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Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:38am.
I know a lot has been said about this, so I'll be direct.
» You do not pass a measure like that over the cacophony of objections that were raised, without actually discussing these objections. Not unless you want a fight, or you have some damn solid moral ground. And since it was the moral-minded Olympia community that was doing the objecting, I don't see such ground. The analogy of Jim Crow is right on. In the south, the Grandfather Clause was enacted when slavery was formally abolished, and when rich landowners would all qualify and freed slaves would all fail to qualify. The argument was later made that the Grandfather Clause was fair because it applied to everyone. The same goes for the Poll Tax, literacy tests, "Separate But Equal" schooling, the Defense of Marriage Act, and racist airport security. That double-standard was what made Jim Crow what it was. When you say "Jim Crow," you refer to that double-standard. The "friendly amendments" were insulting. The nighttime clause was a joke. So now the homeless only have to worry for their safety 18 hours a day, and not 24? The sunset clause was just as intolerable. So now police have only 11 months to chase all the homeless out of town, instead of being able to do this at their leisure? And "busking permits"? A Poll Tax, no matter how minimal, is still a Poll Tax. Which brings me to my next point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Laura Ware just assume her "friendly amendments" would be an acceptible compromise (if that was her intent) without soliciting any response? All night long, we heard well-off people talk about how much they do for the homeless, and listing how much they donate to charity. This smacks of the old attitude of "I'm a good white person. I do so much for the poor helpless negroes." It was this attitude that inspired Malcolm X to blanketly condemn all white people as "devils," to make sure nobody lapsed into self-acquittal. If you want to help the homeless, listen to what they have to say. And they came out and told you exactly what they wanted. The homeless community want's respect. If your charity is to be doled out in such an insulting way, then it is not wanted. The homeless are not pitiful souls who would not exist without the charity of good rich folk. Homeless people are people. Some are very hard workers. (Contrary to popular belief, "hard work" does not always elevate your social status.) People in trouble don't need charity. People in trouble need Solidarity. But the issue goes far deeper than just the homeless. This is an attempt to placate people who have irrational fears about the homeless, and express their irrational fears in the form of taking their money elsewhere. It is unfortunate that some people harbor such irrational fears about the homeless, just as it is unfortunate that some people harbor such irrational fears about blacks, muslims, and homosexuals. But the proper response is not to react positively to those fears, no matter how much money is involved. It is to treat these feelings as the irrational fears they are, and to show that punishing others for one's own insecurities will not be tolerated. As TJ Johnson pointed out at the meeting, all the evidence in favor of this measure is anecdotal. There is no study that says that downtown Olympia is in some crisis (although somebody from the city said they would produce such a study as soon as possible). We hear stories of some supposed flood of e-mails in support of the measure. I couldn't imagine a flood of e-mails of the magnitude that would outweigh the public outpouring of opposition (the outpouring we are able to see as opposed to the one we couldn't). And then there's stories of people being harassed by strangers on the street. This is not to say that such incidents have never happened. It is to say that such incidents are not necessarily indicative of the norm, just because they happened to you or someone you know. I know a LOT of people (myself included) who have been harassed by the police for no legitimate reason. But now, one side has been granted a blank check, and folks are not happy. Imagine if you complained to the City Council about somebody harassing you downtown, and they responded with a measure that said "Now anyone can harass you as they please and you will be prosecuted for it when they do." Passing this ordinance, especially as it was passed, was nothing less than a declaration of war on the homeless community of Olympia. This is not an exaggeration. Patrons of businesses speak about the inconvenience of stepping over people in the streets. The homeless have to worry about freezing to death, starving to death, and getting beaten to death, on top of the daily harassment. For the homeless, this is life and death. The proper response to such a declaration of war is not to stand by and allow this act to be forced upon us, nor is it to make some symbolic act of protest so that we feel like "good whites." The proper response is to make this measure completely unworkable for its entire duration, through a multitude of efforts. If it was done to increase revenue, we should do what we can to tank downtown businesses (except those that openly oppose the measure and will refuse to enforce it). If it was done to sanitize downtown so it will appear "safer" to scared suburbanites, our goal should be to make downtown as scary as possible. (Did somebody say "Mystery Direct Action, Sylvester Park, Saturday at Noon"?) And if it was done to tell one group of people "Downtown is for everyone" while telling another group to get lost, our goal should be to make downtown uninhabitable for all. But most importantly, our goal should be to get this repealed, either before or after it takes effect, and to quash any dream the City Council has of trying to force through anti-homeless legislation like this ever again. You have two months, folks. And whatever you do, don't consult the City Council before doing any of these things. Surprise them! Keep 'em guessing! Entertain them with your direct action antics! After all, they did declare war.
