peabody, of the Welfare Rights Organizing Coalition asked Mayor Mark Foutch how many were signed up to speak in favor of, and how many to speak in opposition to the ordinances, but the mayor refused to share this information on record.

One of the most telling moments of the council meeting was when Mayor Foutch himself refered to the ordinances as ordinances addressing homelessness issues. I could just imagine the elbows he was getting under the table.(Oops, that wasn't supposed to be the spin, remember, Mark?)

The speakers for the opposition to the ordinance included homeless people, advocates, activists, downtown business owners, former council member Matthew Green, and many who love downtown.

People's responses ranged from legal, to sensible, to technical, to impassioned, to humorous, to heart-wrenching, to sarcastic. I signed up to speak, but ended up taking the baby home early, because I couldn't think of a single thing to add to the testimony I had heard.

Speakers in favor included downtown business owners, and Olympia residents who don't go downtown, as well as a few downtown users. (Both Jeff Kingsbury's former employer, and an employee of his spoke in favor.) Most of them said things that were vague, or sounded ignorant. Afew had some compelling stories about bad things that have happened in downtown, but none managed to logically bring their testimony around to how the ordinances will address the problems cited. (Almost all of the behaviors people complained about are already illegal, but not addressed under the new ordinances.) By halfway through, several who had signed up to speak in favor of the ordinances said they were now on the fence, and several said they felt the ordinances may not be the right solution but that they were still in favor of them because "something should be done".

Basically it was looking pretty bad for the city and the so-called "unanimous" vote.

The issue was tabled.

»

Thank you.

"Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument."
»

A Very Fair Account

I'd agree with most of what Jade wrote and I'm in favor of curbing some of the social behavioral problems we have downtown (I was present all evening).  I don't think these ordinances are written to address the problem I'd like to see addressed.  I don't have a problem with panhandling as long as the panhandler doesn't mind being told no and doesn't break at being told no.  I give no money to those on the street who ask for money.  I do, however, buy meals for those who ask for food.  Just the other day I saw a homeless man in front of Target on the Westside.  He was obviously in need of food and something to drink.  I wasn't heading to Subway, but I went out of my way to buy him a sandwich (foot long, who messes around with 6"?) two bags of chips and two waters.  I brought it back and handed him the bag.  He looked at me like I was crazy.  I pushed it a little further towards him and told him to take it and that it was for him.  He lit up like a Christmas tree.  I've done the same for those downtown.  I do give to B&R and will continue to do so.

I don't have a problem with street musicians and artists.  As a guitarist for a local garage band, I appreciate all kinds of music and find the rawness of our downtown musicians to be a nice change from the ProTools produced radio hooks.

I'd like to see the leisure loitering go away.  I don't think it does our city any good to have people 'camp' in front of business downtown for hours at a time day after day.  Doesn't happen this time of year, but come spring and summer, the practice will be back.  I don't spend a great deal of time downtown and it was easy for me to identify those who habitually hopped block to block taking up sidewalk space with no intent on doing any commerce in the area.  I'm downtown two or three times a week, but never for more than an hour or two.  A bicyclist or runner or walker who sits to rest, or consume a sandwich, or drink some water is fine by me.  If it takes them an hour to move along, so what.  But you've got to handle the situation where people aimlessly use downtown sidewalks as park benches.  It is pretty clear when someone is waiting for a ride, or in line to buy theatre tickets, or taking a smoke break.  It is laughable when these become points of debate.

I don't think as a city we need to take back our streets.  I don't think as a city we need to target anyone.  There are plenty of places in town to take long extended breaks day after day.  We have parks, we have beaches, churches, etc.  But not downtown. 

I do think it is time we advocate for business and commerce and ensure we protect those who have made an investment in downtown.  It's a lot more than money into these business.  Blood, sweat, tears, time away from family come to mind.  Is it too much to ask for the extreme cases of loitering to be addressed?  I don't think so.

»

I agree 100% with the above

I agree 100% with the above post.

