Walking in downtown Olympia

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Walking in downtown Olympia

Submitted by Rick on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 12:49pm.

Good public policy needs data. Use this thread to record all walking trips in downtown Olympia, including information about any obstructions encountered.

Rick's blog
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11/25/06

Submitted by Rick on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 12:52pm.

2 miles. No obstructions.

When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow

i think a long line buying tickets..

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 1:11pm.

i think a long line of people buying tickets at the Capitol playhouse would count as an obstruction..

Even if they pass the ordinance, the people standing on said ticket line would have to move if somebody asked them to.

The ticket purchasers would not be allowed to "intentionally" block a pedestrian.

(hence the Pedestrian Union)

We will be there to call the cops, and get the "pedestrian blocking" ticket purchaser hauled away..

(Maybe the yuppy ticket purchaser will get *mad*, and throw a punch maybe..)

snicker..

Lights!

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 1:49pm.

I was chatboxing (doesn't that sound cool? i think i just made it up) with enpen about this last night. One "obstruction" to people may be how dark it is downtown. I walked downtown around 7:30 last night to catch a game of pool at The Brotherhood. I was intentionally looking for things that might have somehow created this perceived danger. Well, it is really dark downtown, even on 4th, 5th, and State, which are the places to go for nightlife. When you get down to the State, and a show is going on, all the lights are turned on, and it's really cool. The few blocks east of that (think Clipper, Voyeur, etc) are really dark. To somebody who is used to downtown it's not scary at all, you know what to expect, if you're not, you may get freaked out by those scary Greeners outside of The Eastside. Or the freaky hipsters in front of Le Voyeur. Or whoever hangs out at the Clipper these days (who the hell hangs out at the Clipper these days?)

I'm not saying we should turn downtown into Times Square, but more light would be nice, and a non oppressive way to tackle perceptions. Having lights on downtown would create a sense of "openness", by that I mean Open For Business. If you wanted to buy a pair of shoes but all the lights were off at the shoe store when you drove by, would you bother parking or would you wait until it looked like the place was open? The city should focus on making downtown look open.

I've realized there's no point in trying to convince someone that they're morally wrong about certain issues, you'll just never win that argument, a person will not admit that they were acting immorally; best to use other means and allow them the space to realize on their own that they were wrong. In the same vein, I believe it is pointless to completely disregard the perceptions of those who say that they are afraid. We, and by we I mean people that grew up, live, work, hang out, shop, etc, etc downtown, know that there is REALLY nothing to be afraid of. But we're not dealing with reality, we're dealing with perception. So perhaps we should think about easy ways, that don't target anybody, to help people change their perceptions of downtown.

"Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts

We should stick to the ordinance..

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 2:08pm.

We should stick to talking about this evil ordinance and how bad it is..

Lets not lose track of this..

We can talk about solutions later.

Well....

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 2:23pm.

I think we've got the council at a point where it's looking for solutions. They heard the outcry from the members of the PPU and other h.o.m.e.l.e.s.s. people and advocates and, perhaps, took it to heart. As we fight these amendments, I think we need to also provide solutions that will work to combat the "real" problem.

"Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts

RE: "I think we've got the council at a point where it's

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 2:33pm.

Rob,

I remain unconvinced..

The Olympia City Council has lied throughout this whole process.

I cannot believe I voted for a City Council that *LIES* to its citizens..

If the no-sitting ordinance passes, all of the Council Members who support it will be ousted..

Mark my words..

This no-sitting ordinance unfairly targets the homeless..

These liars fully understand this and should be ashamed..

And I will help to bring that shame...

Your preachin to the choir bub

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 2:46pm.

I agree with your outrage, I'm outraged as well. As somebody who spends everyday with my homeless friends, I'm outraged. We scored a victory on Tuesday night, because we made them stop and think, and now that we have them on their heels, we need to keep the press on. I don't think it's very constructive to simplify things to the extreme that we just think of them as liars. They each have reasons for the things they do. I'm sure I'll get some shit for saying this but I don't think these amendments were proposed just so that the homeless would be targeted, for some reason I can't believe that. Let me tell you, I wish I did, it would be a lot easier if the whole world was black and white and I could just call them bigots and it's true. It's not though, I don't believe that any member of the council (yeah, even Doug) would pass a law with the sole intention of hurting houseless or poor people. Again, maybe I'm naive. None of that REALLY matters however because these amendments do, unintended or not, hurt poor and houseless people.

