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Submitted by Jade on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 9:12am.

[Promoted to front page by Rick]

I have also done a lot of thinking about this issue, and this is what I have come to: It is no service to soldiers to lump them together and write them off as "puppets".

True, they are not the orchestrators of this war. But they are the machinery that makes it happen. As we all know, this comes with heavy consequences to themselves, their loved ones, and people in Iraq. Our government happens to be extremely skilled at convincing people in the military that they have no choices anymore, they are nothing more than government property, and that their duty to obey orders is somehow a higher calling than their own inherent human moral sensibility.

Then our government convinces us civilians that our duty to be polite to soldiers is more important than our duty to tell the truth and hold one another accountable.

Bullshit.

Read more:

You do not lose your identity, your humanity, or your responsibility when you put on a uniform. We are each responsible for every decision we make and its impacts.

We make mistakes. We f*** up.That is the nature of being human. And we get into seemingly hopeless situations where we think there's no way out, and its hard to do the right thing. But no matter how deep we get in, it is our responsibility to follow truth and justice through the messes we have created or fallen into.

I work with people in prison who's situations are horrible. I have met people who were wrongly convicted. I have met people who were sentenced for stealing food for their kids. I have met people who have been using, dealing, and manufacturing drugs since before adolescence and will leave prison to no job opportunities, no money, no support network, and having lost custody of their children. Why the hell do people keep on trying to do good?

I don't know. But I know that many people do. And the really good people that I have met in life are the people that are willing to take responsibility for their own power, no matter how minute it might be. They take their power and choose what they will use it for. That's all we can do.

Its incredible to see someone who you thought was powerless do this, because what you find out is that all of us- no matter how oppressed and marginalized- have an incredible amount of power that touches everything and everyone all around us. Very few of us know how to use it.

The government would have the people in our military believe that they have no power, no freedom, no value except as a duty-bound cog in the war-machine.

Because if the soldiers knew the truth, this war would vaporize in a heartbeat. And so would the profits that the powerful are reaping from it. It takes a tremendous amount of propaganda to keep people from seeing the obvious. The emperor has no clothes. There is no war without soldier's consent.

I will not do the "troops" the disrespect of calling them mindless government property. They have hearts and minds and pumping blood and breath and conscience under those uniforms, and they are duty-bound, as are we all, to use them to do whatever's right, even when it means being scandalized or imprisoned.

I hate that this is what will happen to them. But I still support them in doing it. I don't think it is right for me to avoid confronting wrong-doing because it is painful for the person doing it. I would call on all soldiers to resist this war.

Jade

»

I'm so close to agreeing

I'm so close to agreeing with you. What I can't shake is the feeling that these soldiers are a part of a system that has taught them that they have no say. If you are taught that this is right, and everything else is wrong, then why would you ever question this? I like to think about things in terms of what is going on now. The reality, as I see it, is that soldiers are not empowered to be free thinking, they are empowered to follow orders. How can one reasonably expect a soldier to buck the system if they have no idea the system is buckable?
»

I agree...

Its a tall order. (No pun intended...
It would seem next to impossible for a soldier to outwit the kind of intense brainwashing that the military bombards them with. Certainly I think talking to soldiers about the war calls for consideration of this fact. Heavy doses of compassion, patience, and tact are in order. For the most part, people in the military are good people because they are driven by a love for their families and homeland, and a deep sense of commitment and courage. However, another part of being a good person is taking responsibility to have complete information about the things you do.

I guess what I am trying to say is that they have been brainwashed into thinking that they have no power or worth, and it makes sense that they believe it based on that experience. But it is not real support to go on bolstering someone in this kind of lie about themselves. I think it is okay to be challenging. Talking to the troops is speaking truth to power. The same way that employees of a company can go on strike, so can soldiers halt the war.

I do not blame soldiers for their predicament so much as I ask them to appreciate their own power and value as people.

As for the system that makes them believe otherwise, it can rot in hell.

Jade

(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)

»

"Heavy doses of compassion,

"Heavy doses of compassion, patience, and tact are in order. For the most part, people in the military are good people because they are driven by a love for their families and homeland, and a deep sense of commitment and courage."

You and I are on the same page here, Jade.  I argued against making soldiers into political targets in a comment on a previous post, but there is a great deal of difference between empowering soldiers to follow their conscience and protesting their participation in the system.  I fully support churches (or anyone for that matter) offering sanctuary to war resisters.  I have a great deal of admiration for Glen Anderson's CO training work.  I also support compassionate dialogues with soldiers to educate and empower them to follow their heart.

I guess I'm just using too many words to say "Ditto".  You always nail it on the head.
»

There are other factors.

