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Submitted by Jade on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 11:09am.
A while ago we were having a discussion about organic farming and whether organic foods could sustain the world population. I just came across this article about how big agribusiness has spun a lot of PR myths about organics vs. conventionally grown. I have always been a die-hard proponent of organics, but this part suprised even me:
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"Experts have shown that using pesticides does not guarantee increased yields. David Pimentel, professor of insect ecology and agricultural sciences at Cornell University, says: "[Pesticide] use does not always decrease crop losses. For example, even with the 10-fold increase in insecticide use in the United States from 1945 to 1989, total crop losses from insect damage have nearly doubled from 7% to 13%." This came from my new favorite website journeytoforever.org...
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Insects have a very
Submitted by Dr. Camen on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 1:08pm.Mass produced food cannot aviod a huge portion of their crops turing slightly acidic before harvest and thus they use pesticides to improve the LOOK of food (not the QUANTITY as you discovered Jade).
Thus, you can grow tomatoes in your back yard and nothing will touch them till you should have already. There is no need for pesticides whatsoever, unless of course you are exploting the land with ridiculously large yeilds where some will turn slightly acidic before others, and that is why non-organic food has less flavor---its already quite acidic after the long ride to the grocery store.
That's why flies won't touch organic fruit and veggies till they have been sitting for too long. That's why its good to eat leftovers as soon as possible (even alkaline food turns acidic if it sits for too long). That's why the body wants immediately-fresh food and not all the stale food that gets passed-out at the food bank.
Many books have been written about the pH of food that is ideal for our stomachs and our well being. I highly reccomend the book: "ALKALIZE OR DIE" by Dr. Baroody for anybody who cares about maximizing health.
Another thing to consider: buffets are almost always too acidic. Meat turns acidic as it sits in your digestive system. All that acid-building food depletes the body's enzymes that are needed to maintain energy and life. THAT'S WHY YOU FEEL TIRED AFTER EATING HAMBURGERS! There is acid-producing music too: unharmonious chords are unsettling because they produce acid in the body too. Black pepper produces acid, try cayanne instead. The body produces excess acid under prolonged excess stress as well.
Awhile ago Norm asked why batdorf n bronson coffee gave him heartburn....my guess is that in addition to the coffee most of everything else he eats is acid-producing as well, and if you eat a lot of acid producing foods you'll have acid running up and down your esophagus because you're producing so much excess acid. Immunity, intelligence, longevity, creativity, and vitality go down the drain from there as well.
Another problem, of course, is that artificial mass produced harvests are the only way to support our huge population which has risen above the natural capabilities of Earth.
My guess is that if everyone starts eating locally from local farms and starts growing their own food (which is currently a federal offense), THEN hospitals will become less crowded, THEN ladies will stop having too many children without local food sources to support them, THEN communities will come together, THEN local charm will save us from the monotonous cultures harvested at Safeway and Costco, THEN the economy will switch to favor those who live according to the natural way of the Earth, and THEN WE WILL FEEL SAFER AND MORE UNITED AND MORE PROUD OF OUR WAYS, THEN we will stop pumping Sulfur Dioxide and Nitrogen Oxide into the atmoshpere (new cars keep pumping out the toxins that matter the most), THEN asthma rates will decrease in Detroit, concrete jungles will turn green, water will be purified naturally....I HAVE A DREAM...THAT EVERY AMERICAN CAN WALK DOWN THE STREET AND SEE FOOD GROWING FREELY, I HAVE A DREAM, THAT EVERY HUNGRY PERSON CAN GET OFF THEIR TAIL AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE NATURAL GROWING FOOD SYSTEM SO THAT THEY CAN DESERVE THEIR DINNER. I HAVE A DREAM...............THAT DOCTORS CAN START TREATING HEALTHY PEOPLE BECAUSE HOSPITALS WON'T BE SO OVERCROWDED.......I HAVE A DREAM: THAT THE FOOD IN MY FRIG CAME FROM MY OWN GARDEN....THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL LET FARMERS GROW THEIR OWN FOOD WITHOUT CHARGING THEM WITH DISRUPTING THE VERY COMMMERCE THAT IS TRASHING OUR EARTH AND ONLY MAKING A FEW PEOPLE RICH............
*EDIT: There is no need for *OIL-BASED* pesticides whatsoever! Natural pesticides might be required for local farms. Beer and Bleach are two perfectly good pesticides.
Thank-you Olycop for pointing out the foggy part of my comment, sometimes I type a little fast, you'd make a good editor Olycop. Thanks for chatting here.
Dig that local flavor
Submitted by Jade on Wed, 08/02/2006 - 10:14pm.Jade
(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)
Ok a question for the Dr.
Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 1:50pm.I'm curious about the tomato example you give. You may be correct about the tomato and the insects getting the fruit.
But what about the tomato worms, the big green caterpillers that have black horn on their head that eat the plants? If the plant is dead, how can it produce tomatoes? When I was a kid, I would help my grandparents pull these suckers off the plants. They only had about 50 tomato plants in their garden, so a day search for them was rather easy to do. But doing it on a tomato farm might be a bit of a problem.
Another example would be apples. The worms, insect larva, get into the fruit long before it is ripe.
I'm not anti-organic, in fact I'm pro-organic, but I'm not so sure the issue is just so simplistic.
Ok well, I was focusing on
Submitted by Dr. Camen on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 2:24pm.So try some Steele Reserve or something instead of ripping them off by hand next time. Slugs don't like beer either. At least creepy crawlers are smart enough to stay off the booze......
Hey Olycop: how's that for a good use of cheap beer? Much better than poisoning homeless people around town, huh?