»

One More Thing

Matthew Green is one hell of a speaker.  He was hella good.  He was compelling, convincing and otherwise spot on!  I think the way the mayor listened to him says a lot.  He (the mayor) didn't take his eyes off of him.  Not to look at his computer.  Not to looks at his notes.  I think he may have changed some minds in the 3-5 minutes he had to speak.  I noticed he was going to get the bell and then it didn't go off.  You don't bell someone who speaks like that, tells it like it is, and respects the room all the while.
»

EH....RE: "you've got to handle the situation.."

1)  "you've got to handle the situation where people aimlessly use downtown sidewalks as park benches."

No we dont....

Olympians like that stuff..


2) "I don't spend a great deal of time downtown and it was easy for me to identify those who habitually hopped block to block taking up sidewalk space with no intent on doing any commerce in the area."

How do you know they arent doing any commerce?   Did you ask (poll) them? 

If not, then *Profiling*


3) "I'm downtown two or three times a week, but never for more than an hour or two."

More time (and money..) spent in Lacey?  I thought I heard that once from you EH  (great pedals bye the way when they dont break..)


4) "A bicyclist or runner or walker who sits to rest, or consume a sandwich, or drink some water is fine by me.  If it takes them an hour to move along, so what."

Thanks for defining the acceptable parameters for how long somebody can linger about. Thats Olycops job, not yours..


5) "It is pretty clear when someone is waiting for a ride, or in line to buy theatre tickets, or taking a smoke break.  It is laughable when these become points of debate..."

Blocking a pedestrian is blocking a pedestrian..


6) "I do think it is time we advocate for business and commerce and ensure we protect those who have made an investment in downtown..."

I think it is time that certain business people stop thinking they run this town. The neighborhoods run this town, not the slumlords. That point was made plainly obvious last night.

If these folks mess with the will of the neighborhood rabble, then they will be put down..

We are bought in and here to stay..

Joe Hyer loses his business before I lose my house..

I promise..

"I don't want every break in the world. I just want justice..."   Lenny Bruce
»

"Olympians like that

"Olympians like that stuff..."

Some of us don't, please don't speak for all of Olympia, thanks.

»

yawn...

"I don't want every break in the world. I just want justice..."   Lenny Bruce
»

Yawn all you want, but you

Yawn all you want, but you made a pretty broad statement there. If it were true the council meeting last night would have been empty.
»

6 words Norm...

---> Take It To A Public Vote <---

Wink
»

Sound good?

y/n
»

Sounds great, but you sir

Sounds great, but you sir are the one making the claim. So feel free to get a list of Olympia's registered voters and send out pamphlets. I'll cheer you on when I receive my ballot. Until then you have a pretty broad claim that certainly hasn't been backed up.
»

lol

lol
»

 I love messin with you!

Tongue out I love messin with you!
»

LMAO

LMAO
»

Gladly

I'd be more than happy to see the ordinance taken to a public vote.

I think democracy is a step above mob rule, but it's not like we're going to remove voting any time soon.

»

agreed fire...

democracy good...
»

Eh

I wouldn't say it's good, but it's the best we've come up with so far. Putting the ordinance to a vote would be pretty interesting, whichever way it went on the final tally.

»

You know which way it would go..

You know which way it would go..

Id lay down a hundy on it..
»

I don't

Know which way it would go. I'm going to make an assumption that a lot of people who would vote against the ordinance aren't registered to vote (and in some cases can't vote because of a previous felony). And then, of course, there's the practical matter of getting to a polling station on time (and on the right day) in the first place.

»

Dont bogart that joint my friend...

Dont bogart that joint, my friend...

Pass it over to me...

RE: "I'm going to make an assumption that a lot of people who would vote against the ordinance aren't registered to vote.."
»

Dont bogart that joint, my

Dont bogart that joint, my friend...Pass it over to me...

Haha.

»

lol

lol
»

Whoa!

Very presumptuous, TFI.

Most of the people I know who were there last night are registered voters. More over, a lot of us have worked on campaigns for city council members, or are at least pretty in the loop about city issues. I know that many of the homeless folks are registered, so its not only the middle class who votes.