One that comes to mind is age, 17 or 18 year olds are not, for the most part, prepared to make intuitive or logical desicions. I really believe, and this is based on my own experience that the age for joining should be bumped up to 20 or 21. At that age, you are usually fully developed physically, and much better developed mentally. What you call brainwashing, I think is nothing more than youthfrul naivete. Having been in the military, I know I certainly took a lot of BS at face value, never questioned orders I was given, and never took the time to learn about the operations we would go on. There are older servicepeople, and I think it comes down to conditioning, brainwashing might be a better term for them, as opposed to the younger servicemembers who make up the majority. They've had so much drummed into their heads for so long that they become true believers. I met a lot of people like that while I was in.
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I blame the schools...

I think a person of 17 or 18 is perfectly capable of making mature decisions. Too often we underestimate what young people are capable of. The problem is not that they are too young. Its that few young people are allowed to experience much real life in their adolescence, so they are ill-prepared for the real world and the decisions that come with adulthood.

Our schools provide excellent preparation for the military. They are based on a model which encourages sameness and conformity, and does nothing to foster creativity and critical thought-the two components of good thinking. In fact, creativity and critical thought are heavily discouraged in most classrooms.

Take a young person of twelve or thirteen and allow him to do meaningful work, participate in the adult world according to his desire, and freely pursue his own interests and you will have an intelligent and mature individual at 18. Lock him up in public high school for four years and you will have someone accustomed to following orders and inexperienced with the skills of real life. Sadly, there is no genius so great that it can't be destroyed by a long education...

Jade

(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)

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Ahhh, so the next movement

Ahhh, so the next movement is to tell the students to refuse orders and stop going to school?
»

Exactly!

Exactly!
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I think any teenager who

I think any teenager who takes their education into their own hands will be the better for it...

Jade

(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)

»

I suppose we'll have to

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The only plus ( from earlier in this post ) that I can see to not finishing high school is that you can't join the military, unless you get your GED but that's organized education also.
»

I never finished high

I never finished high school, and I'm mighty grateful for it.

I'm one of the few lefties out there who is an adamant supporter of vouchers and charter schools. The way I see it, the public school system is so f'ed up that little can be done to make it worse (you know, I thought this way back when I dropped out, then they started WASL... bureaucrats and politicians are really, really good at making things worse than can be imagined).

Public schools, particularly high schools, are so bad that the best choice for parents, when possible, is to homeschool their kids.  Likewise, the best choice for kids, when their parents are unable to homeschool them, is to drop out and take charge of their own education.
»

Likewise, the best choice

Likewise, the best choice for kids, when their parents are unable to homeschool them, is to drop out and take charge of their own education.

I hope you don't advocate this to young people. While I agree that public education is not what it should be, I don't think that dropping out and taking "charge of their own education" is of any help.

It would be best to take charge of your education while you're in the school system.

Unless, of course, you believe you may possess a talent or skill that doesn't require a high school diploma, e.g. writing the next big movie or play on Broadway.

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."

»

I would.

A high school diploma doesn't mean squat anymore. Any kid is better off going to community college or vocational school, or taking the GED, and just following their own interests to a career that suits them.

Even if you are Ivy league material, I don't think dropping out is likely to change that. Drive is drive, and school dampens most people's drive a great deal. I have never met someone who lost ambition because of leaving school, but I know quite a few who found it by leaving.

One of my best friends graduated from one of the top law schools in the country without so much as a GED. Another friend of mine is in the honors section of the biochemistery 440 class at the UW, pulling straight As in all her classes, doing graduate level work in a genetics lab, and considered a brilliant scientist by most of her superiors. Guess what? Never finished her freshmen year of high school.

I would encourage any young person considering dropping out for their own education's sake to go for it. I think 9 out of 10 drop-outs are better off than they would have been.

Jade

(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)

»

Ditto.

Ditto.
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Let's review...

The ten years or so before the civil wars in Bosnia / Kosovo were marked by people dumping public education and separating their kids into school systems based around ethnicity / religion. Not saying it has to happen that way, just that we should have our eyes open to history when we choose to drive the bus down that road again.

»

You're absolutely right,

You're absolutely right, Jade. Things are not set up for young people to really thrive.
»

The kids are alright

The kids will thrive if we let them thrive, actully it is not so much "let them thrive" because this is  not something where we can allow or deny this.  It is more like the kids will thrive if we stay out of their ways and not impose our desires upon them, not that we should actually have desires to impose on them.  I hope this makes sense, it certainly makes sense to me.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
»

Sgt. Ricky Clousing

Recently charged with desertion for being AWOL for a year, Sgt. Clousing could use words of support and thanks for his refusal to serve the immoral and illegal military actions in Iraq.
»

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