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Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 1:17pm.
With the New Year coming, I'm thinking of ways to make OlyBlog even better. One long-standing issue with the present system, for example, is that OlyBlog editorial policy has been a bit of an enigma to some. In particular, some have had difficulty with the notion of a community blog, with no one person determining the content of the posts (apart from topic). I've also noticed that some people think of "Rick" and "OlyBlog" as the same thing, as if everything that I say is the Official OlyBlog Position (thanks to enpen for helping me understand this phenomenon). So, with the goal of placing OlyBlog on a more transparent foundation, I'd like to suggest the following changes:
If this seems like a good plan, the first step would be to take nominations for docents. I think that there should be at least 5 positions to begin with. Update: Nominations thus far -- Rob R., Emmett, Sarah, Norm, Jade, enpen, TFI, NWarty, Rob W., OperaGirl...
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OlyBlog.net OlyBlog is devoted to hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. Contributors to OlyBlog are citizen journalists who care about their community and are tired of corporate media. If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our Social Contract. You should also look at our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here. Olyblogger of the Month: Docents are fellow citizen journalists who volunteer to be at your service in order to help with any blog-related issues. They are: Rob RichardsInterests: community building; participatory art, democracy and economics; local politics; citizen journalism. emmettoconnell Interests: City Council, developing a local issues forum. enpen Interests: OlyBlog calendar, Oly street art, local artist interviews, his family, poetry and stuff. Robert Whitlock Interests: peace, justice, nature, nonviolence, media, environment Rick Interests: citizen journalism, hyperlocal media, the knowledge commons. Docent email list Latest Classified Ads Books & Collections ›Blog Local Blog Skool |
This sounds like a good idea
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:47pm.Sounds great, I volunteer to
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:53pm."Only a fool lets somebody else tell him who his enemy is. -Assata Shakur
Is it too pretentious to
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 3:00pm.What Emmett Said
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 3:06pm.Excellent Idea!
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 4:55pm.I, for one, think this is a very sound idea. I know not for which positions, but I nominate Norm, Rob R., Emmett, Rick and Sarah.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
I nominate...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 5:04pm....Jade and enpen for docents.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
Rick stole my thunder
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 5:38pm."Only a fool lets somebody else tell him who his enemy is. -Assata Shakur
All good choices, all good people, but
Submitted by OlyCop on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 8:00pm.I would like to see someone more conservative as a docent too, so I nominate Norm or if he declines, TFI, or NWarty, whomever has time to do the job.
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page." Saint Augustine (354-430 AD).
I think I'm part of the
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 9:12pm.I think I'm part of the problem.
NWarty would be good, though.
TFI
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 10:32pm.I agree, NWarty would be great.
Great idea, Rick!
Submitted by M Kretzler on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 8:31pm.OlyBlog Evolution
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 8:38pm.More nominations
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 10:31pm.nominating process
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 10:41pm.Popularity Contest v. Nomination
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 12:22pm.I think it would be great to increase transparency and promote a more organized structure for OlyBlog.
And if this is a popularity contest, then I nominate bubbaz - he is the obvious choice!
Re: popularity contests - it
Submitted by OperaGirl on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 1:13pm.Re: popularity contests - it usually ends up happening on every message board/blog group I have ever been a part of. One was really blatant and titled "who's your favorite <name of message board> member?" and a lot of people ended up feeling hurt which seems silly since it's on the internet but it still happened. I know that is not what was intended here but I think maybe it's just human nature to want to be loved! =)
Don't worry though - I am never one of the popular ones either! =) So we can sulk in the corner together. Ha.
"She grew on him like she was a colony of E.Coli, and he was room-temperature Canadian beef."
^_^
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 1:31pm.I guess...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 1:35pm....you two are too polite to nominate yourselves, so I'll have to do it for you: I nominate RobW and OG for docents.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
2nd that motion
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 3:00pm.Decency in the Docency
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 3:08pm.Thanks also to Sarah, for your kind words.