There are people who are homeless because of a prior felony conviction(no one will rent to them), but even some of them can vote. (If they have met their sentencing requirements, including paying off all fines.)

Perhaps I am being equally presumptuous, but I imagine that the teacher from my daughter's elementary school who I saw there last night votes. I feel certain that the majority of the myriad of peace and justice activists who showed up vote. I think former council member Matthew Green probably votes. I think the social workers who showed up last night probably vote. I think the downtown business owners who spoke out against the ordinance vote. I think Wally probably votes. I think the Catholics who showed up from St. Michael's vote. I think attorney Vince Brown votes. Anyway, I won't go on. But I think you are drawing some stereotypes about who is against the ordinance.

It was a pretty diverse and politically active crowd.

Jade

»

Hey

I didn't say I wasn't making a pretty broad assumption. I've just come to notice that those in lower-economic situations don't participate as much in the voting process for various reasons. I would guess the most basic reason is the transportation issue. Nothing scientific about the statement, just an observation.

Pretty tough to put voting ahead of work, too. Assuming a person has to work two jobs to make ends meet, I doubt they're going to approach their boss and ask for an hour or two off in order to cast a vote.

»

Your also assuming that only

Your also assuming that only those in lower-economic situations oppose the ordinance. But that's just not true.

There are lots of sensible and decent people with money.

Jade

»

Olympians Like That Stuff?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.  I stand behind my earlier post about the leisurely loitering becoming permanent sidewalk occupation.

If making an observation or taking notice to a particular scene is profiling, then I'm profiling.  I'm not looking at their physical appearance or what they are wearing as the proof.  I simply see what to me is a detrement to a successful downtown.  My opinion and one that is much less intrusive than the proposed ordinances.

No, I don't shop in Lacey all that much, so not me on this one.  I live off Cooper Point and most of my shopping is done on the Westside.  Electro-Harmonix pedals are great!  I've never had one break on me - not yet anyway.  I usually have a Big Muff, Small Clone, and Hot Tubes as part of my floor arrangement.  The Big Muff using a Black Custom Tele through my Super Reverb reissue is a nice tone and great distorted guitar sound.

I wasn't looking to define anything for you bubbaz.  In my mind this is acceptable along with many other situations.  There are too many to list, I gave one example.  I'll leave the parameters up to the elected council members.  Olycop is there to enforce the parameters, not create them.

Blocking a pedestrian is blocking a pedestrian.

I don't argue that point and I think the way the ordinance is written doesn't account for the obvious.

I think it is time that certain business people stop thinking they run this town. The neighborhoods run this town, not the slumlords. That point was made plainly obvious last night.

Yeah, I don't really understand what you are saying here.  Is this a solution?

Joe Hyer loses his business before I lose my house.

Sorry, but this is just a ridiculous thing  to say.  Its not even part of the equation.

»

RE: Olympians like that stuff..."

1) EH, come on now...the "leisure loitering" you are describing is being done mostly by people with some scratch ($$)..I see college girls sitting on the sidewalk downtown reading a book most of the time.

(and yes, Olympians do like that stuff, I mean like we *REALLY* do....I promise..)

2) We can both agree then that you were just *profiling* these people. The only "detriment" to Downtown Olympia I see right now is this completely stupid ordinance..

3) RE: "I usually have a Big Muff, Small Clone, and Hot Tubes..."

Hot Tubes is vintage no? I dont think that has been reissued. A sweet pedal though..(a friend up in seattle has one.) I gots an Electric Mistress Flanger that kinda works and kinda dont depending (still the best flanger though..) My rig usually go: thinline Tele (or ES335) knockoff -> MXR Limiter (1980) -> EMF -> 65' Silvertone 1/12

4) "I'll leave the parameters up to the elected council members..."

Ill leave the parameters up to the people of Olympia. F*ck the City Council. They are in for a rude awakening if they think any of this shit will fly, because I promise you..it wont...

5) "Yeah, I don't really understand what you are saying here.  Is this a solution?"

