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Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 02/19/2007 - 10:25am.
Some very good news for the campers. Also, two members of the PPU's street contingency have been invited to be a part of the Interjurisdictional Forum on Homelessness. This is a big step toward our goal of more involvment in the decisions that affect our lives as poor people. Venice Buhain
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What an interesting day.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 02/19/2007 - 4:45pm.Regardless, I'm glad I did it, and came away with some great ideas on how to make the process more transparent to neighbors of the camp and the community at large.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
For once the anti-homeless
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 8:04am.The majority of people who didn't want to listen absolutely do not want to fund anyone's little commune. And none of them felt that the PPU should just be given five acres. And your offer of returning food and electricity to the community is quite frankly not what the community needs or desires.
Another thing that galls them is the fact that if the current residents of Camp Quixote are capable of building recycled homes and working a garden, then why aren't they putting their efforts in the job market? By your own admission the camp is clean of drug users and criminals so that can't be the barrier.
You turned anti-harrassment into anti-establishment. Don't be surprised that the establishment isn't interested.
RE: work, etc..
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 9:27am.This is lame. Try harder next time.
The fact is that the American Economy is build to run on 5% unemployment.
That means there are more people looking for work than there are jobs available.
Thats also leaving out all of the working homeless (1 out of 5) (i was a working homeless person for several years)
For more info..
This is lame. Try harder
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 9:49am.I don't need to "try harder". I'm employed. I don't qualify for the EIC anymore so I see more of my paycheck go to Uncle Sam. It took almost four years but I'm there. It's the "gimme five acres" crowd that isn't trying harder.
True it took a long time when I hit the streets daily and filled out tons of applications and went for anything I was remotely qualified for. I know it would have taken a lot longer if I just hung around an encampment and felt sorry for myself. I know it would have taken a lot longer if I refused help because it was "demeaning".
Indeed, try harder next time.
I aint your boss..
Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 9:55am.Your opinion is not fact.
You do not know any of these people..
Stop acting like you do.
This is funny! You'd be
Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 6:34pm.Rob & Everyone
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 4:20pm.References?
Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 10:53am.Ehvergreen and Merwyn would be well served to provide some references to back up "then why aren't they putting their efforts in the job market?"
I saw for myself that Tent
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 6:58pm.Quote:
Submitted by Norm on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 7:46pm."Also, two members of the PPU's street contingency have been invited to be a part of the Interjurisdictional Forum on Homelessness"
I'm glad that this is happening. This seems to be a good step in the right direction.
get a job loser
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 12:25pm.Thanks Norm, we're excited about that also.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
So take the day labor job
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 12:41pm.It would be a LOT easier to take you seriously if you weren't constantly changing what it is you say. You have not been saying "over and over" that the purpose of Quixote would be transitional. You've been talking about the residents living off the grid and growing food for self sustainment.
I have Websters New World dictionary right here. One of the definitions for "commune" is "a small group of people living communally and sharing in work, earnings, etc." So, yes, it sounds like a Commune. Just because the residents might not be long-haired hippies doesn't make it different.
Finally, as much as I disagree with the ideas you've come up with, I didn't call anyone a loser so don't put that thought or those words in my mouth. The only derogatory term I've used is spoiled brats. And yes I checked my dictionary just now to confirm that I had meant what I said.
Merwyn,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 4:59pm.Day Labor simply doesn't pay enough for a person to do anymore than just get by, and by get by I mean survive while homeless.
I actually have been saying since the beginning that Camp Quixote will be a transitional housing situation. Typical transitional housing is from six months to a year, even longer depending on the program. There will be plenty of people to run the camp and teach the new folks. Think of the job skills that'll be available. From accounting to stocking to agriculture to construction, and on and on. This is about education and empowerment. It's about learning skills that will get people back on the grid where they want to be, not living off the grid forever.
Finally, and this may be innapropriate, but I'd like to ask you not to say anything on this blog that you wouldn't say to me in person. About me, or my friends. I play pool at the Brotherhood at least three times a week, so if you want to talk in person, look for me there. Have a nice day!