I am not sure that I would be a decent docent. It sounds like a lot of work.
In general...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 1:43pm....I think of this more along the lines of a job application, rather than as a popularity contest. This is a community service position -- there's work to be done with little in the way of perquisites.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
I'm new around here and
Submitted by Pattytoo on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 1:32am.don't let the sheen fool you...
Submitted by enpen on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 2:46am....my pate slopes and plummets quite severely, and you're only as outside as you want to be. OlyBlog wrapped my family up in active caring community before we even became Olympians.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Disinformation etc
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 8:29am.I realize that we Americans prefer a sanitized world view, one where we are not exposed to the pictures of people blown apart by our military and economic policies, one where we think that the oil and gas that we consume is not stolen through military power, one where we think that as Ronald Reagan did that trees cause pollution because it allows us to continue consumption without feeling guilt or concern. A world where it makes sense to pour hydrocarbons into bulldozers and knock down trees instead of climbing the things with a pruning saw and a safety rope.
The problem with the sanitized world view is that to the extent that Americans don't understand that our way of life comes at a terrible price for other citizens of the planet, then we will be surprised when they show up at our doorstep someday with box cutters and homicidal/suicidal intent and in the aftermath, in our shock and horror at seeing what death and mayhem look like, we will be treated to non-sensical explanations such as "they hate us for our freedoms" and we are off on a new sanitized holy war to protect our way of life.
The recognition of the dynamics of world politics, global conflict, environmental destruction, justice and equity are at stake on a little blog like this one. What is your responsibility in making this bandwidth available?
Good question
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 9:39am.Our responsibility is to overcome the fear that is used as a weapon to beat the American population into submission so that the atrocities you enumerate can be achieved without vigorous dissent. The way that we overcome that fear is by talking to each other, hence this blog. Further, that is why we accommodate a wide variety of viewpoints: so that those who are more fearful can express those feelings and come to a different understanding of the world. In short it is a process.
It seems that what you have to express right now is anger. That's ok, too. But let's keep things straight: you're not angry at us, you're angry at Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, the NYT, WashPost, etc., etc. It seems to me that what we need here is clarity, not confusion. And we need allies, not more enemies. Anger, while important, is not stable enough by itself to build a sustained organization on. We also need community. The way you talk to does not help build the strength in this community that is necessary to counteract the forces we face.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
Excellent answer
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 10:18am.Well, Olyblog is a great
Submitted by Mike on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 8:31am.But I can't tolerate it. The glorification of violence and stupidity should be shunned.
Angry? Oh yeah. Look at the mess we are leaving for my children and grandchildren. And I claim all the young ones as my grandchildren in my own indigenous human experience.
Thomas Payne was not well-loved or even kindly thought of by the founding fathers even though his pamphlet Common Sense had much to do with raising the issues that led to the revolution in this country. I think the guys like Hamilton, Franklin et al referred to him as a mongrel or a cur.
So I see things posted here that support and sustain the unsupportable. A sustenance of the culture wars that make us Americans uncomfortable and make brown people around the world dead. Given the stakes, I choose to make Americans uncomfortable because I believe that we should recognize that the brown people on the other side of the planet have a simple right to be alive that we Americans constantly abuse.
I grew up in the South with the KKK and the KKK had power until it became socially awkward for anyone to support it publicly. That was a hateful and angry process full of hard feelings with folks like me and my family called nigger-lovers. And I wouldn't change that history if I could.
Today, the KKK shows up as the NRA and the culture wars continue and privileged white folks whine about their pension issues and support the politics of death for other peoples whose interests don't recognize the absolute right of whitey to have his guns, his pension, and his SUV.
I respect and understand the impulse to remain polite and politic in these discussions, but I can do it more easily when we are killing a few folks on the other side of the planet while we continue polite discussion, I don't think I should remain polite and politic when we are killing people on a wholesale scale as we are today. I think in those times I owe it to my brown grandchildren on the other side of the planet to raise my voice and confront the people who support and continue the killing. It doesn't matter to a person in Ramallah or Najaf if the support for their deaths is subtle or explicit, they still get killed. And of course, the blood is not on our hands, right?
