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Submitted by Sarah on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 12:37pm.
![]() I've taken an unscientific poll and the results are in: Yes, Oly drivers are extra crazed lately. Please slow down. Allow us pedestrian types to make it safely allllllll the way across the street, stop with the cutting us off and almost hitting us and making damn sure that we know that if we even dare pause to sneeze you will run us over. Really, you win. You've won already, you are in the car, so be gracious (and law abiding) and slow down. Remember, if you hit one of us, unless you do a hit and run (and we do memorize license plate numbers), you won't be able to get to wherever the hell you were going for a long, long, long time.
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Absolutely cars need to slow
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 1:50pm.Still, it needs to be a two-way street. Today for example, there were pedestrians taken their sweet time shuffling along during the lunch hour. Also there have been many times where I've waited patiently for a pedestrian only to have someone new jump in just as I would have been clear.
At least neither side is as bad as the bikers, I've still had the worst experience from them.
But wherefore thou alone? Wherefore with thee Came not all hell broke loose?
John Milton
I'd have a little more
Submitted by chaney on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 2:27pm.As for cyclists... Well, I'm one. The road just isn't built for us. The bike lanes stop and start all the way through town, so if you're like me and you can't keep up with cars (I have a bad knee) then you'll be switching from sidewalk to road pretty frequently, which isn't very fun for anyone. The alternative, sharing a lane with a car, is fun if you like taking your life in your hand. There's also a ton of debris in the bike lanes this time of year, as it seems the function of streetsweepers is to push branches and leaves directly into our path. There's standing water too, often from flooded storm drains. And there's also those motorists who think it's funny to swerve into the bike lane and pretend they're going to run you off the road, or drop clotheshangers into the bike lane 20 ft. ahead of you, or throw things at you, or scream and nearly knock you off balance from the start as they drive past... Oh, and all the blind right turns in town that cars zip around without taking so much as a glance toward the crosswalk. Or the crosswalks without traffic lights, where 1 out of 20 cars will stop for pedestrians. Some cyclists (like me) react to these things by becoming ultra-cautious, but others react by developing a deep, bitter hatred for cars and cutting them off every chance they get. Sometimes I'm tempted. Competing with a ton of metal can be pretty enraging.
If you guys would like to improve these things, I'd suggest greatly expanding the bus system and connecting the bike lanes that are currently separated. But I know that will never happen.
Transportation
Submitted by Sarah on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 3:45pm.A cyclist friend of mine has the scariest tales of things drivers do. He's had things thrown at him. Drivers have played chicken with him, threatened to run him off the road, and done the screaming thing Chaney describes. He's been followed and cursed at by drivers he does not know. And he is good on the road, he doesn't do anything at all to invite any of this.
Sometimes as I am about to try to cross a busy street, even with a crosswalk and light in my favor, I find myself chanting mentally "Don't hit me don't hit me" at the cars. And friends have seen me outright stop in my tracks in the middle of crosswalks and wave my arms around to try to wake drivers up to the fact that I am present and don't want to be hit.
So I'm especially grateful to the drivers who are alert and reasonable, who actually let pedestrians cross, who work together with cyclists on the road, and who actually stop and let me cross safely in front of them.
Plus
Submitted by Sarah on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 3:36pm.And I cringe when I see cyclists zip across a busy road at night or weave through traffic, especially when they don't wear helmets or reflective gear.
I guess the answer is for us to figure out how to share the road. There are probably stories of all combinations on who creates problems for the rest of us.
Yes
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 6:04pm.I have experienced some of the same problems with Olympia area drivers. There is a problem with the car culture in Olympia that doesn't exist in other parts of the country. Aggressive driving is a real problem in Olympia. It is a big deal when pedestrians and cyclists are discouraged from taking to the streets because of inconsiderate and aggressive drivers' behaviors.
I repeat: This is a real problem.
Just because bicyclists burn
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 6:39pm.I would quickly lose track if I tried to count all the jaywalkers, or all the bikers in black without helmets or reflectors.