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What's this really about?
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 11:53am.I have the same feeling now as I did with the port protests: something is going on here and it isn't about homeless people. You've shifted the focus away from actually developing positive public policy, and toward an unnecessary, futile, destructive confrontation that will, in the end, only make the situation worse.
I suggest that you take all that energy and turn it to a force for good, not chaos. I really hope you'll re-think your intention to make downtown businesses "tank". That will do nothing but empower those who already have a bias against downtown Olympia. If you want change, you're going to have to be a bit more sophisticated about it. Using a club is generally not considered the best strategy, especially when education might be more effective.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
"If you want change, you're
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 3:21pm.I will be meek and humbly ask for change in any situation where I believe doing so will effect change.
"That will do nothing but empower those who already have a bias against downtown Olympia."
They clearly don't need my empowerment to do what they wish to do, so I don't see how that really comes into play.
"You've shifted the focus away..."
How have I "shifted the focus"? This ordinance was the first time I had heard of people being harassed downtown. Normally, I would be sympathetic, but it was introduced as a piece villifying the homeless, and accusing them of all the bad behavior, and then giving law enforcement even more means to harass the homeless than they already have. I'd say "developing positive public policy" never entered into the equation.
I don't get it
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 4:57pm.I certainly may eventually change my mind on this one, but for now I really support a diversity of tactics. Even if I personally can't do whatever, even if I personally think that the specific tactics being used are inefficient, I support a range of response. Just because maybe I don't feel a particular passion with a particular emotion and drive, doesn't mean I don't support the right for people to contribute what they can.
I don't want downtown businesses to tank. But I wonder what will get through to those of us who are criminalizing target groups downtown. Isn't there a place for feistiness in our revolution?
Isn't there a place for
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:14pm.Only when it is well planned and effectively executed.
Look, I've got NOTHING AT ALL against using mischief, rowdiness, or feistiness as effective tactics in a well planned campaign. In fact I've participated in campaigns in the past where some particularly well placed, particularly insidious mischief was used very effectively. But it has to be well planned. You've got to be able to predict the reaction and be able to use that reaction against your opponent.
Certain members of the council might wish to see me burn in eternal hellfire for what I'm about to say... but the fact is that the doorhanger incident in our last round with the council, about four years ago, was an extremely effective tactic. The Downtown Association traded their support for the anti-homeless ordinances for a personal, written apology from the pranksters. I tell you I'd apologize for anything to stop a "quality of life" law from passing. That's effective.
Spontaneous, unplanned, "in your face" type action is NOT effective though. It does little more than to save face when one is losing. We don't need to save face because face isn't important. Building a strong movement for inclusion is important. Building community is important. Stopping discrimination is important. You get the picture.
The Canaanite's Call
I do get the picture
Submitted by Sarah on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 6:40am.Yes, in fact, he has.
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:01pm.Or is trying to. He's shifted it away from any kind of constructive discussion. By emphasizing the conflict in the situation, he's creating more polarization, reinforcing stereotypes, confirming implicit assumptions, and a whole host of other BAD THINGS that will make it harder to negotiate, much less reach consensus on, this important issue.