Also, you can grow crab-apples next to sweeter apples (insects like acidic food more than sweet food which humans like, there is a balance that needs to exist so that everything can live) and the insect larvae will go there instead, although they won't eat all the crab apples and they won't kill the crab apple tree either, and I find that the good crab apples make good red apple sauce with added natural sweetners. pH is always more alkaline in naturally sweet foods, and insects like acidic foods, so its not that hard to keep insects off the sweet stuff, but then again, I concede that I over-simplified it in my first comment...although it's really not that hard to keep insects off food without using the gasoline stuff.
Also, bleach works well too, and it won't harm the food. Bleach rinses of well and evaporates without damaging the food at all. Bleach will also get the evil-gasoline-oil off your non-organic fruits and veggies too. So as soon as you buy all that mass produced, artificially-high population-supporting nutrient-less, flavor-less, acidic garbage that poses as fresh fruit and vegetables from Safeway, take it home and soak it all in bleach right away, rinse, and let dry thoroughly.
Any more questions for the Dr.?
I'm sure I will have more questions for the good Dr.
Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 2:59pm.I wonder which costs more, beer or malathion (sp?)
Go ahead and spray all the beer you want, just stay away from my cabernet. :)
ha ha!!! Steele Reserve is
Submitted by Dr. Camen on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 3:08pm.Steele Reserve is WAY cheaper in my opinion because of the medical and LE costs that will be saved once humans stop drinking it and Malathion has been linked to Leukemia which costs a FORTUNE to treat ......
Speaking of diseases in the blood, Cabernet is actually good for rebuilding the blood, so I'll leave it alone, but remember, more than 4 ounces of cabernet is toxic!
Agribusiness
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Tue, 08/01/2006 - 3:19pm.The pesticide issue is also important, because this makes people (and animals) directly ill. But the long term effect of NPK supplementation is that it leaves us without micronutrient minerals. The plants take out selenium, chromium, vanadium, etc and we don't put any (or much) back in. Multiply this by 40 years or 100 (most farm land in the US has been in production this long at least) and you get diminished capacity for food having ANY micronutrient nutrition. Widespread degenerative diseases such as diabetes result.
This is where organics have their chance: if we amend the soils with full spectrum minerals (ash from wood burned in our stoves was a good source in history) then we will get food which is healthy.
Oh, by the way - Chromium, Vanadium and Selenium are the three minerals which prevent diabetes - one in ten health care dollars can be saved by simply including these three minerals in small amounts in the diet, preferably as plants which have taken up the minerals (so it is biologically available for digestion in your tummy).
Of course, the amendment of an "organic" garden with compost made from food which did not have micronutrient minerals in it in the first place, is going to result in less than desirable results. Wood ash is actually our best bet for supplementing the soil in the short term. Long term, we must rebuild tilth and allow the full spectrum of funji, minerals, and soil bacteria to thrive as they will, and help our crops grow as well as they can. That means eventually learning how to return our own poop to the soil without causing disease. We can do it. In fact, we will do it or we will die off as a species.
As for pests, they are a problem - and not just in the late stages of fruiting as olycop points out. But the natural stages of insect life cycles each have their own predator relationships and we can use these to great effect. People have been known to use predatory insects on aphids, for example. There are better ways to deal with them than to poison ourselves, though.
*Cheap water - we should keep in mind that the Ogallala Aquifer has only a few short years left in it - perhaps a hundred years if there is no growth in demand, perhaps less since there will be much more demand likely. North Plains Groundwater Conservation District This water system is the main source of water for our "breadbasket to the world," and it does not recharge at anywhere near the rate at which we take from it. As we run out of oil, so too we will run out of this water (think of it as fossil glaciers). When we do, food will not be so cheap, or so plentiful, and our population will crash to come in line with our means.
Or we'll already have had a population crash due to the reduced fertility caused by estrogenic compounds in our air and water...
Thanks, Drew. I was already
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Wed, 08/02/2006 - 2:23pm.I know what you're saying is true, but for god's sake man, at least sugar-coat it! Put something at the end like: "babies born to women who eat chocolate are happier," or "some scientists claim that the universe is shaped like a horn of plenty". ps-I'm about three pages from the end of Cunning, so you can pick it up at BRAC anytime (I'll leave it at the desk).
I actually thought Drew's post was rather optimistic
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 08/02/2006 - 7:21pm.My understanding is that if
Submitted by Jade on Wed, 08/02/2006 - 10:11pm.I hate to say it, but in 50 years people may be thanking those they used to chastise for having "too many" children.
Jade
(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)
Malthusian Consensus
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Thu, 08/03/2006 - 11:55am.http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/basic_information/total_fertility_rate/
"Although still high in many parts of the world, total fertility rates have been declining dramatically over the past decade. As the chart below illustrates, the world's TFR for 1998 was less than 3. In the more developed countries such as the United States TFRs are already well below the replacement rate, though in many of these countries population continues to grow due to the age structure of the population as well as immigration. Currently 61 countries have a TFR of 2.1 or less.
The total fertility rate of the less developed countries is twice as high as that of the more developed countries, but it is falling -- from 1985 to 1998 TFRs in the less developed countries dropped almost 40 percent from 4.7 in 1986 to 3.2 in 1998. Although the cause is debated, there is no doubt that women all over the world are having fewer children."
You're right that it will take a while to see the benefits of reduced fertility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertility_rate
"The TFR required for a population to remain constant in size is 2.1 (assuming mortality rates are not unusually high). However, when a population achieves replacement-level fertility, that population will continue to grow for several generations, approximately 50 to 200 years. This phenomenon is called population momentum or population-lag effect. This time-lag effect is of great importance to human populations growth rates."
Of course, the food situation will get better faster than the general population levels: every parent knows that Grandma eats a lot less than Teen Wolf.