I really believe that Tuesday night was a victory for justice, and that it is on us to keep the pressure on and allow the council to back off and try something else. I don't think much will be gained from slandering them, except a further divide between our city government and our service organizations.

"Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts

No slander,

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 2:51pm.

It was said right to their face..

And I caught them in it during email correspondence..

You can believe what you want Rob..

They knew what they were doing..

They deserve shame, specifically for *LYING* to us all.

What he said..

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 2:52pm.

"None of that REALLY matters however because these amendments do, unintended or not, hurt poor and houseless people...."

Lets stick to this...

I think the difficulty

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 3:39pm.

I think the difficulty here is that the perception problem doesn't have to do with an inaccurate perception of downtown. It has to do with an inaccurate perception of homeless people.

People aren't complaining that it's too dark downtown, or that there's too much litter, or that the pavement isn't properly maintained. They complain that there are a lot of homeless people and drug addicts. There are. So what?

The mistake our opponents make is to assume that homeless people are dangerous. That the mentally ill are unpredictable. That junkies are desperate. We hear, then, that to walk downtown is to take one's life into one's hands. Not because of anything particular about the streets and buildings themselves, but because of the people.

You may be right, Rob, that we'll never convince them that they are wrong. Maybe it is ineffective to challenge their views directly; and if this is the case then I will insist that downtown is for the poor and NOT for the rich.

But I still think it is possible to create change.

The Canaanite's Call

The least among us typically

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 4:35pm.

The least among us typically become the scapegoats for the ills of the haves. We wouldn't be having this conversation if businesses were doing well in downtown. This conversation about downtown has NOTHING to do with houseless people and everything to do with making an inclusive downtown. Why aren't people coming downtown, because it has become stagnant to them. They CAN shop elsewhere, get better deals and get everything they need. Where is the motivation to come downtown?

Bringing the poor and houseless into this is a ruse, it's a smokescreen so that we don't have to put in a whole lot of work to "fix" our downtown. These amendments, and ordinances in the past, have been a very easy answer to a complex set of questions. We can gain something, I believe, by reframing this debate away from where it's at, and to the real problem: people aren't shopping/hanging out downtown enough so businesses are feeling the effects of this. As goes downtown, so goes the city. People pick up on the fact that the city is struggling and start trying to figure out why. Some people don't spend much time really trying to figure it out, so the poor are blamed. They are visible, and can be easily moved without a public vote, just convince the council. It's easier that way. If we are really concerned about more than just the poor of Olympia, but all of Olympia, then we have to work on solutions that will solve problems, and not target anyone. We should beware not to target anyone either.

"Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts

RE: "People pick up on the fact that the city is struggling.."

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 4:51pm.

RE: " People pick up on the fact that the city is struggling and start trying to figure out why..."

The city isnt struggling.

We have like 4% unemployment around here..

Olympia is fine..

And safe...

Good write-up Rob.

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 6:00pm.

Good write-up Rob.

absolutely

Submitted by enpen on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 10:07pm.

right on

"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."

More Light

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 5:00pm.

Personally, I am opposed to more lights. We have enough light pollution as it is. I am becoming desensitized to the natural light that exists, the star light at night. I would rather find solutions to the security problems that make people want to do away with the sweet darkness.

Dark is good...

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 6:52pm.

Dark is good...

You cannot stargaze with too much light pollution..

wishful thinking?

Submitted by enpen on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 10:11pm.

I think you're reaching here, Mr. Whitlock. Perhaps if we gave every citizen a pair of night vision goggles, then we could allay these fears. Otherwise, it's a time honored tradition/habit/mechanism of humanity to fear that which cannot be seen...sign of active imaginations.

"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."

Protective Mechanism

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 10:32pm.

Yes, there is a good reason that we fear the dark. It is a protective mechanism. I guess what I am trying to say here, dear monsignor enpen, is that I would like to see money spent on recreation programs, education - really anything except street lights. Sure, perhaps a minimum of lighting is necessary to maintain safety, but I don't think spot lights will solve problems, people will just go where they aren't in the focus of the beam...

My problem with lights is the light pollution. I would prefer a darker ambiance. I would prefer to be able to see the stars when it's clear. The auto mall is a huge culprit for light pollution. Perhaps when we find economic justice, some day down the long and twisting road of progress, there will be no need to contaminate the night sky with blazing light in order to protect against thievery and vandalism...

