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Submitted by Summerisle on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 7:49pm.
Totally arbitrary, I won't be upset if you delete this as against policy.
» Recently, an Olyblogger who shall remain nameless (Chad360) described another blogger's speaking about using civil disobediance as "acting like a terrorist". My impression is that the "acting like a terrorist" part comes from advocating something that Chad personally sees as Not Nice. So here's a guide on How to Act like a Terrorist, Olympia style. I drive a car, yes it's true, and sometimes I'm not nice, really not nice, on the roundabouts, specifically after driving for a long time and facing people who don't know how to use them. I want to advance my position, literally, without much regard for other drivers, although what I'm doing is safe and probably legal. But, hey, I'm acting like a terrorist. Damn aggressive drivers! You're one step away from Al-Qaeda! I some times go to the express lane at the super market without knowing for sure that I have less than twelve items. It's my firm belief that I should use the express lane based on a sense that I'm *probably* not over the limit. If people around me stared or something I'd probably ignore them. If a person is behind me who has two items, I'll still stay in the lane and, what's more, won't let them go ahead of me. I'm pushing beliefs that may be unpopular, my idea of usage of the express lane, on an unwitting populace. I am acting like a terrorist. Keep a record of me at Safeway or Top Foods because you never know what an evil man like me would do. I return videos late. Sometimes I think to myself: is it worth it to return a movie at this particular time. I can take the hit monetarily, right? So, for almost arbitrary reasons, for the benefit of my own convenience, I push my belief on Olympia that I should be entitled to have this movie, which other people might want to see, for more days than I should rightfully be able to. Not only that but I'm Breaking The Law because I only agreed to keep the movie for a set number of days. Clearly, I Am Acting Like A Terrorist. The people at Rainy Day should quiver when they see me, and not in a good way either, because next thing you know I might start overturning CD racks and burning LPs with a zippo lighter in a big pile on the floor. I am acting like a terrorist, I live in Olympia, please, Homeland Security, do something so that I won't impose my twisted beliefs on this town anymore.
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Terrorism
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 4:25am.The FBI defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.
Just an fyi for you.
Thanks, Norm
Submitted by jlw on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 3:54pm.stated intentionand that's
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 2:48am.stated intention
and that's why I wish to hold judgement until their action is finished. I think protesting is fine, I get leary of "civil disobedience" which may as well be chalked up to "self-justified criminal behavior".
As for you Mike, I don't want to be making comparisons. Either someone did something, or they didn't.
ELF= domestic terrorism
OK city bombing= domestic terrorism
One killed people and destroyed property, the other just destroyed property. They were BOTH sending a political message. End of story, this is a very black and white subject with me.
With that, I'm out. I've said much of this last summer, and I don't care to rehash the same silly arguments with some people. You have a right to assemble, and you are/should be able to express your discontent with the government, when you hit the "tear it down!" phase, you lose me.
Freedom fighters?
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 6:30pm.Maybe the willingness to inflict physical harm on another person ought to be considered?
If the 9/11 terrorists had just flown their airplanes around and around DC and NY inconveniencing and "scaring" people til they ran low on fuel, and then landed, things would be different in the world today. Once you step off that precipice where you think your political beliefs justify the wholesale injury, maiming, killing of other beings, you may have changed your status. Same thing with the export of wholesale death and destruction by the US military against civilian populations who have not threatened or attacked us. Just my opinion.
In fact, most resistance and revolution movements include a certain level of violence. Solidarity, the fall of Apartheid in South Africa, the liberation of India are models where the level of violence was extraordinarily low. Each of these movements faced a system that needed to be changed and the change was effected with low levels of violence.
There are many in the US who feel that the US system of military/economic violence against the other residents of the planet need to be changed. Most of us who believe that are looking to the low-violence models as the ideal.
I think folks who don't understand the differences either don't want to, or are engaging in rhetoric not discussion, or have intellectual limitations that prevent the understanding.
The absurdity that is
Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 10:33am.But when you start carrying
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 8:00am.Are you implying
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 9:52am.You seem to not get what I'm saying here
Submitted by Summerisle on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 5:58pm.If that's all it takes to be acting like a terrorist, the word is meaningless.
And as for proving the absurdity of Olympia, maybe you should look at the absurdity of the Bill O'Reilly position of who exactly provides aid and comfort for The Enemy, which has been sweeping the nation. In a context like that, it's not too off the wall to suggest that people's perceptions of who is and who isn't pro-terror is exceedingly hair triggered to the point of irrelevance.
9/11 has just given you people another word to insult protesters with.
Quote:
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 11:12am.9/11 has just given you people another word to insult protesters with.
Careful there!
I understand what you are saying. The problem being that some of us agree with protesting, but disagree with civil disobedience. I think "some" forms of civil disobedience could fall under, the FBI's definition of, domestic terrorism. Do you think the same? If you don't explain it to me, maybe I'm looking at this wrong. If you explain it to me, maybe the person you are referring to in this thread will read it and it will be explained to him also. I think this may be a far better approach than a long smart-ass'd thread about you being a terrorist for driving a car.
a touchy subject
Submitted by enpen on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 10:33pm.The ACLU has a nice write up on the ramifications of the ever expanding definition of terrorism in post Patriot Act America.
As well, as per your FBI definition Norm, I think it's important to note exactly whom deems said acts unlawful. Our government runs afoul of its own definitions of "terrorism" on a regular basis.
If people act to stop a terrorist state vis a vis methods said terrorist state deems illegal, are the people then terrorists?
While I don't particularly agree with Summer Isle's approach, I think his point regarding the usage of the word is valid. The post on OlyBlog regarding taxes could conceivably be taken as an attempt to "coerce a civilian population" to do something deemed illegal (failure to pay taxes) and could be, therefore, considered an act of domestic terrorism. If somebody asked me about the red octagonal signs along a road in America and I responded by telling them they're indicators to speed up, I would be guilty of domestic terrorism according to our wonderful D.O.J.. The word is over played and, as I think Summer Isle is getting at, should probably not be used without extensive forethought.
"Anybody who doesn't know that politics is crime has got a few screws loose."
The word is over played and,
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 03/05/2007 - 7:50pm.The word is over played and, as I think Summer Isle is getting at, should probably not be used without extensive forethought.
Agreed.