If bicyclists stopped weaving through cars, stopped deciding arbitrarily when they wanted to ride on the sidewalk (so much for equal traffic laws), stopped riding against traffic on a one-way, stopped holding up traffic while pedaling less then 10 mph, stopped riding through red lights, and most of all STOPPED NEARLY RUNNING INTO ME (which has happened more than once from a bicyclist yet never from a driver) then I'd have more respect and empathy for them.
But wherefore thou alone? Wherefore with thee Came not all hell broke loose?
John Milton
I havent driven in 15 yrs..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 6:48pm.I havent driven in 15 yrs..
Im a full time pedestrian..
Daily, I see cars shooting into the crosswalk when it is my turn to cross..
i agree Rob, its a real problem..
Drivers with cell phones are the worst..
Seems like everyone is the
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 12/19/2006 - 7:05pm....those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
The difference is that I die
Submitted by chaney on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:50am.So that means a bicyclist or
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 7:52am.I noticed no bikers have responded to the various examples I've listed of how they break traffic rules. I suppose in their mindset if they don't acknowledge it then it never happened.
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
Response
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 8:49am.My problem comes with the proprietary attitude that some drivers exhibit. Surely not all, but a growing number of drivers have this attitude - and the problem is getting worse, seemingly in proportion to rising gas prices.
When I am in the traffic lane, I ride defensively. Sometimes I need to take up the whole lane to ensure my safety. The road doesn't belong solely to cars. People in automobiles must share the road with cyclists. And people driving in automobiles must assume a more careful and cautious attitude in their relationship with non-motorized traffic, both cyclists and pedestrians.
People in automobiles must
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 10:28am.I'm more than happy to share the road with an individual on a bike. I do get upset, however, when a cyclist goes through a four-way stop without stopping. Actually, this is by far the thing that pisses me off the most when I'm on the road.
All traffic signs, including the speed limit, apply to cyclists and cars alike.
I haven't heard anyone here
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 10:42am.Go back to the post on Critical Mass, you'll find that or similar thoughts.
But it's okay with drivers?
Why just drivers? Why shouldn't everyone assume a more careful and cautious attitude?
I notice again that issues I've brought up are being conspicuously avoided. Why is it okay for bikes to weave between cars? Why is it okay for them to ride on the sidewalk? Why is it okay for them to ride against traffic? Why is it okay for them to zip through red lights or stop signs?
And if your answer is "it's not alright" then why aren't you acknowledging that those infractions take place too?
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
I didn't mean to suggest
Submitted by chaney on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 3:51pm.Motorists should be held to a higher standard than cyclists because automobiles are extremely dangerous. This has nothing to do with emissions.
Weaving through cars, I've never done that, so I can't respond. Blowing through stop signs, yeah, but only in the dead of night when I can hear that there are no cars approaching. I get the feeling that these are examples of "cyclist's revenge syndrome," but who knows.
Riding on the sidewalk, however! I have partial tears in three places in the ACL in my left knee. Those particular ligaments do not heal and my injury is not quite bad enough to require ACL replacement surgery. Cycling was a big part of physical therapy for me, because it involves far less impact than walking. However, obviously, I can't keep up with a car. I can't keep up with most cyclists. So where there are inconsistent bike lanes, or when I'm riding uphill, I ride on the sidewalk. Because I feel like I'm not going to get killed there. I don't ride full-speed there, and I ride on the extreme left side (you know, where it's legal to sit) in order to avoid people bursting out of doorways. It's a problem for pedestrians, sure. But the road system is built for cars and pedestrians. It is simply inadequate for cyclists, and we have to get around somehow. And as noted below, it's bloody legal to use the sidewalks to do so.
Again, sure, cyclists break traffic laws, but I've never heard of a cyclist killing anyone but themselves. Aggressive, impatient driving by motorists is an actual hazard to public safety and we shouldn't pretend pedestrian and cyclist infractions are issues of the same magnitude.
