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Submitted by Sarah on Fri, 07/07/2006 - 3:00pm.
I got lost in the prior thread so I'll start a new one on the theme of privacy, outing, respect, and community information. Please feel free to join in.

For community safety, I do believe in publishing information on dangerous people. Sex offenders and others. Unless it somehow was directly tied into the danger level, I wouldn't be posting information on a criminal's family or friends. I myself see hate groups as potential or actual criminal gangs. Photos and names, public info, can be helpful for community safety. But I would never publish home addresses or family info without a lot of thought and reasoning.

Even if personal information and nonsense is published about me. Because after awhile, I would be caught up on their level, in their dance. This would not be a place where I personally can be effective. I know other groups and individuals make other choices and I respect that we can have different opinions.

I'm learning and refining my ideas and actions as I go along, as I learn from more experienced folks also.

If a public figure is being a hypocrite and harming our community by pretending to be what they are not, I would consider outing them. Only after a lot of research and thought.

Ultimately I want to be part of community efforts to help us all be safe. Just because I believe that I can do something, just because I can reason something out and defend my actions, does not automatically mean that I -should- do that action.

There is a way that we can help keep each other informed and realistic, while being honorable and respecting each other.

Addition: see Rick's reminder of our OlyBlog prime directive on this issue here.
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I would be really pissed if,

I would be really pissed if, say, someone posted or linked to pictures of my kids with out my permission. I don't care if I am the one who put the pictures on the internet in the first place - don't pull that without asking my permission first. I really don't care about pictures of me - I have a fabulous one of me and Richard Simmons that is just begging to be posted! =)
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WOW

I think this requires some followthrough hun. You and richard simmons, please post.
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Surfing

Bruce Schneier on wholesale surveillance

"Technology is fundamentally changing the nature of surveillance. Years ago, surveillance meant trench-coated detectives following people down streets. It was laborious and expensive, and was only used when there was reasonable suspicion of a crime. Modern surveillance is the policeman with a license-plate scanner, or even a remote license-plate scanner mounted on a traffic light and a policeman sitting at a computer in the station. It's the same, but it's completely different. It's wholesale surveillance.

And it disrupts the balance between the powers of the police and the rights of the people.

[...]

Like the license-plate scanners, the electronic footprints we leave everywhere can be automatically correlated with databases. The data can be stored forever, allowing police to conduct surveillance backwards in time."

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The thing that I'm hearing...

...in your responses, Drew, is an argument about why it's ok to not treat people like human beings. I would really appreciate it if you would take a step back from your program to level the power advantage that the police have with respect to surveillance and consider the effect that disclosing personal information has on real people with real families. Yes, we live in a fear-driven environment right now where wearing a t-shirt that says "Vets for Peace" can get you thrown in jail. The police have an unreasonable amount of power. But these facts do not release us from our duty to treat others in the way that we would like to be treated: with decency and respect. Olycop is a member of this community, and deserves to have control over his own personal information. If anything, OlyBlog should be a model for how to have open discourse, unconstrained from the dynamics of fear and power. Communication depends on trust, and to my way of thinking, you're undermining that trust. Who knows...maybe Olycop would have linked to his homepage himself at some point. That decision is for him to make.

So, what now? I think that there is going to have to be some process of repair. An acknowledgment, an apology, might be a good place to start.

Addendum: I just heard from OlyCop that you already had apologized to him. I'm so happy to hear that -- we want to have both you and Olycop around here for a long time to come. We've got work to do making Olympia into an even more wonderful place. And the only way we're gonna get there is by working together against our caiman overlords.

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Caiman Overlords...*shudder*

Caiman Overlords...*shudder*
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Internet anarchy

I'm with Rick. I'd really like to see this site be a place where people get to interact as people rather than being limited to their defined social roles.

I feel extremely ambivalent about anonymity in dialogue, but I think in the case of this site it can be a good thing.  People are often more circumspect and forthcoming about their particular social role when they can step outside of it.  We have, at times, had the opportunity to hear Olycop's opinions on his own profession.  This is a rare and powerful thing.  I do hope that, now that Olycop is out of the closet so to speak, his contribution to the dialogue here (and ours!) maintains the quality we have experienced in the past.
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oh my

"Out of the closet so to speak..."? You had fun with that didn't you Phil??
Tongue out
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Innocent
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Apologies

So, I guess the question was answered: Bombshell or Scoop? Bombshell.