Does anyone really think that the folks who supported this change in the ordinance will be swayed or convinced of anything by this kind of action? It is precisely like the port protest, where the "tear it down" message did nothing but alienate 75% of the population of Olympia. I'm all for creative responses to difficult situations, but not responses that create MORE conflict.
When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
"Shifted"?
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 9:55am.The folks who supported this change don't seem to care if the homeless of this city starve to death, choosing instead to call us "bums" and "vagrants." I hate to put it so uncaringly, but that's the truth of it. Such a relationship is not a basis from which to begin dialoguing with anyone. We have to earn peoples' respect before having that discussion.
I do believe in opening a dialogue with the community. But I don't believe in having dialogue when somebody's trying to bash your head in with a billy club. I also believe this ordinance is just such an act of violence, although done quietly, and spread out over many months.
My basic point is that this ordinance is completely outrageous, and should not be excused in some attempt to reach out to those who would have us starve to death. It needs to be repealed, NOW. Then, the discussions can begin.
Tear it down?
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 12:05pm.FYI re:tear it down
Submitted by POLDF on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:16pm.The slogan actually comes from the Port Commissioners themselves, you know.
At a December 2004 meeting they almost chanted "Tear it Down" in their gleeful expression for demolishing a surplus building on their property.
Protesters are just following the lead of their elected officials.
Enlightening, but it doesn't
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:23pm.Use of "Tear it Down"
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 7:20pm.Actual History...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 10:31pm.This was essentially a battle cry of some people about to experience pepper spray and arrest while unarmed. It rallied the marchers and became a point of solidarity and an 'inside joke' for the PMR participants / Oly 22. It's also a solidarity cry at our meetings. The Marines have theirs - "Booya, Sure Ya Betcha" or somesuch. Ours is better. ;P
The history of our resistance to the Port's use by the military for this illegal war also included public art, alternative economic models for development through the port, a search for viable antiwar Port Commissioner candidates, a signature campaign to change the name of the Port (and get a kind of referendum on the policy, county-wide). Please don't take the phrase as a kind of policy statement, but rather understand that it's like our own culture. Bits of it don't make sense out of context, or should be discarded if their original meaning is intended. Consider:
"Rule of thumb." = You can beat your wife with any stick smaller around than your thumb and that's legal. We use the phrase even though NO ONE still believes that is OK as public policy. Unless she's a consenting adult and you're into that kind of thing and wear leather and stuff. Fnord.
"He knows if you've been sleeping, he knows if you're awake, he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake!" = really creepy if you are singing about the NSA, slightly less creepy if you're singing about Satan / Santa. (hey, they're both supernatural beings who wear red and slip into your house without an invitation!)
You get the idea.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Use of "Tear it Down" Slogan
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 11:13pm.Of course, this is just my opinion, and I do think it's important to have a diversity of tactics. But I think it's important for me to voice my opinion and feelings on this matter. I think it's important to have fun, but having fun at the sake of others feelings isn't welcoming or inclusive in any sense. Deriving pleasure from the poking of fun at others is mean and coarse. It shows bad taste and a lack of tact. I don't disagree with the principle of "tear it down" entirely - I think that in order for some of the changes that will benefit society, older restrictive institutions and paradigms will have to be removed. But the hope is that this will be done consensually. If we want a better society, we would be wise to attempt to build it cooperatively. "Tear it down" cuts people down, excludes them, passes judgement, burns bridges, etc.
I don't have to like everything. And I have been known to change my mind. But the chances are that you won't hear me shouting "tear it down" any time soon. Though I have been feeling a little cantankerous at times recently.
In the Course of Events
Tear it down!
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 10:15am."TEAR IT DOWN!!!"