Thank you for giving me the
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 7:54am.I have less than perfect vision and am required to wear corrective lenses when I drive. Sometimes, especially when it's dark and rainy, I can't make out addresses for whichever place I'm looking for.
Now I know I can go ahead and drive on the sidewalk to get a closer look. It's safer for me, I won't get hit by another driver while I'm rubbernecking and gawking, and I'll be sure to stay in the extreme left.
Oh, as for the idea that motorists need to be held to a higher standard, implying that bicyclists don't have to worry about too much of a standard: If that unhelmeted, bearded unwashed Greener-looking bicyclist that nearly hit me a few months ago actually connected I would have been injured. He was zipping down the 4th Ave hill and looked to be going over 25. He didn't bother to notice the line of four cars that were stopped (waiting for me to cross. Gee, cars waiting for the pedestrian but not the bicyclist, who's the problem again?)
The only good if there would have been contact is that he probably would have landed headfirst on the concrete, and in his case there wouldn't have been much brain to splatter and ruin the sidewalk.
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
That's Terrible!
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 8:38am.While I don't truly wish
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 4:26pm.Again, the attitude seems to be that bicyclists can do no wrong. All I'm seeing here are excuses for why they should be allowed exeptions to the rule. Yet the bicyclists are claiming that car drivers have the superior attitude?
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
Tough Calll
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 4:50pm.So there Merwyn, maybe You're RIGHT!!!
I have to say though, you certainly come off as having an attitude of righteousness and superiority as well. I wonder why that is.
Superiority
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 4:52pm.Maybe moral superiority. If
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 12/22/2006 - 6:21pm.Rob, thank you for your kind
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 9:53am.I wrote the original post after witnessing several speeding cars, some near misses between cars and pedestrians, and hearing from many people that they were seeing the same general craziness.
One of the many things Oly needs is more sidewalks and maintenance of sidewalks that exist now.
Update
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:22pm.Update: 12:20 PM PDT
I was almost run over while legally crossing the intersection just two hours ago..
The day is still young..
Ill post further examples of drivers almost hitting me as the day goes on..
This morning, at 7:20 when
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:55pm....those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
I can understand why drivers would be sensitive..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 1:06pm.I can understand why drivers would be sensitive about hearing a true story about how I just got hit by a car while crossing a crosswalk legally just a few hours ago..
Given the fact that most of the time its the drivers fault when a pedestrain gets hit in a crosswalk scenario.
Well, which is it? Were you
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 1:32pm.And, as usual, I shouldn't be surprised to see that all points concerning pedestrian and bicycle infractions are being ignored by the non-driving elite.
Lest I be considered a hypocrite: an hour ago a woman pulled out in front of me from the courthouse, requiring me to slam on the brakes (I was going 25); immediately afterwards the truck in front of me did the same thing at the bottom of the hill.
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
Bad writing on my part..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 1:45pm.Ive got my hands full right now, so the typing is off..
I repeat: I did not get hit while legally crossing the crosswalk (yet..)
Just almost..
I dont think you are a hypocrite either..
Just a driver..
(the evilest sort of scum..)
LOL - If I'm evil scum then
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:04pm.When that's over I'll narc all the names and descriptions of every spraypainter I can find to the police.
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
Laugh..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:10pm.When you drive to the diamond place..
Make sure to drive on the sidewalk..
--> Aim for the sidewalk sitters <--
They are the real scum..
I'll ride shot gun
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:15pm.Although now I'm concerned that we'd be run out of town.
I give up Sarah...
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:22pm.When I start posting pictures of car monsters, I know its time to be brought in..
Whooooohoooo!
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:42pm.Maybe car monster makers can secretly start bribing you so that you talk about them often, even in a disparaging fashion, all press is good press.
A car monster..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:44pm.A car monster..
Is needed in Procession..
Just to keep things "Fair and Balanced"
We need way more crosswalks..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:09am.We need way more crosswalks, wider sidewalks, and other ways to keep pedestrians safe from all the motorists..
Here are some examples..
