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Submitted by Sarah on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 10:42am.
As an alternative to the fuzzy friendly stance the Olympian is taking on Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, check out:
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Goofiness and Ramtha bashing...

I grew up in the hills outside of Yelm, in definite "Ramster" territory, and the whole controversy over J.Z. Knight makes me distinctly uneasy.

I found the teachings that these folks follow to be pretty goofy, but mostly harmless.  The primary objections I found to the Ramtha teachings are the same objections that I have to most New Age teachings.  They are, for the most part, a gross commodification of Eastern philosophy (think "Zen in Five Minutes!").  I find the commodification of traditional religions and philosophies to be in pretty bad taste.  Secondly, and more seriously, they tend to preach a self-centered philosophy devoid of morality.  The goal of the practitioner of these teachings is to reach "enlightenment" purely through a series of inward oriented meditative practices.  There is little to no discussion on how to relate to one another as human beings.

The funny thing about that is that the "Ramsters" (as they are commonly called in Yelm, unfortunately in a derogatory way) are among the kindest people I've met.  The first family I went to as a homeless teenager were Ramtha students.  They generously put me up on their couch for an entire month, practically making me a part of the family.  There was only one Christian that offered me hospitality when I was homeless, a Roman Catholic woman who kindly let me stay in a spare room for three days.  None of the other Christians that I knew would have had anything to do with me, other than to denounce me.

So we have in one town a group of people who's teachings are selfish in nature, but whose practices are incredibly generous.  And another group who's teachings are extraordinarily generous, but who are inhospitable in practice (some of the churches in Yelm have also gone to extraordinary lengths to denounce the Ramtha school, even picketing J.Z.'s house).  So why is all the criticism aimed at the "Ramsters"?
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??

I not well studied in this, Phil, but isn't the idea of this sort of, as you say, "self-centered" philosophy, that once you reach the "correct" (for lack of a better word) level of balance within yourself, that it will naturally manifest itself in one's interactions with others'? I'm not trying to challenge you in any way here, just trying to figure it all out, and your perspective is always helpful.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.

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Do you mean something like

Do you mean something like "right relationship" or the golden rule? The basic idea is that once you are in touch with your real (non-commercial) self and needs, you can see that everyone's needs are interconnected...
see also:
Martin Neimuller
golden rule (scroll down about a page...)
categorical imperative

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Not quite

I'm not sure what I'm really saying, haha. I guess the idea would be that balance of self is equal to balance of the external. That you can't possibly have one without the other, the yin and the yang, twinness, etc. I don't think it's possible to only reach a level of enlightenment in your mind and not have that effect your relationship with the world around you.

If you are at peace with yourself, you are at peace with the world around you, because if you weren't at peace with the world around you, you couldn't possibly be at peace with yourself. THAT'S what I'm trying to say!

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.

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Yes! Yes! Oh, God, yes!

Yes! Yes! Oh, God, yes!
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Right relationship...

Right relationship is a Buddhist teaching, and the New Age movement has certainly been influenced heavily by Buddhism.

Right relationship isn't really taught at the Ramtha school though. It also seems to me that the New Age movement, while it might have incorporated the right relationship philosophy, really doesn't put the kind of emphasis on it that it does on "esoteric" stuff like "astral energy". Think of the best-seller, The Celestine Prophecy. While the protagonists in this book are certainly kinder, gentler people than the antagonists, I don't recall any sort of "right relationship" principles as being central tenents of the book. It was much more about how to channel spiritual powers. 

I think there is a needed criticism here, but as I pointed out in my last comment, the need for this criticism is by far overshadowed by the fact some Christians (evident in the rather intolerant statements they made in the Olympian article on the Ramtha school) are much, much worse at practicing the "Golden Rule" than the Ramtha followers.  In fact, I think a lot of the Ramtha students set a shining example for how we ought to relate to one another.

The point of my comment was to suggest that trashing on the Ramtha school isn't very kosher with me (while still acknowledging the legitimate criticisms that some people have).  I owe a lot of their followers a deep debt of gratitude.
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Not me

My initial post wasn't at all designed to trash on the Ramtha school, my focus is to encourage folks to be educated and to be aware of legit concerns.

I personally am disappointed in the Olympian's coverage today. I believe they could have done a much better job.

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Meta's link on "right

Meta's link on "right relationship" went to Quaker text and the ideas of john Woolman. What you're talking about, Phil, I think, is Dhammic Socialism, right relationship is also called right inter-relatedness in the Buddhist text. The Quaker and the Buddhist interpretations are practically the same. Worth checking out, just google "Dhammic Socialism".

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.

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Phi, you know I'm not at all

Phi, you know I'm not at all trying to deny your experience. I'm also not picketing the place, nor am I a member of a church that denounces the Ramtha school.

I appreciate that you were profoundly helped out by people who are members.

I am suggesting that people read up and research before joining any group led by a charismatic leader. Also that folks read up and research before taking on an entirely new way of life. That is why I titled this Let the Buyer Beware. Before folks invest money and energy, I believe it is fine to check things out, find the equivalent of consumer reports.

The links I listed are good ones and there is a lot more information available online.

Quite a few people have had bad experiences with this group.

This faq about destructive groups has helpful info in it also. One point to make clear (taken from the faq) is that:
An unsafe or destructive group is not defined by what it believes, but by what it does. That is, the behavior that causes harm and injury to the members of the group and/or others in society
I am not a former member of the Ramtha group. I do know a lot about destructive groups, some from experience, and there is cause for concern about the leadership of this particular group.
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Thank you Sarah.

I'm clear that you are writing out of a concern for potential students, and that you are concerned about the exploitative nature of the school. I share your concern here... I had a number of friends as a kid who were going hungry because their crazy parents were blowing all their money on J.Z.'s classes.

Maybe J.Z. should either charge a little less money, or spend a little less on horses and a little more on assuring adequate food and housing for her followers.  There continue to be a lot of Ramtha students living in tents, trailers, and squats out in the Bald Hills, while J.Z. lives in a mansion.  This strikes me as being patently unfair.

Still, there was quite a lot of anti-"ramster" bigotry in Yelm when I was growing up, and I think it is important for any legitimate criticism of the Ramtha school and its followers to be sensitive to this fact.

I know that you intend to be sensitive, Sarah.  You didn't write anything to trigger my reaction here; I'm just pissed cause I read the Olympian comments.  Barbaric.
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*sigh*

I keep telling you folks: Quit reading the Olympian comments! You are great people and by reading them you just upset yourselves. I have pretty much stopped reading the comments, heck I rarely read the editorials anymore. Don't waste your emotional energy on this. Seriously I'm not joking
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On the other hand

You'd miss the commentary by Busty Joiner.   I'm wondering if we could get her to be an OlyBlogger.

"I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
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Huh?

Busty Joiner? Crenshaw are we still talking about dirty books? Cause that sounds like a porn name.
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Oh, it most certainly is...

Oh, it most certainly is...
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Yeah, you're right, Norm.

Yeah, you're right, Norm.
While I'm at it, I'll stop thinking about global warming, war with Iran and/or North Korea, the appalling disparity between the rich and poor, and whether or not smoking two packs a day might be bad for me...
These things, you know, they just upset me. I'll feel better if I don't dwell on them. I'll just go watch some TV or something. Or read some Harlequin novels. Or stare at the wall. Geez!
Maybe upset is a sign of life. Maybe upset is what happens when you go outside your comfort zone.
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maybe don't sign that contract

JZ Knight is suing another spiritual teacher, check out Jim Anderson's quick take on the matter: enlightenment is copyrighted
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