The slogan means two things to me. First, it's a statement of not being willing to compromise certain things, which I think is a staple of the entire peace and justice community. For instance, you don't put a warhawk who wants to see one million people die next to a peacenik who wants to see nobody die, and then say, "OK, Let's compromise. How about 500,000 people?" No, nobody should die from illegal war. That's simply non-negotiable. I'll debate with warhawks, but I'll hold no illusions about talking to them and convincing them that war is bad as they continue to support murder. And if you're one of the apolitical bystanders, I'd say you're more likely to respond positively to a show of strength from people with firm moral grounding, who constantly assess and reassess their actions and their goals and who know exactly why they're doing what they're doing, than to respond positively to a weekend signholding that doesn't seem to have any clue how it's going to get from that stage to the point of achieving their goals.
The second thing is a statement about the Port of Olympia itself. When we say, "Port of Olympia - Tear it down!", though it has a bit of hyperbole, we have a clear message. If the port is going to be used to help murder poor people no matter what, and if the only way to not help murder poor people is to not have a port, then we don't want a port. End of story.
Plus, it has endless joke potential. "Air America - Tear it down!" A couple of us started using it to make fun of liberal reformists: "War machine - More humane! War machine - More humane!" The best was on my birthday, when we marched around chanting, "Wally's birthday - More humane! Wally's birthday - More humane!"
Fun and Hurt
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 12:15pm.Approaching someone, and saying, "we want to tear down your beliefs, your building, your being..." is threatening, violent and certainly alienating to the target of the slogan calling.
I understand what you are saying about those who promote the war, that they aren't capable of listening. But I still don't think "tear it down" sloganry is helpful to the goal of promoting peace and doing away with war. It seems only to be effective in entertaining sloganists. Maybe I have a hard time understanding this, because for some reason I don't enjoy the slogan, it only makes me feel uncomfortable. It seems to me, to be designed to poke fun at people, or to cause emotional hurt. I don't think that is appropriate (though I am probably guilty of it at times myself) or effective, even if the target is Dick Cheney, captain crusader himself. It feels mean to me and I don't like it.
In the Course of Events
Key differences
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 6:47pm.Speaking for myself, I must say that I am NOT anti war (though I don't think it's a good solution to initiate one). I'm anti-imperialist.
The problem with most Americans is that they barely recognize that the war against them - the war against public participation, democracy, the right to know, the right to dissent and discuss, the right to practice nonchristian religions, the war against the poor, is being waged almost one sided. Instead, the state religion instills in us a fear of those defined as non-native, in a continent which is 100% invader-occupied (including the original push of humans into the Americas 20,000 years ago, we are all imports, and geologically recent ones at that.)
The issues are framed in your response as 'war vs. no war,' rather than recognizing that we're targeted, as a body politic, for elimination from rights to property, voting, public space, and life itself. All while being sold the food which drops from the trees and springs from the fields under our own hands. Soon to be sold the water we drink, and the air we breathe. This system of property and the fact that the interests of collectives of humans (called "Corporations") are becoming more important (or more equal) than the rights of individuals or Unions of workers in this country, should be the problem we're trying to solve BEFORE we solve war as an institution. Otherwise we won't be working on a consensus basis at all.
You indeed do not have to like this or that slogan. You can indeed protest the use of our Port for the militarization of the fertle crescent. But you cannot long ignore that you, too, are under fire from the masters of war, and that it's up to you to defend your right to live.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
Sorry, your post doesn't
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 12:24am.But sign holding doesn't
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 1:41pm.It'd be different if we were somehow trying to hijack the country. But it's the exact opposite. The country has been hijacked by the pro-war contingency. And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sing "Kumbaya" when all this country's resources are used to kill innocent people on a third of the peoples' say-so. The way the war has been forced upon us is outrageous, and it needs to be treated as outrageous.
http://wallycuddeford.livejournal.com
http://wallynotorious.livejournal.com
Wally, I'd rather someone
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 1:54pm.Steps toward a critical slope
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 6:29pm.If this had happened all over the country, and continues to happen here, the administration's policy would become irrelevant. Our "fingers" would no longer be responding to their "brains." It's called withdrawing consent, and a big reason the VietNam war ended was because soldiers and citizens here withdrew their consent. And the NVA won eventually, even though they lost most of the battles and more than 16 people for every killed US Soldier. But we helped by making the policy untenable at home, too.