Oops. Wasn't trying to throw a bomb, and I thought that the URL was safer than it was taken to be. Now it has been deleted. And the site it led to has also been deleted, I have been told.

Yes, I have apologized - and yes, my apology was accepted. Now it's time for some pie, again.

Crow pie, not my favorite type.

We should, indeed, control our own information in most respects. We don't, but we should. On this forum, it has been made clear that most of the folks want the anonymity to remain intact so long as the person themselves wish to remain anonymous. Olycop was playing with this anonymity, inviting us to use our 'secret decoder rings' and guess his identity. I was apparently the first to do so, some weeks ago now. Many people had joined in the game, and a few exchanged private missives with me, begging me for the secret identity. I held out against all these requests, except to require hard work from each student to review the available data and make an independent conclusion. The data is out there, public, and I did not need any private information to make my conclusions.

Once Norm had reached a conclusion and I had safely exchanged a "tell" with him to assure myself that he had the right name, I posted to him a message that I had found the family page - since deleted - and he asked for me to send him a link. I did. Moments later, in what I can only describe as a fit of journalistic competition (OK, I can also describe it as simple hubris), I scooped him before he could publish the link, or the name. That post was the link to a family photo page with captions, untagged with anything which would tell a novice reader what the context of the URL was. The names named on that site were all first names, no surnames. The site was originally built to keep details to a minimum, yet once it was revealed in this context it became a liability in the judgement of Olycop.

While I have never agreed with that assessment of the danger posed by a URL of family photos, it is and was his judgement to make - not mine. That's my regret and the reason I have apologized, despite the differences.

My greatest regret is the loss, to his family, of that method of sharing their photos with each other. If they wish to use that medium, they will now be forced to choose another method of captioning, or another service provider who can authenticate users before they access the pages. A technological solution can be found, but is less likely than simple nonpublication of the photos. And that diminishes their options, to the detriment of our common communication.

I learned a lot about Olycop from his family page - a love we both share of ships that move silently under the seas, a desire we both share for camping time out of the house, and a certain name we both treasure. I also learned things about him which show our differences, but these differences do not diminish his humanity - and I was wrong to publish that URL without checking in with him first.

Rick has taken me down a peg, in terms of my access to the information on this website. The post in question has been edited by Rick, and the page it linked to has itself been deleted, I am told.

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Nicely done

Drew, this is nicely written, I hear ya. I've certainly made mistakes myself. I like the way that you, OlyCop, and Rick handled this together. Both you Drew and OlyCop are valuable to OlyBlog, muchly much. And Rick of course simply rocks, keeping tabs of his 24/7 staff, plus all that mysterious caiman stuff he does also.


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Naw

No scooping from me. I only wanted to throw out some hints and some resources. I'd had a few people ask where I was and I wanted to share that with people. I knew you already had him pegged, i think everyone knew that. I came in late in the game and had a different approach.
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the Ol' Sly Internet & Expectations of Privacy

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I wonder

Other than on OlyBlog, when I post anything anywhere online, I am wondering if I first need to remind myself that anyone with any type of motivations could see it. And since OlyBlog is public I am mindful of what I post on about myself.

Something I keep in mind also is that one piece of info on me one place, another piece someplace else, for a dedicated researcher, eventually adds up. Profiles, email addresses, livejournals and myspaces can all be problematic.


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piecing things together, anonymity, and googling

it does all add up after a while, especially if you occasionally use your real name in conjunction with a regular pseudonym.  "epersonae" was at one point in my personal history a way to be not-myself on the intarwebs, but it doesn't work that way anymore. 

"googling" people is one of my personal pasttimes...I found an old friend that way...and a couple of old friends have found me!

