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Submitted by Sarah on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 10:42am.
As an alternative to the fuzzy friendly stance the Olympian is taking on Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, check out:
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Goofiness and Ramtha bashing...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 11:51am.I found the teachings that these folks follow to be pretty goofy, but mostly harmless. The primary objections I found to the Ramtha teachings are the same objections that I have to most New Age teachings. They are, for the most part, a gross commodification of Eastern philosophy (think "Zen in Five Minutes!"). I find the commodification of traditional religions and philosophies to be in pretty bad taste. Secondly, and more seriously, they tend to preach a self-centered philosophy devoid of morality. The goal of the practitioner of these teachings is to reach "enlightenment" purely through a series of inward oriented meditative practices. There is little to no discussion on how to relate to one another as human beings.
The funny thing about that is that the "Ramsters" (as they are commonly called in Yelm, unfortunately in a derogatory way) are among the kindest people I've met. The first family I went to as a homeless teenager were Ramtha students. They generously put me up on their couch for an entire month, practically making me a part of the family. There was only one Christian that offered me hospitality when I was homeless, a Roman Catholic woman who kindly let me stay in a spare room for three days. None of the other Christians that I knew would have had anything to do with me, other than to denounce me.
So we have in one town a group of people who's teachings are selfish in nature, but whose practices are incredibly generous. And another group who's teachings are extraordinarily generous, but who are inhospitable in practice (some of the churches in Yelm have also gone to extraordinary lengths to denounce the Ramtha school, even picketing J.Z.'s house). So why is all the criticism aimed at the "Ramsters"?
??
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 12:07pm."He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.
Do you mean something like
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 1:00pm.see also:
Martin Neimuller
golden rule (scroll down about a page...)
categorical imperative
Not quite
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 1:25pm.If you are at peace with yourself, you are at peace with the world around you, because if you weren't at peace with the world around you, you couldn't possibly be at peace with yourself. THAT'S what I'm trying to say!
"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.
Yes! Yes! Oh, God, yes!
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 1:31pm.Right relationship...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 2:58pm.Right relationship isn't really taught at the Ramtha school though. It also seems to me that the New Age movement, while it might have incorporated the right relationship philosophy, really doesn't put the kind of emphasis on it that it does on "esoteric" stuff like "astral energy". Think of the best-seller, The Celestine Prophecy. While the protagonists in this book are certainly kinder, gentler people than the antagonists, I don't recall any sort of "right relationship" principles as being central tenents of the book. It was much more about how to channel spiritual powers.
I think there is a needed criticism here, but as I pointed out in my last comment, the need for this criticism is by far overshadowed by the fact some Christians (evident in the rather intolerant statements they made in the Olympian article on the Ramtha school) are much, much worse at practicing the "Golden Rule" than the Ramtha followers. In fact, I think a lot of the Ramtha students set a shining example for how we ought to relate to one another.
The point of my comment was to suggest that trashing on the Ramtha school isn't very kosher with me (while still acknowledging the legitimate criticisms that some people have). I owe a lot of their followers a deep debt of gratitude.
Not me
Submitted by Sarah on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 4:24pm.I personally am disappointed in the Olympian's coverage today. I believe they could have done a much better job.
Meta's link on "right
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 7:24pm."He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.
Phi, you know I'm not at all
Submitted by Sarah on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 2:43pm.I appreciate that you were profoundly helped out by people who are members.
I am suggesting that people read up and research before joining any group led by a charismatic leader. Also that folks read up and research before taking on an entirely new way of life. That is why I titled this Let the Buyer Beware. Before folks invest money and energy, I believe it is fine to check things out, find the equivalent of consumer reports.
The links I listed are good ones and there is a lot more information available online.
Quite a few people have had bad experiences with this group.
This faq about destructive groups has helpful info in it also. One point to make clear (taken from the faq) is that:
I am not a former member of the Ramtha group. I do know a lot about destructive groups, some from experience, and there is cause for concern about the leadership of this particular group.
Thank you Sarah.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 4:38pm.Maybe J.Z. should either charge a little less money, or spend a little less on horses and a little more on assuring adequate food and housing for her followers. There continue to be a lot of Ramtha students living in tents, trailers, and squats out in the Bald Hills, while J.Z. lives in a mansion. This strikes me as being patently unfair.
Still, there was quite a lot of anti-"ramster" bigotry in Yelm when I was growing up, and I think it is important for any legitimate criticism of the Ramtha school and its followers to be sensitive to this fact.
I know that you intend to be sensitive, Sarah. You didn't write anything to trigger my reaction here; I'm just pissed cause I read the Olympian comments. Barbaric.
*sigh*
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 4:49pm.On the other hand
Submitted by Crenshaw Sepulveda on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 4:51pm."I would make it impossible for the covetous and avaricious to utterly impoverish the poor. The rich can take care of themselves."
^@^
Huh?
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 4:54pm.Oh, it most certainly is...
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 5:06pm.Yeah, you're right, Norm.
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sun, 07/16/2006 - 8:28pm.While I'm at it, I'll stop thinking about global warming, war with Iran and/or North Korea, the appalling disparity between the rich and poor, and whether or not smoking two packs a day might be bad for me...
These things, you know, they just upset me. I'll feel better if I don't dwell on them. I'll just go watch some TV or something. Or read some Harlequin novels. Or stare at the wall. Geez!
Maybe upset is a sign of life. Maybe upset is what happens when you go outside your comfort zone.
maybe don't sign that contract
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 4:30pm.