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Submitted by Norm on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 7:31pm.
Obviously unless the dots are connected and conclusions drawn then insults don't really count.
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immature at best, slander, cheapen, etc??
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 7:56pm.Charged language Norm..
Just one question:
When did anyone on here ever call the decision of the City Council racist?
Concretely show me..
Thanks..
Less straight talk, more
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 8:10pm.Less straight talk, more innuendo.
The title alone, Olympia City Council Meeting and Racism - Discussion & Potluck
and in
this thread mentions it also.
I was trying not to point fingers or name names. Maybe the posters had different intents but both didn't read well to me. The second link not as much as the first, but it's still an accusation that doesn't sit well with me.
less straight talk?
Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 8:33pm.the straightest talk (read: concrete language..) I have read so far referring to the Council as racist is the following language: "makes anybody on the council racist.." (Norm 4/23/07)
Yep, more innuendo than
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 8:46pm.Yep, more innuendo than straight talk.
Again, the title, Olympia City Council Meeting and Racism, doesn't look good. It insinuates that the Olympia City Council is racist.
and the comment, I felt the detractors, those who opposed the proposal, relied on an almost purely ad hominem attack that wasn't without a certain degree of overt racism.
So all of the detractors relied on racism? Pretty strong words.
Again, if someone can point to the racism that was used by the detractors, the council, whoever, concerning the Rafah/Olympia sister city, I'd be happy to retract my statement. I think even mentioning it here is cheapening racism.
Thanks for twisting my line around there Bub, I appreciate that. So does it have to be a concrete statement in order to be wrong or deragatory?
so you have nothing concrete..
Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 8:53pm.Just innuendo huh..
Thats defamatory slanderous..
FYI..
Which is why I didn't want
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 9:05pm.Which is why I didn't want to point fingers Bub.
Whatever though, it's withdrawn.
now dont be all mad at me now..
Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 9:06pm.During the public comment
Submitted by OperaGirl on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 8:50pm.I believe both posts you linked to carried the above sentiment and not that the city council member are racists.
.
“Tell me, what is it you plan on doing with your one wild and precious life?” ~ Mary Oliver
I think the decision to deny
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 04/22/2007 - 10:58pm.But I find myself asking whether such a vocal opposition would have come forth had such a relationship been proposed with an Israeli city/town/village. And if there were those who opposed such a relationship, and called it "political" and "divisive," would the council have decided against it also?
The point is that the Palestinians are being treated as inferiors. Palestinians are suffering under the oppression of the Israeli state. Sure, there are terrorists in Palestine. Just as the Israeli military machine surely terrorizes Palestinians. It goes both ways.
Is that a good enough reason to pass judgment and decline a sister-city relationship? I don't think so. I don't think that the sister-city proposal in any way said that terrorism is acceptable behavior. The object of the proposal was to benefit, mutually, the people of Rafah and the people of Olympia, through increased communication and trade.
The people who made it divisive brought race into the issue. They said that Palestinians are terrorists. Well, if they want to look at it from that POV - Israelis are terrorists too.
One person's terrorist is
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 6:11am.The Oly City Council's decision lacked courage, it ignored the legitimate efforts and intentions of a large number of South Sound residents who desire the official city status and whose work should have been recognized and accommodated. Normalizing relations, establishing connections between palestinian and american communities is an important element of a potentially more peaceful future. I think the Council's decision was largely about politics, not race. I have always been pretty race-blind, and as an apparently white christian male in the US, I have not generally felt the oppression of racism, patriarchy etc. which has enabled me to be less aware of these forces as they work in others and in our communities than I might otherwise be.
I get some sense of the seething racism that lives in the hearts of some americans when I hear potshots at Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or when I review the FBI tracking of MLK Jr. or when I hear Imus talk about nappy-headed hos. From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Read that somewhere. I think the Council's decision was primarily political and expedient. A chance for community leadership in the world was tossed away because several Council persons were political and weak. I don't know what part race plays in all this. Race is fungible. It is a social construct, it is not a biological reality even though it is clearly a sociological reality. I think the council's decision was primarily about politics and weakness, not race. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me.
righto..
Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 6:57am.RE: "I think the Council's decision was largely about politics, not race..."
I think that to flippantly consider the Councils decision racist ignores some fundamental realities with regards to U.S. policies in that region.
Our relationship with Israel is one of strategic significance, not race..
This thread needed to
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 9:46am.The thread has "disregard"
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 9:48am.Blog etiquette...
Submitted by Rick on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 9:54am....usually holds that one should retract statements by posting a retraction, not by deleting the statement. Then, people can figure out what is going on.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
s'ok Rick, you can call me
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 10:08am.I am in the dark because I
Submitted by Mike on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 5:33am.I feel as if my comments,
Submitted by Norm on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 7:49am.Wha?
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 8:18am.I wasnt speaking as a docent Norm..
You were the one who wanted "concrete" examples, etc..
So did I..
You didnt have any so you got mad. Not my problem, you brought it up..
And yeah I joked about it afterwords. So what. Am I not allowed to joke with you?
I clearly was not belittling you,have never belittled you, and you know it..
First, I said you belittled
Submitted by Norm on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 8:23am.First, I said you belittled my comments, not me. Second, I never said you were speaking as a docent, I simply said you WERE a docent.
Yes, I wanted something concrete. It seemed like people were pussy-footing around it. I think they still are.
Norm..
Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 8:35am.There is no way to tell now, so lets all drop the references to the now non-existent commentary..
What was said was said. Post about it again and I promise to shut up, and let you fly solo on your post.
But do not suggest that I am here to belittle anyone, because you know that just aint true.
I also dont know what the docent stuff (docent is a funny word by the way) has to do with any of this..
To heck with this..
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 8:47am.Im going back to my spaceships..
Good day..
Thanks for the
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 5:21pm.Bringing a seafood fork..
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 10:25am.Bad etiquette..
I think there is some of
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 5:19pm.I think there is some of this unfortunate linguistic dynamic working with the racism issue with the Council.
Division
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 04/23/2007 - 9:19pm.I should apologize
Submitted by Norm on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 1:55pm.This is interesting - and I
Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 4:20pm.This is interesting - and I agree with Jason. Originally posted on AOL, but that page has an ActiveX control install prompt and I thought I'd spare you the potential headache.
Time for Jackson, Sharpton to Step Down
Don't go past the first comment, but do read it!