Olycop gave two examples of
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 9:01pm.I'm not one hundred percent sure how to take your final paragraph. The trouble with written conversations versus verbal is I can't see or hear your body tone. Please correct me if I'm mistaken but I'm taking it as a veiled threat. If I come down to the Ho and speak my piece are you guys going to attempt to take the cue sticks to me? The reason I've never spoken to you personally is I haven't met you, I don't know what you look like, and until now wouldn't have known when and where to find you. If Rick wants to electronically bar me from posting that's one thing, but I was responding to an issue that has been posted in a public forum. I wasn't making threats, I was pointing out what I've seen and read, I've used my own experience as a basis for how I feel. If you take it personally that I'm referring to anyone that says "give me, I'm entitled." a spoiled brat I can't help that. Neither can I help it if you take it personally that I don't 100% agree with what you say. Sorry you're angry but that doesn't mean I need to walk on eggshells.
Rob,
Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 02/20/2007 - 6:27pm.I know I have made you mad on this topic and I don't want to do that again. But I have to correct some of your misinformation. My son, who made some bad decisions when he was in diesel mechanics school, had to take some jobs that sucked. The bad decisions ended up with him having to support his family through work at labor ready. He did this for about a year. He now is a very successful foreman with a construction company. And he is considering starting his own company. The bottom line is he was able to support a family of 4 through his work at labor ready.
As I have mentioned I was homeless, and a single parent years ago and had to take jobs that weren't very flattering at the time. But I had a child to care for and had to swallow some pride.
I kind of get the sense that you want jobs that are maybe a bit closer to a CEO position at a company for these guys and gals than most of us think they need to start at.
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." (emphasis added) ~~ Mahatma Gandhi
a piece of the pie not a sleeping bag under a bush
Submitted by hazzardus waste on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 5:27am.we all deserve better for us and society. being poor in the 21st. century is akin to being black in jim crow south. but this way when you talk derogatorily to the bum sitting on the corner you dont have to feel bad cuz it's all his fault and if only he got up of his lazy ass it would be better. thats the pie in the sky dream thats insane. face it we need to help one another or life is shit and meaningless. you got to stop and think about the humanity of letting people slowly die as the poor die faster than you rich housie folk.
I've done my time cleaning
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 5:40am.BCTI turned out to be a mistake but at the time I thought I was going through school to get out of my present situation. After graduation I signed up with the temp agencies. It was excruciating not knowing from one day to the next if I'd have a paycheck. We couldn't make longterm plans since my assignment could end at any time and there wasn't any guarantee that the next one would come soon or be long term.
I lucked out in being assigned to the headquarters of Head Start; they liked me, had an opening, and I worked there for three years. I made the choice to give my resignation thinking it'd be a cinch to find something soon with my schooling, experience, skills and references. I naively thought that between temp agencies and unemployment I'd stay afloat in the short time it'd take to get a new job. Big mistake. Hindsight's 20/20 but this should've been obvious: don't ever quit a job until you've got the next one.
I'd temp one or two days here, none there. The market was gone. I did some factory temp work, I did some outdoor labor, I went back to working in kitchens. These were jobs I hated and which I felt were beneath me and yet I did them anyway. I didn't want to be mooching off my family and friends.
It took four years to finally be secure in a permanent office job again but I accepted everything that was offered me in the interim.
During the hard times I sold all my "toys" (for way less than they were worth), I had things stolen from roommates that I hardly knew, I bought food based on coupons and the Safeway Card and accepted help whenever my church or neighbor would offer it. But at no time did I go to them and tell them that they needed to give it to me.
.................................
Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 7:40am.We need to help the people living in the woods around here.
People who are sick, mentally ill, illiterate, addicted, on their last threads, etc, need immediate help.