And yes, we will have to keep getting more people out on the street to oppose things like this. And get arrested. And repeat that process again (hopefully adding other tactics and learning from mistakes). But you've not convinced me that it was a mistake to oppose the Strykers directly.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
I'm not contesting that you
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 6:53pm.I'm not contesting that you don't think it's a mistake, hell you were one of the chumps arrested at the port, why would I care? I'm contesting this statement by wally:
"And if you're one of the apolitical bystanders, I'd say you're more likely to respond positively to a show of strength from people with firm moral grounding..."
I'm one of those bystanders, those are the opinions I speak of. You and the other arrestee's are not the people that need to be convinced of your goal, it's we bystanders. Pat yourself on the back all you want, most of us aren't going to and you may need the affection
The Canaanite's Call
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 12:15pm.The Canaanite's Call
Que?
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 4:20pm.permits?
Submitted by contron on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 12:25pm.i agree that it is very okay to be angry! i am angry. i think that we are focusing too much on the blog anger possibly turning into anger on the streets. it's a blog. yes maybe there will be some door blocking but it doesn't mean that everyone's gonna pick up a baseball bat and smash the jerky businesses (michael nutter jewelry? altered states tattoo?) it's a blog! and it's okay to be angry and we are dealing with the fact that many of us will be breaking the law for LIVING ie. congregating downtown because that is what downtown is for, doing homeless outreach on our bikes with carts, seeking shelter before 10pm, sitting down to rest because standing for long periods of time is tiring. permits, friendly amendments? i don't need permission to live in my town! and yes i wouldn't mind if either of those businesses failed. let's come up with a boycott list sometime. anyway...
Okay to be angry
Submitted by Sarah on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 4:47pm.I think contron is making an excellent point here. In our discussion and disagreement about tactics, are we also engaged in trying to control what emotions we all feel? Are some emotions good to us and some bad?
I truly think there is room for all sorts of strategies and tactics. We each are responsible for making our choices. Instead of using my energy for trying to control other people, I would much rather focus on what I can do, where I can use my voice, on what my choices are.
Thank you. :D
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 10:22am.I'm a little surprised at the response this and other similar declarations of struggle over this matter have gathered. I wasn't calling for riots or anything like that, just a forward-thinking attitude. All I really focused on was having our "eyes on the prize," focusing on achieving our aims, and not bothering will stuff that clearly would be a waste of time. I'm always shocked to hear people respond to that by saying, "Woah, woah! Let's stick with the letter writing campaign a little longer!"
Wake up Wally.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 12:52pm.Have you ever been to the Salvation Army, Wally? Ever seen the way they talk to people, the way they treat their residents?
Have you ever been told off by a caseworker at DSHS?
Have you ever been verbally assaulted by a pedestrian, told to "get a job", while you panhandled cause DSHS will only give you $339 a month for your disability? Have you ever had to work full time at proving that you are disabled?
Have you ever had the only public mental health agency in town turn you down for ALL their services because you didn't like a particular medication they were giving you?
Have you ever been refused services by one of the local merchants because of your appearances?
The fact is, Wally, that our little community is FULL of anti-homeless practices. If you want to "tear it down", you're gonna have to go after half the businesses downtown, 80% of the social service providers, the city council, the neighboring city councils, the chamber of commerce, and probably the majority of the people living in your neighborhood. Good luck.
I'll tell you that working with the street community is an isolating experience. It feels like the whole world is against us. I hang out on this blog and go to the bar, where poverty is often discussed like Iraq is discussed: as a political issue rather than a personal reality. I go to church where few are poor and where no doubt there would be great discomfort if the poor started attending. I go downtown where so many of the pedestrians have so little to do with their time other than to spend money and hurl insults at the homeless; where so many business owners would rather tell the homeless to "move along" than to say "hi"; and where the police abuse the law to make the merchants happy.