Current Olympia Pedestrian Programs
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:46am.Current Olympia Pedestrian Programs
The Neighborhood Traffic Management Program (NTMP)
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:46am.The Neighborhood Traffic Management Program (NTMP)
I think one of the biggest
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:18pm.I think one of the biggest things needed is not rules and regs ( as stated, your ass can get run over and you can die in a crosswalk ) it's simple and common courtesy, this goes for drivers, bicyclers, and pedestrians, all of them.
If you are a bike, and want to share the road, obey the stinkin traffic laws. We know you can't always go the speed limit, most of us are kind enough not to heckle you, but there will always be a few of us.
If you are a car, slow down and pay attention. Yes, Christmas traffic sucks, but it would suck a lot worse if you put someone in the hospital. Imagine how your insurance will go up?
If you are a pedestrian: Realize you are never safe. EVER. You will never win a confrontation on a street. So if you decide to cross, and you are using a crosswalk, be aware of your surroundings. It's not a happy feeling, but you have to, people are stupid, and stupid people own cars and get licenses. Look both ways before you cross when you aren't at a crosswalk. I don't care if you're the little pedestrian and everyone should be paying attention to you crossing. People aren't always aware, and drivers do get distracted, don't be dumb. Don't assume everyone will stop for you, don't assume everyone will see you.
And of course, have a Merry Friggin Christmas!!!
Fav
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 2:17pm.to all bicyclists
Submitted by chuminator on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 12:29pm.Shoulder vs. Bike Lane - Cyclists may choose to ride on the path, bike lane, shoulder or travel lane as suits their safety needs (RCW 46.61.770).
RCW 46.61.755
Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles.
(1) Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and
shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter,
except as to special regulations in RCW 46.61.750 through 46.61.780 and except as to
those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.
(2) Every person riding a bicycle upon a sidewalk or crosswalk must be granted all of the
rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to a pedestrian by this chapter.
[2000 c 85 § 3; 1965 ex.s. c 155 § 80.]
Merwyn, do you always
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 5:01pm.Yes I do, in fact I'm one of
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 8:02am.There is one infraction I believe I'm in violation of: If I'm not mistaken I'm supposed to keep a garbage bag in the car. In fact, I remember an incident back in the 90s where someone was handcuffed because of it. It made the paper. (There were other factors in that incident, and if I remember right the guy mouthed off one too many times so the officer pointed out the lack of bag and cuffed him.)
Back to your original question: even if I didn't follow all the rules that would just prove that I'm a bad or unsafe driver. It doesn't authorize other drivers to commit the infractions and it doesn't give overall permission for bicyclists to have free reign.
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell
do we all follow the laws
Submitted by chuminator on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 5:05pm.It's a Two Way Street
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 12/20/2006 - 5:33pm.I don't think it is reasonable to expect anyone to follow the law perfectly all the time. What is a reasonable expectation is for people to try to do it. If your speedometer goes a little above 25 mph in a 25 mph zone, I don't think anyone will cry foul. But if you're consistenly traveling over the posted speed, then that is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I am sure there are also statutes about unnecessary acceleration, etc. I think what Norm said is correct, as long as everyone is considerate and careful, things will be much better.
And that's why there's a problem now, because there are enough breaches of respect and considerate/thoughtful behavior to make this a real issue.
Pedestrians have right of way over bicycles and cars. Cars in turn need to watch out for bicycles, because, after all, bicycles are vulnerable. That's what it comes down to. This is about safety.
Correct, it's about
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 12/21/2006 - 8:05am.It's unsafe to weave between cars, or ride in between two rows of cars.
It's unsafe to go through stop signs or red lights.
It's unsafe (for the pedestrian) to ride on the sidewalk.
It's unsafe to not wear a helmet, or bright clothing or reflectors.
It's unsafe to not have a light, or at least a rear reflector when riding at night.
Just because the bike is light and the rider vulnerable doesn't mean the above examples should be committed.
...those who fear life are already three parts dead.
Bertrand Russell