Yes it is..The solution being that the City Coucil does what it was told to do on Tue, that being *get this stupid ordinance out of our face*. They would never put something like this before the voters of Olympia because it would get completely squashed.

6) RE: "Sorry, but this is just a ridiculous thing  to say.  Its not even part of the equation."

Im dead serious. I dont risk getting arrested my friend. If Joe Hyer thinks that he is going to lie to me and everybody else in order to pass this bullshit, then there will be a massive boycott of the "Alpine Experience" (frequented by alot of "Greeners"  hmmm....)

We will make him lose profit.
»

I agree with EG's first post here

I also only buy clothes, food, or items for the homeless/needy, almost never cash.

"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." Leo Tolstoy.

»

Me too..


When I used to smoke it would usually be ciggy's too...
»

When I used to smoke it

When I used to smoke it would usually be ciggy's too...

Surely bubbaz is implying he would also smoke a cigar or two. ;)

»

RE: "Surely bubbaz is implying he would also smoke a cigar."

RE: "Surely bubbaz is implying he would also smoke a cigar or two. ;).."

There is a Ween song that goes like:

("Mr. Richard Smoker...your a poopy poker"..)

Thats some good wordin' right there..
»

Olyblog ate my post :(

Thank you for typing this up. It may be one-sided but it's still the best account, that I've read, of what happend.
»

of course it is "one-sided"

There is only one side to this issue.  There are many issues that only have one side.  Even though some people will take the so-called other side of an issue that is one-sided, does not change the fact that some issues are one-sided. 

Need an example?  Think back to the debates people must have had back in Hitler's time.  Hitler though it as a great idea to round up and exterminate Jews.  How many sides were there on that issue?  Only the correct side.  People might debate that gassing Jews is a fine thing and would be good for society and the economy.  People can say a lot of things.  Still doesn't mean there is more than one side to an issue, the correct side.  We don't need no "final solution" in Olympia.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

So...

There's only one side to being able to control your property and patron flow, and that's to allow people who don't even own property to make decisions for you based on a mob mentality?

»

you don't control people

You don't control people, but you can work with them.  We start with respecting each person's humanity, and this is particularly incumbent on those with means, than the other way around.  If you find a way of being inclusive you will always have a better outcome than if you endevor to control.  I guess it is the control thing that bothers me.  I keep thinking about that Nutter guy by B&B.  Textbook case of someone that has to control rather than work with people, all people.  Mark my words, file this post away, he will be out of business in his present location before Thanksgiving 2007.  I'm willing to bet $50 to the conservative cause of your choice, so file this away.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

There's always two sides to

There's always two sides to everything. I figured you knew better with all the experience you've had with life. Just because one side isn't "correct" doesn't mean there isn't two sides. I appreciate your enthusiasm toward's your cause, and even my mind ( this'll be rough ) is changing in points around this proposed ordinance, does not mean that there aren't two sides to this.....or even a whole lot of gray.
»

Moral relativism

is going to be the blight that does us all in.

Jade

»

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism  Would you take away people's perspectives, or their right to have an opposing perspective, in order to obtain a greater-good? Crenshaw made a heart-felt point, but his comparison was pretty extreme ( the death of so many people compared to the removal of people from a sidewalk ). As a human, and as someone who has changed their mind on things in the past, I enjoy looking at issues from more than one angle. I don't want to be limited by what one group thinks is the only "correct" view. I'd hate to have the wrong group in power telling me what's "right"...sounds similar to what some of you oppose in bush. ie being anti-war is anti-american etc.

»

I would take away people's

I would take away people's "right" to criminalize basic human functions such as sitting.

You misunderestimate me. ;-) Its not necessarily "extremism" that I'm opposed to. In other words, I don't think that a happy medium, compromise, or a centrist perspective always has the moral high ground over an innovative or "radical" solution. If that were the case, we could solve problems easily. Just poll the extremes and choose the middle ground.

Obviously, that's not how I make my decisions.

Jade

»

You have a great heart Jade.