People like you come and go, Wally. You'll raise a ruckus over a largely symbolic ordinance. You'll get a lot of people pissed off at the homeless community and the homeless advocates. And, after making things even worse than they are now, you'll either leave town or you'll lose interest and find some other kind of trouble to get into. The rest of us will be left to clean up after you.
Social movements are not built in minutes, Wally, nor are they built in days, but rather are built in years and decades and lifetimes. There is so much to be done that if you really take in the scope of it you'll get dizzy. Please try to plan for the long haul, rather than for the piddly circumstances sitting directly under your nose.
One last thing: it is my understanding that there is a referendum process in Olympia. I'm not certain about this, but if my memory serves me accurately, it is possible to push this ordinance to ballot before it goes into effect. If this is the case, then it would provide a far more constructive, far less divisive means to get the ordinance overturned. Be careful, though. Voters' democracy and civil rights are not always complementary, and we wouldn't want to hand the council the justification for new and even more draconian laws.
The Canaanite's Call
Phil,
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 1:25pm.Please tell me more about this..
Anyone?
In process.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 4:54pm.The Canaanite's Call
PPU
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:13pm."Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts
I am well aware that this
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 4:19pm.I like the ballot initiative possibility. I'm not against working through the system. I just believe in using my time effectively, and I have worked on long term organizing any time I consider it effective, but I generally see the long term, "This'll take a few decades" approach as conciliatory. It's placating to people who should be stood up to. When somebody thinks that some people are less human than others, and acts in accordance with that belief, then that person should be stood up to, plain and simple.
(I know it's an abused analogy, but I'm going to use it anyway.) Naziism in Germany didn't take decades to rise to power. It took 8 or so years to reach the point where nations were being invaded, and people were being gassed. The only way to stop that before it started wouldn't have been to think about the long term, or to try to appeal to the people who would blindly throw their countrypeople into the camps. The only way, short of an actual violent militancy, would have been for the affected people and those who care about them to make it clear at the first available opportunity that they will not go quietly into that night.
I know you've been at homeless advocacy for a looong time. I don't pretend to have any connection to the homeless (other than myself) at all on par with yours. But I stand by my principles. I stand by the idea of fighting back.
Thanks Wally.Here's how
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:02pm.Here's how things are different now than before, and how it can be communicated that no-one will "go quietly into that night." The Poor People's Union is being built. We didn't have that before, and I'll say that, after many years of difficult struggle at B&R, I am absolutely astonished at how quickly and powerfully the PPU is forming. The PPU will provide a strong grassroots, constituent based structure for organizing and for conducting well planned, well coordinated campaigns.
Sometimes "standing up" to injustice without proper planning and communication can harm the cause for justice in a broader sense. It is really important that no-one runs off and jumps into tactics that could have the effect of undermining the PPU in coming months. That's all I'm saying. Think of the broader consequences.
The Canaanite's Call
This part
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:33pm."Sometimes 'standing up' to injustice without proper planning and communication can harm the cause for justice in a broader sense."
is what I worry about. I would hate to see people in the community, who you could gather to your cause, have a negative taste put into their mouth by a select few people wanting to butt-heads with their enemy. I really think a lot of negative fallout could happen and it would make certain people in the community VERY happy.
How does one get involved
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:47pm.I may not be able to commit to a consistant attendance due to health issues with my better half on the domestic front. She's going through chemo and needs to avoid crowds during flu season.
You say that a good cause will even sanctify war! I tell you, it is the good war that sanctifies every cause!
Friedrich Nietzsche
There's a meeting this
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:54pm.The Canaanite's Call
I think we may be on the
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:59pm.I think the PPU is fantastic! I support whatever they choose to do, and if it's something I want to work on, I will offer my volunteer time.
But I am concerned when you talk about "well coordinated campaigns." In my experience, that usually refers to elevating one group to the level of vanguard for the movement. I've seen time and time again, When a group becomes the vanguard of a movement, the movement stagnates. And a campaign that relies on being able to control the elements of what would be a mass popular movement is not likely to succeed. In other words, PPU shouldn't get offended if other groups want to take up the cause. I want to see PPU, OMJP, and SDS all work, both independently and with dialogue about each others' campaigns. That's what a movement is.
