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Submitted by Jade on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 9:12am.
[Promoted to front page by Rick] I have also done a lot of thinking about this issue, and this is what I have come to: It is no service to soldiers to lump them together and write them off as "puppets". True, they are not the orchestrators of this war. But they are the machinery that makes it happen. As we all know, this comes with heavy consequences to themselves, their loved ones, and people in Iraq. Our government happens to be extremely skilled at convincing people in the military that they have no choices anymore, they are nothing more than government property, and that their duty to obey orders is somehow a higher calling than their own inherent human moral sensibility. Then our government convinces us civilians that our duty to be polite to soldiers is more important than our duty to tell the truth and hold one another accountable. Bullshit. You do not lose your identity, your humanity, or your responsibility when you put on a uniform. We are each responsible for every decision we make and its impacts. We make mistakes. We f*** up.That is the nature of being human. And we get into seemingly hopeless situations where we think there's no way out, and its hard to do the right thing. But no matter how deep we get in, it is our responsibility to follow truth and justice through the messes we have created or fallen into. I work with people in prison who's situations are horrible. I have met people who were wrongly convicted. I have met people who were sentenced for stealing food for their kids. I have met people who have been using, dealing, and manufacturing drugs since before adolescence and will leave prison to no job opportunities, no money, no support network, and having lost custody of their children. Why the hell do people keep on trying to do good? I don't know. But I know that many people do. And the really good people that I have met in life are the people that are willing to take responsibility for their own power, no matter how minute it might be. They take their power and choose what they will use it for. That's all we can do. Its incredible to see someone who you thought was powerless do this, because what you find out is that all of us- no matter how oppressed and marginalized- have an incredible amount of power that touches everything and everyone all around us. Very few of us know how to use it. The government would have the people in our military believe that they have no power, no freedom, no value except as a duty-bound cog in the war-machine. Because if the soldiers knew the truth, this war would vaporize in a heartbeat. And so would the profits that the powerful are reaping from it. It takes a tremendous amount of propaganda to keep people from seeing the obvious. The emperor has no clothes. There is no war without soldier's consent. I will not do the "troops" the disrespect of calling them mindless government property. They have hearts and minds and pumping blood and breath and conscience under those uniforms, and they are duty-bound, as are we all, to use them to do whatever's right, even when it means being scandalized or imprisoned. I hate that this is what will happen to them. But I still support them in doing it. I don't think it is right for me to avoid confronting wrong-doing because it is painful for the person doing it. I would call on all soldiers to resist this war. Jade
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I'm so close to agreeing
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 10:42am.I agree...
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 10:44am.It would seem next to impossible for a soldier to outwit the kind of intense brainwashing that the military bombards them with. Certainly I think talking to soldiers about the war calls for consideration of this fact. Heavy doses of compassion, patience, and tact are in order. For the most part, people in the military are good people because they are driven by a love for their families and homeland, and a deep sense of commitment and courage. However, another part of being a good person is taking responsibility to have complete information about the things you do.
I guess what I am trying to say is that they have been brainwashed into thinking that they have no power or worth, and it makes sense that they believe it based on that experience. But it is not real support to go on bolstering someone in this kind of lie about themselves. I think it is okay to be challenging. Talking to the troops is speaking truth to power. The same way that employees of a company can go on strike, so can soldiers halt the war.
I do not blame soldiers for their predicament so much as I ask them to appreciate their own power and value as people.
As for the system that makes them believe otherwise, it can rot in hell.
Jade
(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)
"Heavy doses of compassion,
Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 09/05/2006 - 6:12pm.You and I are on the same page here, Jade. I argued against making soldiers into political targets in a comment on a previous post, but there is a great deal of difference between empowering soldiers to follow their conscience and protesting their participation in the system. I fully support churches (or anyone for that matter) offering sanctuary to war resisters. I have a great deal of admiration for Glen Anderson's CO training work. I also support compassionate dialogues with soldiers to educate and empower them to follow their heart.
I guess I'm just using too many words to say "Ditto". You always nail it on the head.
There are other factors.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 10:51am.I blame the schools...
Submitted by Jade on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 1:10pm.Our schools provide excellent preparation for the military. They are based on a model which encourages sameness and conformity, and does nothing to foster creativity and critical thought-the two components of good thinking. In fact, creativity and critical thought are heavily discouraged in most classrooms.
Take a young person of twelve or thirteen and allow him to do meaningful work, participate in the adult world according to his desire, and freely pursue his own interests and you will have an intelligent and mature individual at 18. Lock him up in public high school for four years and you will have someone accustomed to following orders and inexperienced with the skills of real life. Sadly, there is no genius so great that it can't be destroyed by a long education...
Jade
(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)
Ahhh, so the next movement
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 1:47pm.Exactly!
Submitted by Rick on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 1:55pm.I think any teenager who
Submitted by Jade on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 5:15pm.Jade
(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)
I suppose we'll have to
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 5:29pm.I never finished high
Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 09/05/2006 - 5:54pm.I'm one of the few lefties out there who is an adamant supporter of vouchers and charter schools. The way I see it, the public school system is so f'ed up that little can be done to make it worse (you know, I thought this way back when I dropped out, then they started WASL... bureaucrats and politicians are really, really good at making things worse than can be imagined).
Public schools, particularly high schools, are so bad that the best choice for parents, when possible, is to homeschool their kids. Likewise, the best choice for kids, when their parents are unable to homeschool them, is to drop out and take charge of their own education.
Likewise, the best choice
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Tue, 09/05/2006 - 6:37pm.Likewise, the best choice for kids, when their parents are unable to homeschool them, is to drop out and take charge of their own education.
I hope you don't advocate this to young people. While I agree that public education is not what it should be, I don't think that dropping out and taking "charge of their own education" is of any help.
It would be best to take charge of your education while you're in the school system.
Unless, of course, you believe you may possess a talent or skill that doesn't require a high school diploma, e.g. writing the next big movie or play on Broadway.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
I would.
Submitted by Jade on Tue, 09/05/2006 - 7:04pm.Even if you are Ivy league material, I don't think dropping out is likely to change that. Drive is drive, and school dampens most people's drive a great deal. I have never met someone who lost ambition because of leaving school, but I know quite a few who found it by leaving.
One of my best friends graduated from one of the top law schools in the country without so much as a GED. Another friend of mine is in the honors section of the biochemistery 440 class at the UW, pulling straight As in all her classes, doing graduate level work in a genetics lab, and considered a brilliant scientist by most of her superiors. Guess what? Never finished her freshmen year of high school.
I would encourage any young person considering dropping out for their own education's sake to go for it. I think 9 out of 10 drop-outs are better off than they would have been.
Jade
(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)
Ditto.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 09/05/2006 - 7:23pm.Let's review...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Wed, 09/06/2006 - 9:38pm.You're absolutely right,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 09/04/2006 - 5:37pm.The kids are alright
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Wed, 09/06/2006 - 9:30pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Sgt. Ricky Clousing
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 09/06/2006 - 10:40pm.