We are polite and shocked by the sight of blood and mayhem.
If I and my kind had been more polite in the south with the disassembly of the KKK and its overt power structure, maybe we wouldn't have the culture wars we have today. Maybe the south would not vote as a largely republican block and give us the politics of wholesale human death and commercial environmental destruction. But that polite tradition meant that we would have to stare longer at the strange fruit still hanging from the trees on occasion and that was really intolerable to some of us.
The choice to speak out harshly against the KKK meant you just didn't want to recognize all the viewpoints in the community and to engage them in a meaningful and changing dialogue. Sure they lynch people occasionally, but it takes a lot of polite talk to help folks realize how awful that is. A lot of us just couldn't engage in any more polite talk with those folks. We talked rough with them. We were the bad guys. We were willing to destroy a polite and stable community simply because we thought that trash like Emmet Till should be allowed to live. What were we thinking?
Today, Emmet Till is probably named Mahmoud something. Where is my sniper rifle?
hey Mike
Submitted by enpen on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 2:33am.I'm all for you making us uncomfortable. I think that's an extraordinarily valuable social catalyst. Where I take exception with your stance is your "my way or the highway" rhetoric. Are we an unsustainable culture? I believe it. Are we responsible for death and mayhem throughout the world to the tunes of political hegemony and comfort? I'm pretty damn certain the answer is "yes." Is a polar flip in American consciousness going to happen if people are brow beaten with the truth? Probably not.
As a thought experiment, imagine our society as one of addicts. Petroleum is obvious and often referred to, but apply it to all of our comforts: our flat screens, gigantic choice laden supermarkets, ready and available food, the connotative association of America = power, our multiple pairs of shoes, our huge cars that let us survey the concrete order we've thrust on top of an otherwise chaotic existence, our burnt same-here-same-in-China coffee, our cheap beef, our one-job tools, and on and on and on.
How many addicts immediately cease their behavior when shown the actual vs. perceived cost? Why should we expect this to be anything other than a laborious and hard earned process? Yes, there are white supremacists in the NRA. As there are in the AMA. Why throw people with some similarities under the same bus? Might there not be a universe where some of the people you quickly eschew are convinced by example rather than pictures or words?
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
The "my way or the highway"
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:48am.Should Olyblog or any responsible venue for citizen journalism allow a person to post an article like the environmental disinformation post that olycop posted a week or two ago?
I appreciate that with a little real investigative journalism techniques - going to the source, putting the stats in context - that Olycop's post was exposed as the disinformation that it is, but there are culture wars afoot and lives are at stake, and by supporting this disinformation post, Olyblog gives traction to the disinformation meme.
I think that's a great disservice to the planet. What do you think? Should a docent or a blog administrator feel responsible for content and "truthiness?"
Look back through the blog and just count the gun threads and how often a different discussion gets turned to the "they're going to take my guns away" meme. Should a docent or blog administrator feel responsible to limit this sad, old meme? It's a rovian tactic that serves an overclass by manipulating working class with an average IQ in the 90 range - most of our electorate, and the end result is a corporate supreme court who will gut what is left of our civil liberties. Same tactic and endgame with abortion, burning babies, partial birth abortion. It's awful, but cluster bombs are cool.
I respect your pov enpen. I think you are ethical and honest. I would have other questions, but they would depend on your answers to the questions above.
In Germany in the 30's I would have opposed any anti-semitic discussion. I would have said, stop the discussion. Censor it. Slam it. Allow it no traction. I would no doubt have been seen as promoting a "my way - highway" choice, but sometimes when you can see where things will lead, you may decide you have to limit your tolerance for a greater good.
