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Submitted by slogvomit on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 12:47pm.
TOMORROW NIGHT @ 7:30 PM at The Capital Playhouse(owned by jeff kingsbury):
» Will be opening night of Jeff Kingsbury's Play, Scrooge the Musical. How ironic. THIS IS A CALL TO ARMS,LEGS,MOUTHS and other dissenting organs. We need your help to blockade the doors of the capital playhouse,cause a raucous and otherwise DISOBEY at the aforementioned date and time. bring your friends, clients, lovers, family and fellows to help myself, my neighbours and the growing population of those without homes and places to go. as of last night the new city ordinances have passed, and will go in to effect on February 1st. these ordinances are plainly life threatening to all denizens of the downtown area. Let's upturn these cowardly proposals. Jeff Kingsbury, a City Council member, directly responsible for the fraudulent ordinances will be starring as Ebenezer Scrooge in the musical. He needs a wake up call. Help disrupt Jeff Kingsbury's 21.00-31.00 priced EMBARASSMENT TO THE COMMUNITY. we will convene around 7:00 at the Capital Playhouse - 612 Fourth Ave. E. Olympia, WA 98501
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I'm not for blocking doorways
Submitted by chaney on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 1:51pm.Thinking? We know the
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 2:16pm.I don't understand your comment
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 2:21pm.As organized as the protest
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 2:44pm.As organized as the protest community is in Olympia, they border on radical and lose the support of the rest of the community. The port protests were a prime example of not being satisfied with what is legally extended to them. I spent two nights at the port - probably 6 or 7 hours in all. I talked to TJ, in my cleanest tone possible, and his response was about as childish as one could imagine. Ultimately he told me if I didn't like what was happening, specifically his role in the event, I could move to Lacey or Tumwater. Very grown up of him... I didn't witness protest at the port - I saw what to me were people who felt like they weren't being heard and took it to a level not protect by rights.
So, now we are looking at organized chaos. Specifically designed to challenge the council's decision. The council will vote and move on. Protesters will line the streets and stand up to the council's decision without thought - pure emotion. If you step back and look at it you become a target of the council's ordinance and are subject to the consequence. I guess if enough people follow, your expectations are that you can change minds. It's a gross form of manipulation and subject to failure. Why not contact the ACLU, National Homeless Advocate, etc., and take the road most would when trying to oppose a government entity? You'll change minds with compliance along the way and due diligence in between.
Apples and Oranges
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 3:05pm.I do agree in the importance of pursuing legal and otherwise traditional channels for dispute remediation, in both matters. In defense of the port protesters, traditional channels of discourse have been pursued, only to no avail.
And, I t think that direct nonviolent action should be pursued whether or not other avenues have been pursued, or exhausted. Sometimes, taking it to the streets is just the most effective thing. And when there is emotion involved, as it is inevitably with human events, an outlet is necessary. I think that there is a place for civil discourse, and civil disobedience.
The important thing in my mind is keeping the intentions pure, that is to effect change and justice - for the benefit of everyone.
I'm not comparing anything,
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 3:19pm.I was responding to your not understanding my post about protesters in Olympia needing to grow up in order to move their agenda along in a manner the community can get behind.
You won't win them all - in the case of the port protesters, I find the actions of those arrested to be out of line and criminal (strictly my opinion and one that will be decided by law). Civil disobedience has associated consequences and if you can accept them, by all means, go for it. Just don't whine or cry about it after the fact and lay blame on others. Own up to your actions and take what may be coming to you.
And it's not apples and oranges. I made no comparision between the two. My comparison was between two separate protests; one that has taken place and was chaotic, the other planned and the outcome yet unknown.
In general, when people are
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 2:23pm.I agree Rob...
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 3:11pm.Nonviolence is the key..
When engaging in nonviolent civil disobedience, it is very important that the participants are trained in conflict resolution.
The message is what matters, not the spectacle..
(Also be aware of provocateurs, they often need to be dealt with in nonviolent CD scenarios)
I'm annoyed by the demonization of Kingsbury
Submitted by M Kretzler on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 6:49pm.I'm with Kretzler on this
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 7:57pm.The town hall meeting in September was the start of a great conversation on downtown. People want to talk about this, to bring ideas forward in a constructive manner. We also have two organizations that span downtown, and represent the businesses and the residents. We also have a very powerful and wise blog that is spurring conversation along.
Does anyone else smell what I'm cooking here?
I do.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 8:09pm.As for plans of civil disobedience, I'm with ya emmettoconnell. Could be really shooting ourselves in the foot. Please read my post "Whoah there, Sparky!" for details on the effects (or lack thereof) of the new ordinance, and my thoughts on it all.
The Canaanite's Call
I smell ya Emmett
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 8:15pm.I'm Smelling it
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 8:43pm.In my view, the ends do not justify the means. How about in your view?
Stealing from someone...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 11:39pm.- Edward Abbey
Folks, the first rule of survival is that you must survive. All the other rules go out the window. When you're as close to death on a daily basis as folks are who work with / are / know personally the people who live outside the economic security of jobs, conformity, and clothes which were washed this week, your priorities are not the same as those whose next fifteen meals sit in their refrigerator, half of which will rot before they are eaten.
When I was a young kid going off to college for the first time, I had that attitude that the purity of intent was what mattered. It does matter. But now that I've been someone who ate from dumpsters for a summer (thank Gaia it was a summer!) I have a slightly different perspective.
Folks, the anger you're seeing is NOT coming from the "usual suspects" Evergreen crowd. These are NOT the people organizing this protest of Scrooge. These are (the ones I have met) homeless or underhoused people who feel a viceral threat in this law, which passed the City Council. Whether you agree or not is beside the point: the anger is real, and the anger is life/death in origin. Do not underestimate this anger, or its expression. Listen to its lessons or ignore them, but preaching at these folks on Olyblog is like shouting into an Atlantic hurricane. If you want to speak with them, get down to the street tomorrow before 7PM and occupy the sidewalks with civility and prepare to have a loud conversation. My suggestion is that you shut up and listen - these folks have not been heard much recently, and they have much to teach you.
"A fool will learn less from the wise than the wise can learn from a fool."
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
beyond the anger
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:37am.Tada!!!
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:18am.thank you for your support,
Submitted by slogvomit on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 8:49pm.thank you for your support, however, myself and others wish to have more effective ways of defying the city council.
Slog Vomit. Exactly.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 11/29/2006 - 8:44pm.The PPU Comments
Submitted by Poor Peoples Union on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 1:35pm.