That's the thing I miss most

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 10:38pm.

That's the thing I miss most about living in the middle of nowhere. I loved showing people different constellations ( I butchered that spelling I'm sure ) and various satellites, it's hard to do that with all the lighting here.

I don't get it

Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 10:54pm.

I walk all over downtown Olympia all the time, day and night. Rain or shine. Been doing it for years. Mostly I love the walking and downtown is meant to be walked. I've never once encountered people acting as obstructions. I've lived in plenty of huge cities, New York and Los Angeles amongst them. I've never enountered people that were obstacles there either.

I find myself in downtown Olympia during the wee morning hours. When the homeless are snug in the doorways that have become their beds. I am humbled by this sight Perhaps the best testimony about the safety of a city is if people feel safe enough to sleep in public. The homeless are no fools, they would not be sleeping in the downtown doorways if it were not safe.

By the time the sun is coming up and activity is stirring, they clear out. Most leave without a trace of ever being there. Where they go during the day I don't know, I can only hope they feel as safe as they do during the nights in their doorways.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^

You're right...

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/26/2006 - 11:42pm.

That's true for me and most people I talk to that are used to being downtown. As I said before, however, we aren't dealing with reality, we're dealing with perception. That's the part of this whole thing that I kept getting stuck on. My initial reaction to the voicing of peoples perceived fears was, basically, F that - those people need to get over their hangups. It's a tough position for the city to be in, because the people call on them to do something about their perceptions. At the same time, we, by that I mean poor people and poverty activists and advocates, are there to say, "Hey, don't try to pull that classist BS on us, take your amendments and shove 'em somewhere."

According to the city council, enough people complained about downtown to warrant action. This has yet to be disproven, so I must take it as true for now. The city proposed a couple of amendments to existing ordinances. These amendments made it possible for a group of people, who by the way live under the perception that they don't have the same rights as other people, to be further targeted by the police, essentially creating another wing in the debtor's prison, and did nothing to address people's original complaints. We came out in force on Tuesday night and told them emphatically that we did not approve of this, and why. It seems that we may have swayed some opinions on the council. So now the city council (I know, I know, poor folks, boohoo) is in a hell of a predicament. They tried to do something to please one group, and another group was displeased, now they have no idea what to do and two groups are mad at them. You might say they brought it on themselves, and you might be right.

I was talking to Meta about my lights for downtown idea and she described it as a Malcolm Gladwell idea. If you've read 'Blink' it makes more sense. Basically to me, it's a very simple idea that goes right to the heart of the issue. That being people's uncomfortability downtown, now, many of my friends don't care about that, but I do. I think the average person would rather hang out in an area that was lit up than dark. In an area that's lit up, you can see people's faces, you make eye contact, you can get a sense of what they're about. If you're just driving past, you could see that those once ominous figures shrouded in darkness are actually people that are having a good time downtown. What a revelation that would be! I truly and honestly believe that if people who would normally and ignorantly complain about houseless folks because it's easy would start coming downtown they would soon learn that the fears they have are unfounded and that the stereotypes that they hold are untrue.

"Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts

RE: "many of my friends don't care about that, but I do.."

Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Mon, 11/27/2006 - 4:58pm.

I care too Rob...

I take a jog through

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Tue, 11/28/2006 - 8:59am.

I take a jog through downtown Olympia often, most days really. The only thing that I worry about are the automobiles, some of which seem to have little respect for traffic laws and safety.

I harp on this subject a lot, and I am not being facetious. Cars, I feel, are the real safety threat downtown.

Not to mention the g-d awful stink. Aesthetic improvements to Downtown Olympia? Try finding ways to reduce the amount of automotive traffic that flows through the corridor.

I'd like to see 4th Street

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 11/28/2006 - 9:40am.

I'd like to see 4th Street as a pedestrian walk way with cobble stone from the roundabout to the railroad tracks. The 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica, CA. is a nice example of what it should look like (sans Bebe, Tiffany's, etc.).

But, could 5th handle _all_ the traffic?

I think you'd have to make

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 11/28/2006 - 11:49am.

I think you'd have to make Fifth the walkway, especially after all the time and money it took to build the fourth avenue bridge. Fifth avenue couldn't handle the truck traffic from west bay either. I think Legion would work out better because it would make Sylvester Park a part of it and it would lead down to the Lake and Heritage Park also. And Fifth could handle the traffic from Legion.

"Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts

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