Olyblog is not a good fit for me because I am not interested in discussion with idealogues from the right. I am interested in discussion with progressives about how to create a sustainable, just, and peaceful future. Conversing with folks who think sniper rifles are beautiful and that arabs hate us for our freedoms is a waste of my time. I do not believe these folks will not change their minds and they sap the energy of progressives, they keep us busy talking, thinking if we are polite and reasonable with them, that eventually they and we will develop some middle ground that is good for all. I just don't think that is likely.
I only post here now if Rick or other progressives seem annoyed at the intransigence and duplicity of the right wingers with the thought that at some point, Olyblog might decide that giving the bandwidth to the right is a mistake, that it reduces the opportunity for progressives to really brainstorm about how to move this country toward a politic where we want to get clean water, adequate food, and childhood innoculations for Mahmoud instead of reaching for the beautiful sniper rifle.
I don't think...
Submitted by Rick on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 10:05am....it was a disservice to the planet that we had false or misleading information posted on the blog. I think that people can tell the difference between propaganda and weak argumentation on the one hand, and science and logic on the other hand. It is useful to go through the processes of refuting the wrong-headed thinking on the blog, in full view, for everyone to see. In fact, it is a public service, and you're missing a huge opportunity to educate people by not engaging folks who think in ways that you find destructive to the environment or humanity.
The bandwidth is not in short supply, Mike. We got plenty. If you'd like your message to be heard by the good people of Olympia, please take advantage of this channel to express it. But please also keep in mind that part of what we're trying to overcome here is the polarization, because that is what allows the big boys to do such bad things.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
beautiful citizen journalism
Submitted by enpen on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 2:00am."Should Olyblog or any responsible venue for citizen journalism allow a person to post an article like the environmental disinformation post that olycop posted a week or two ago?"
Yes. Rick answered this point with the same reasoning I use for encouraging dialogue, that in order to counter disinformation memes "(i)t is useful to go through the processes of refuting the wrong-headed thinking on the blog, in full view, for everyone to see.". While I would substitute 'misinformed' for "wrong-headed", this is precisely why I think the web and its mass communication possibilities are necessary in the education against disinformation. Without a forum for debate right-sounding ideas remain right-sounding regardless of their veracity (3% isn't an amazingly huge amount worth being alarmed over, for example). The web and OlyBlog make it so that a docent or a blog administrator need not be solely responsible for "truthiness", rather, we all are. As Dan Gillmore says in We the Media: "To the extent that people become more engaged with the events around them, and especially to the extent that they become journalistic activists, they will be making better citizens of themselves. Tomorrow needs them." Our History books are littered with all kinds of falsifications that went unchallenged to the point of becoming cultural doctrine precisely because there wasn't a mass forum available for those who knew the truth. Forums like OlyBlog are precisely where we can try to work against the tides of disinformation memes.
You're right, the gun issue is an excellent example of a disinformation meme in action. As the initial assault rifle bans were directly aimed at disarming a radical Black Panther party, it's true that the U.S. Government has worked to disarm its populace as a means of control and intimidation. Yet, somehow this has been perversely twisted so that people invested in maintaining the status quo are worried about their government taking away their guns, while people arguing for social change are often found fighting for even more guns to be taken away further disempowering the citizens of a corporate sponsored government which openly supports fascist regimes abroad.
The abortion topic is, I feel, primarily an idealogical battle being waged through the English language. Choosing the term "pro-life" was a moment of linguistic genius when what they really stand for is 'pro forcing a woman to carry a developing potential human to term without Quality social assistance after the delivery (and often before) despite its ramifications upon her body and mind, but, to expect said society's scorn should the developing potential human develop into a criminal." Instead of having to defend this position the anti-choice crowd automatically assumes the moral high ground of protecting life whether or not they believe in protecting the lives of non-Americans, other animals, reptiles, and plants (as the name actually denotes). How do we work against such a thing? Again, I contend, by publicly contesting it and exposing its twisted logic (by publicly repeating its inconsistencies even when speaking with those who know, for example).