You have a great heart Jade. "Misunderestimate" ? I don't think anyone has used that word in a conversation with me. So would basic human functions be skate-boarding too? How about those little mini-bikes that can do 30mph, do those belong on the sidewalk also? I'm to the point where I don't care about the ordinances. I don't like downtown enough to feel that I need to fight for it. If people want to strip naked and wrestle in chocolate pudding on 4th ave from 4th dimension computers all the way down to lemongrass, I'm ok with that.

 The interesting thing about a happy medium is that many times they make both sides happy, or at least happy enough to tolerate one another and get people to the point that they realize they don't need a rule/law to protect them from the other. As opposed to extremism that leaves one party or the other in the dirt and biding their time until they can make a move and tip the odds.

»

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki

»

Here's where I am a conservative:

You say there are two sides to every issue.

I'd go further to say there are as many stories in this world as there are births, and each is unique. But that doesn't mean that there are not some beliefs that are useful, compassionate, empowering and beautiful, and some that are useless, heartless, oppressive, and ugly.

I think moral relativism is the answer to moral laziness. Of course everyone really knows that there is a difference between right and wrong, but if you deny that and say its all just personal preference, you relieve yourself of the work of determining right and wrong, and standing by right.

Jade

»

but who's definition of

but who's definition of right and wrong do we go by?
»

If there was a person who

If there was a person who was right about everything, people wouldn't agree on what that person thought anyway. We do the best we can.

Jade

»

Exactly 

Exactly  Wink

»

Just to lend a helping hand

I guess I'll be the arbiter of morality. But only because it'll clear up some of these nasty issues. Now, besides the sidewalk ordinances being morally rotten, what else do you need me to chime in on?

"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."

»

Sounds dangerous to me. We

Sounds dangerous to me. We are already in trouble as a country with 2 groups trying to lead us ( dems/reps ) could you imagine if it was only 1 group calling the shots? or worse yet 1 person?
»

thought experiment

You have permission to think of me as more of a deity. One that has providence over moral issues, of course.

"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."

»

I would take Dictator Jason

I would take Dictator Jason over a lot of the yahoos we have to choose from in our current 'democracy'.

BTW, I wrote in candidates this year for all unopposed positions. I would have wrote in more Olybloggers, but I know very few people's last names. I was afraid they might throw out my ballot if I wrote in "Operagirl" or "Crenshaw Sepulveda".

Jade

»

Belief in the almight enpen

Belief in the almight enpen will bring us peace and salvation? I'm feeling a bout of atheism coming on. Tongue out
»

my second decree

That's morally wrong, Norm. No shooting for 3 months.

"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."

»

Well, I thank you for that.

Well, I thank you for that. I was planning on not buying ammo for awhile so I could spend more on xmas and spend more time with my family, you've given me a great excuse now.
»

'You are either with us or against us'

I guess this would be a different example, more recent than WWII.  Bush would treat those that are against him as he would treat the September 11 terrorists.  Not much room for more than one side on this issue with Bush.  i guess if your are conservative you can have opinions that no one is allowed to disagree with.  If you are liberal the conservatives want to debate things even if they make themselves look like fools.  And before you go on, more people die of homelessness each year than died as the results of the September 11th attacks.
»

Do you fear to become that

Do you fear to become that which you hate?
»

Thanks, Jade!  =)"She grew

Thanks, Jade!  =)

"She grew on him like she was a colony of E.Coli, and he was room-temperature Canadian beef."

»

Last night an out-of-state

Last night an out-of-state relative commented on the number of homeless people around downtown Olympia in comparison to cities that are much larger. They couldn't believe how many people we have sitting on the street.

They had no idea about the ordinance, either. Just an out-of-state perspective.

»

Sitting on the street?


Last night?


"I don't want every break in the world. I just want justice..."   Lenny Bruce
»

Last Night

They made the comment about an October trip to Olympia.

»

Oh...

"I don't want every break in the world. I just want justice..."   Lenny Bruce
»

Thank you, Jade.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
»

Thank you for the report!

Aldo Leopold: "We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect."

Indeed, and when we see all of humanity as a community to which we belong, we may begin to treat people with love and respect...

»

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