(I do keep thinking of finding a new pseudonym so I can go incognito online again.  I miss anonymity!)
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Yeah.  What are you people

Yeah.  What are you people afraid-of? Anybody who wants to steal my identity is gonna give it right back when they find out how many felonies are on my record!!! Ha Ha, I win.  Really? Like anybody's gonna hurt you. Fuck the media with all their reporting on ID theft that happens to suckers not people who know how to protect themselves---like Drew said.

I have nothing to hide. Feds-----come get me. Girls-----come get me. Criminals-----want beef? U Got it! I'll f@ck you up faster than a Wendy's burger...........why hide???? All these kids that gotta hide are FAKE.
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mmmm.... wendy's classic

mmmm.... wendy's classic triple... mmmm....
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Phil Owen's on the right

Phil Owen's on the right page here with his intitial response.

None of this is to be taken seriously.  I basically stuck a huge disclaimer at the beginning of my post and to finish by talking about Wendy's shows just how serious this is....I typed it sarcastically ,while laughing, Phil picked up on that cuz Phil's cool and Phil knows not to take everything/anything personally.

Phil gets three thumbs up!Cool
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Please try to be more

Please try to be more respectful of people on this blog. You're not sharing your name, either, and no one here will make fun of you for it. People have a right to decide whether or not they share information with those who might be dangerous to them, and there are several people on this blog who have been targeted and sent hate mail.
If you want to have a discussion about ID theft, or privacy, or Wendy's, then present it in a way that's discussable. Refrain from using threats and personal attacks, and I'm sure we'd be more than happy to discuss these things with you.
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OKOK Meta.....that comment

OKOK Meta.....that comment was totally sarcastic, I was laughing while I typed it.....I admit sometimes my humor is a little off the handle.....but my intentions are good.

I am: rgr selfless a mere reflection of the forest bridge medicalizer plants ambassador
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Whoa!

Your comment feels like a drive by and is abusive. Who are you threatening, who are you insulting, who are you?
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I was threatening CRIMINALS

I was threatening CRIMINALS that might want to target me for ID theft.

I was agreeing with Drew that we are each responible for protecting OURSELVES.

Criminals are accountable for their actions just as I will be accountable for my actions in return and that is the way it should be in a just society. I'm sure Norm agrees with me on this one. Drew obviously does.

I also made a reference to a Wendy's Hamburger.  All I meant by that is that a Wendy's hamburger is toxic just as my response to criminals who target me is toxic. All I could do is call the police and that alone would be a toxic response to criminals who might target me and that is all that I meant by the Hamburger reference.

So, you see, I'm not really that bad, I am often misunderstood, probably because I communicate differently than normal people.....it takes a little getting-used-to......

and as far as my name, my name is rgr, plain and simple, anybody who knows me can easily recognize my screen name as my actual name, so I'm hardly anonymous here.
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Really.

As much as I might like Wendy's, your comments are often offensive. Could you try to tone down the bluster a little bit?
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I've said this to Sarah

I've said this to Sarah before, but I can't remember if I told everyone on the blog or not.

At Google, you can turn certain functions on which allow Google to e-mail you if certain names are searched.

In short, you can be notified if your name is "Google'd." It will even show you what they were looking for.

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern."

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TFI, Can you explain how to

TFI,

Can you explain how to do this?

Jade

(A Rose in the Pumpkin Patch)

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Great Tip

Immediately after reading this, I checked it out. It's easy 'nuf.  If you don't have a google account make one (if you have yahoo. you use that address/password)

Choose login
Choose Accounts
Choose Alerts
Fill in the terms

The first thing it did was google my terms for me and sent me an email.  I assume that from here on out, that if someone searches those terms than I will get an email.  You might do several variations of whatever term you search.
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not sure

I don't know if you've got the right application, v-ster. I checked out google alerts, and it sounds like it notifies you when there is new content on a name or phrase, not when someone else googles it.  Google alerts FAQ page.
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Google alerts

Phil is right, google alerts tells you when there is new content on a name or phrase, not when someone else googles on it.

I've used google alerts for awhile, it is handy for learning when new content on specific interests is available.
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And this whole time I

And this whole time I thought it was something else...

"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern."

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