You bring up the example of Nazi Germany to exhibit the value of censorship. I would contend that anti-Jewish sentiment gained such a foothold precisely because it wasn't publicly addressed at an early stage, rather the Nazi party was seen as a bunch of fringe lunatics not worth the time and energy to actually address. Once the Nazi party gained power and the concentration camps were running the majority of Germany lived in ignorance as to what actually happened to their former neighbors. Would that the web had been available then so that images, videos and first person accounts could be quickly disseminated amongst the ignorant masses. While I (and I'm guessing you as well) told anyone and everyone that inhumane attrocities would naturally result from a war with Iraq it certainly didn't crack the veneer of social ignorance enough to stop the attack, so imagine how long even more people would continue to buy Bush Corp.'s lies about torture, rape and wanton murder being committed in the name of America without the mass public forum of the internet. Citizens of the Earth are now able to constantly provide us with the facts necessary to turn people away from disinformation who would otherwise be too passive to question or were caught within its meme. What good does that information do us if we're not actively using it to contest further attempts to obfuscate and/or lie?
My ideal society has the freedom to make choices based on verifiably factual information. I see OlyBlog as a great start in separating fact from fiction.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Sometimes
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 10:58am.Smile, me too
Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 3:25pm.but with the roll of eyes and a shake of the head. That's about the most patronizing post yet by enpen.
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page." Saint Augustine (354-430 AD).
oh please
Submitted by enpen on Tue, 12/26/2006 - 1:49am.Patronizing? And just who have I managed to treat in a condescending manner? Or wait, you meant that in the sense that my post exhibited about the greatest trade with the "business" (i.e. OlyBlog)? Or, no...you're not...no way are you attempting to dismiss my response without any actual thoughtful analysis on your own part by labeling it "patronizing", are you?
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Nice to have you back Mike
Submitted by OlyCop on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 12:45pm.With you gone, I had to resort to reading the comics for a laugh.
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page." Saint Augustine (354-430 AD).
all animosity aside
Submitted by enpen on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 2:36am.Do you have a response to his points, or just snide comments?
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
Nope
Submitted by OlyCop on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 6:40am.Actually I should have resisted the snide comment as I have done with Mike in the past.
I have given up trying to discuss things with Mike. Mike comes across here as a very close minded individual. And his style, more than his beliefs, just pisses me off.
"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page." Saint Augustine (354-430 AD).
There is no point
Submitted by Norm on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 10:46am.I don't suffer fools gladly, but
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 12/23/2006 - 12:13pm.Neither can I make you little. Be big. Be smart. Be brave. I have some hope for you that is independent of whether you have any interest or understanding of my hope for you.
Wow
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 7:14pm.no kidding
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 7:21am.If I'm a docent...
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 4:11pm.Cookies and pony rides for all!
Also, I'd really prefer not to be one.
Doesn't Donuts for Decent Docents = Doughy Docents?
Submitted by stevenl on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 4:41pm.So, back on track here, folks. How will the docents be selected?
Election option: Since Rick has thrown this idea into the ring, I propose he manages the elections, with an extra ballot space for not having docents at all and exploring an alternative method of managing this thing of ours. I would also like to read a statement by each nominee before voting.
Appointment option: As the founding father of OlyBlog, I think it is perfectly within Rick's right to simply appoint a board, and we can have an election down the line after we see how it works. After all, even though he might be modest about this, Rick is the one who has set the tone here and got the ball rolling.
Election/Appointment of representatives: Maybe board positions could be classified into categories (e.g. Downtown rep, Environmental watch, Events, Dadaist, etc.) and OlyBloggers could run for certain jobs that need to be done?
Just brainstorming.
I like the idea of Rick
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 5:24pm."Only a fool lets somebody else tell him who his enemy is. -Assata Shakur
Hopefully...
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 11:20pm.This doesn't turn out like Lord of the Flies.
Me too
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 12/25/2006 - 12:03pm.How on earth did I miss this
Submitted by NWarty on Mon, 01/22/2007 - 11:01am.How on earth did I miss this thread?
Been pretty busy folks. Lurking a lot and not posting too much these days.