Jail is not the answer.
hey,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 8:04am.I appreciate the fact that you and people close to you have struggled. It seems to me that you refuse to recognize that others have different experiences. You worked day labor, got on your feet, and are living the "good life" now, awesome, I give you much props. Not everyone has that experience with day labor. Some people struggle and toil and are not able to climb out. Please try to understand that.
Merwyn,
My final paragraph was not a threat. It was a declaration. Some of your comments are offensive. If I or my friends were black or another minority group, your comments would not be allowed here. Because classism is still accepted in our society, I don't have much recourse. Except to say that I will not tolerate it, and if you really feel that way, please express that to my face. I'm not trying to make threats, I'm really not, but I've had enough of your shit talk.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
If anyone is being offensive
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 7:02am.When have I been offensive? Was it when I used a dictionary to define "commune", at your suggestion? Was it when I asked why the Salvation Army was degrading (your answer convinced me, btw.) Was it when I pointed out a person shouldn't be too picky with their job offers? Was it because I've pointed out your story has changed at times? Was it because I'm not in support of Camp Quixote just being given five acres by the city? (Btw, if a private landowner wants to do that, all the power to them.)
As for me repeatedly using "spoiled brats": my dictionary defines spoiled as "[overindulged to cause] to demand or expect too much." I bracketed "overindulge" because unlike some of the real anti-homeless people I don't think that applies. As for brat, the definition is at worst wrong, at best debatable, so I take back having used that term.
Regardless, the mere fact that I'm not in 100% agreement with you doesn't make me offensive, and it doesn't make me classist. I don't think rich people or the middle class should just have land given to them either. You say you won't tolerate it anymore. You have the choice to ignore me, but you don't have the choice to silence me. It's obvious what you're suggesting or anticipating by requesting my physical presence; I hadn't threatened you, but since you're implying a threat against me bear in mind I'm no stranger to enlisting the aid of the law.
I'm disgusted when people say all homeless are lazy, thieves, dirty, junkies, predators, etc. I want people and organizations to provide shelters and food banks and clothes banks. I don't feel non-agressive panhandling or busking should be illegal. I'm not against people sitting on the sidewalk. While I don't always do it I sometimes hand over a spare dollar. I was against the Ordinance, disgusted with some of the laws and clearances in other communities. Yet because I didn't support some of the ideas of Camp Quixote you've been labeling me anti-homeless. What's wrong with this picture?
Merwyn,I don't care if you
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 8:55am.I don't care if you agree with me or not. I'm done letting you rile me, that was yesterday's imbalance. What I got from a lot of what you've been saying all along on this topic has been offensive in that you seem to carelessly perpetuate stereotypes. You may not mean to, you may not mean it, but your words do. I'm not going to tell you how to talk, but I will point it out when I think I see classism, which is, no matter what you say, just as bad as racism was. The fact that somebody, if they had the resources at hand, could work their way up the ladder doesn't matter. Classism is still offensive, and it's still wrong.
Perhaps instead of calling people names you should try to uncover the emotion behind thouse thoughts and get to the root of it. Ask me questions about your percieved inconsistencies with the plans of Camp Quixote. I am here to answer questions.
Enough bickering, I have too much work to do. Good Day.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
you seem to carelessly
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 9:11am.With all due respect some of the actions from Quixote members perpetuate those stereotypes. From Carol's threat against Kingsbury to the PPU's wish for five acres of donated land to members' refusal to utilize the Salvation Army (which I understand but which other members of the public might not.)
The fact that somebody, if they had the resources at hand, could work their way up the ladder doesn't matter
Again, with all respect, it does too matter. If you feel it doesn't then you're perpetuating the "lazy" stereotype.
Perhaps instead of calling people names you should try to uncover the emotion behind those thoughts and get to the root of it
I'm just asking, are you saying that because I don't agree with you I'm in need of therapy? I don't need to uncover my emotion or get to the root of things, you're the one who got angry (presumably because I wasn't being a yes-man.) I'll refrain from "spoiled brats" because I admit that wasn't helpful in maintaining respectful dialogue. In fact, I apologize. However you should stop accusing me of being anti-homeless whenever I don't follow your exact stance. And calling me classist is ludicrous because what I expect of Quixote residents I also expect from the rich and middle-class, I wasn't singling anyone out.