Also, Drew read your reply. He tells me you may think I'm a "come and go" Evergreener (which I am not). I'm actually a lifelong resident here. I'm not going anywhere. ;)
Listen to Phil
Submitted by OlyCop on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:02pm.Listen to Phil and Rob. These guys are in the trenches, helping the homeless daily. They likely know best how to attack the homeless issue and spin off issues on that topic, like the ordinance. Follow their leadership, they need your HELP, ask them for direction, they truly know best. Strategize with them, feed ideas to them, but follow them.
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." Leo Tolstoy.
Thank You, OlyCop
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 5:18pm.Hmmm...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:00pm.Please call the shift sergeant and inform him that the situation tonight is quite delicate, and that the appearance of riot cops / hard armor in downtown Olympia is NOT advisable. I've been in police riot situations before, where the original complaint became MUCH worse and was escalated by police presence (not just police actions). Most of those expectations have been quickly avoided by OPD - your department actually has a good track record of de-escalating group confrontations. Except March 2003. But mostly, I have admired the OPD response to such things.
Rob and Phil are NOT LEADERS. They're people who work for the indigent, not people who "lead" them. They take their direction FROM their clients, not the other way around. Their fears here are their fears - and mine - and not that of their clients, some of whom (a tiny minority of whom) might want to disrupt this opening night. It's not appropriate, though certainly understandable, for you to attibute that position to them. Our typical organizing model is NOT top-down. Yours is. Keep in mind they're two very separate cultures.
As a copwatcher I must document what happens, and that limits my participation significantly - but I will be open and up front that I do not want to see a blockade of the playhouse tonight. I don't think that's the proper tactic.
But we have not had the emergency in-person meeting which would need to happen to discuss this first, so we can't make that decision here. Others (who called for this direct action) have had that discussion, and come to their decisions. We should not assume they will read this or hear of it at this late hour. We should be prepared to stand on the sidewalk and allow "two persons to pass abreast" at all times - and have, if anything, a moving picket line in front of the playhouse. If we really do not want action "X" to happen, we might want to consider occupying that space and making it impossible first. If that occupation is done by the cops, there will be more confrontation than if we do it with conversation as civilians.
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
I think Drew has gotten to
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:51pm."Everybody who imitates Christ is a fake Jesus." –Alan Watts
It sounds like you are
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 7:05pm.The cops tell us who to listen to?
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:24pm.So if it were Rick or I it
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:30pm.So if it were Rick or I it would be ok, but if a cop says it, you must revolt? Lord how the lines are drawn in this world.
OlyDowntowner..
Submitted by bubbaz (not verified) on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:43pm.Olycop is an Olyblogger..
We are here to learn from each other..
Amen, brother.
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 6:58pm.When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
Olycop
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 10:36am.He's a cop. That didn't change just because he's logged onto Olyblog. We didn't all come here to pretend we all have the same goal and to put our heads together and figure out how to achieve it. We're just as disparate here as we are in real life.
I do believe people deserve basic human understanding and civility in online discourse (amusing trollery withstanding), and I do believe you have everything to learn from even the unlikeliest of sources. But Olycop telling me something here is exactly the same as a real-life uniformed criminal telling me something out on the streets. I'll be especially skeptical every time.
But
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 11:26am.It's just strange you'd be skeptical simply because of the profession. And it's not even like you're saying it's all government employees you're skeptical of; you're simply skeptical because of the role they play in government (as if DSHS is telling the truth).
I look at things this way: if it's an institution telling me something (e.g. Company/Government Agency X said today...), I'm skeptical. If it's an individual? I give the of benefit of the doubt almost every time.