Normies.
Submitted by Mike on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 8:44am.Same thing here with the bootstaps mentality - I was able to survive day labor, or menial jobs, or homelessness as a single parent, so why can't another person. Hey, just do it the way that I did. That really seems to capture the "my way or the highway" mentality that sometimes get thrown around.
I think it's wise, prudent, compassionate to accept that everyone's experience of the world cannot be judged and understood through the prism of another single person's experience. There are a multitude of reasons why any single person may be homeless and support of an endeavor like Camp Quixote may be a crucial mission to help folks experience the successful transition from homelessness, powerlessness, classist invisibility that affects so many people at one time in their life or another.
Or, maybe Mother Theresa was a complete fool for her life of service? her refusal to be judgmental about the human beings she engaged with?
How about a spectrum with Donald Trump on one end and Mother Theresa on the other? Where do you want to hang out on that spectrum?
The thing is, homelessness
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 8:56am.That's just simply not true,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 8:59am.“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
Why isn't it true? You've
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 6:46pm.I believe I wasn't quite fair with you a few comments back when I insisted I didn't need to seek out why my emotion was what it was. Here's why I reacted strongly. I won't pretend that a one-time clothes donation or the occasional spare dollar makes me an advocate but I've never been anti-homeless. When the Ordinance first made the news I said my piece in the Olympian's forums and was unmercifully torn to pieces. It got so bad that at one time someone was using my name and creating outrageous scatalogical stories and lies; the fact it was during the weekend meant that no one was at the Olympian to delete them until I personally went there during my lunch on a Monday.
I insisted to the naysayers and real Classists that people just want dignity and a chance to get on their feet. I agreed that addicts and predators were a problem which needed to be addressed but insisted not all homeless were like that. I insisted not all homeless stole or stank or refused work or expected a handout, and in return I was called all sorts of vile names.
After taking that for weeks, and supporting the initial incarnation of Camp Quixote, I disagreed with a few points and was called Classist, anti-homeless, offensive, etc. I was accused of believing things which contradict everything I've ever posted on the subject. Everything I had said and done beforehand was forgotten over a few points unrelated to the broader issue of homelessness. That's why I reacted the way I did.
I don't think there's any
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 11:11am.Hey Rick, do you remember the videos you shot of folks way back when? I think the interview with Jeremy about day labor could use some dusting off.
“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world was better for this.
I'm more than happy to meet
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 7:30pm.I get that it's hard, it sure as Hell wasn't easy for me when I needed work. What I won't get is that it's impossible.
I board-opped at KAOS last night for a couple hours of the homelessness marathon broadcast from Fresno. During that time I heard from numerous homeless and formerly homeless who gave excellent advice on what they need to do to get back on their feet. The police in Fresno actually bulldozed their tent city, nearly killing someone who was still sleeping. They threw away all their items including a wheelchair and the ashes of one homeless woman's grandson. Other "criminals" or arrestees don't have their items thrown in the back of a garbage truck and compacted. Fortunately Olympia hasn't gotten that bad.
I've met many homeless people and teens in the past, I'm sure I'll meet more in the future. I knew Carol on a "shoot the breeze" basis a few years ago. I'd say I've met only a few who use or abuse the system, the rest wanted to do something better with their lives.
I agree that maybe it'd be easier for us to reach some common ground, even if it's only to respectfully agree to disagree, in person. However I think it might be a good idea for you to post something here about what it's like being on the streets and trying to rise up to something better when you're able-bodied and able-minded. You've expressed yourself well in other posts so I'm sure you could do it again. I know you've mentioned aspects of it in the other posts but one focused just on that subject might bring all the points to light.
Here's the link:
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 7:41pm.Jeremy on the trap of homelessness.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
Hmmm
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 10:41am.Yes!
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 02/21/2007 - 4:08pm.