Part of a police officer's
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 1:15pm.But that wasn't even my point. I have nothing against Olycop personally, here or in real life. I was just countering bubbaz's thing of "People all join Olyblog to learn from each other and to grow." No more than people interact with each other in real life just to learn and to grow.
http://wallycuddeford.livejournal.com
http://wallynotorious.livejournal.com
Just admit it wally, you're
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 1:25pm.Maybe you'll end up with 3
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 7:09pm.Maybe you'll end up with 3 hots and a cot, just maybe.
....
Submitted by slogvomit on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 9:54pm.....
not to glorify, but.....your
Submitted by slogvomit on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 9:54pm.not to glorify, Phil, but.....
your aforementioned diatribe is dead-on.
Drew
Submitted by OlyCop on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 7:05pm.When I was talking about Rob and Phil being leaders, I wasn't talking about them leading the homeless, although they likely do provide guidance to them which is leadership. I was talking about leading those of you that want to help the homeless. I really believe Phil and Rob both are best able to decide what kind of action to use to get the best results for those that need it. Like Phil mentioned, action that is done in the spirit of helping but doesn't, isn't good for anyone including the homeless.
I doubt you will see any of the things you mention Drew. Not unless it is precipitated by the crowd.
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." Leo Tolstoy.
Thanks Olycop.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:43pm.Things went well this evening. The folks who were talking about blocking doors etc agreed to forego those actions. A lot of people showed up, we had a good long discussion, and then spread out across town to hand out flyers. The bulk of the crowd will be coming to saturday's PPU meeting.
I do want to address one of Wally's comments above. I agree that it is a bad idea to create a "vanguard" (that word gives me Leninist shivers... anyone read What Is To Be Done?) to lead the "revolution". But on this particular issue, everyone's actions will be felt most by the homeless community. While I do think it important for OMJP, SDS, and others to take front line, leading roles, ALL TACTICS really should have the consent of the PPU as the organized voice of the homeless. Not a vanguard, just people who could bear the brunt of bad decisions.
The Canaanite's Call
Agreed
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 10:46am.In my experience working with families of war resisters, they usually tell people: "Don't do this and don't do that, but anything else (that's reasonable) is fair game." I think that works best for movement building, when one group speaks for the oppressed.
They definitely have buckets
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 11:02am.I think ideas should generally be argued on their face. It's fair to rely on specific experience, like for Phil to say "We tried this action here in Oly three years ago, and this was the effect." But each of us, once in a while, fails to rely on such a concrete example and begins backing a strategy just because it feels like the best course of action. We may even go so far as to frame our general experiences as if they validate it, without having anything concrete in our experience to actually tell us that's the way to go. And doing whatever Phil and Rob think without due discussion (in which they would have to be equals) would just be indulging such ungrounded feelings.
"They definitely have buckets"
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 11:12am.Thanks bubbaz
Submitted by OlyCop on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 7:10pm."Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." Leo Tolstoy.
Tolstoy Sig Quote
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 7:25pm.Indeed!The Canaanite's Call
Submitted by Phil Owen on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:32pm.The Canaanite's Call
Verity, However, Doubtful
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 11/30/2006 - 9:38pm.I do like the quote, and I think it serves a good purpose however. It doesn't need to apply objectively or universally to be useful.
Actually...
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 12/01/2006 - 11:01pm.Best example I can think of is the change in the consciousness of the black men and women of the USA - who no longer say "negro" about themselves except in irony or history. That came out of the Nation of Islam, the Black Panthers, and the Civil Rights struggles - and not from someone's navel gazing efforts.
Besides, being a police officer is the ultimate in fighting the world on your own terms rather than changing your own expectations and assumptions about others. Irony abounds in the use of that sig line, John...
"The greatest hoax played on the masses is that their individual voice is nothing amidst the cacophany of world events." - enpen, an Olyblogger (2006)
:D
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Sat, 12/02/2006 - 10:49am.zzzzzzzzzzzzZING!!!
Drew frequently rants like
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 12:25am.From the Olympian
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 5:04pm.http://www.theolympian.com/101/story/53818.html
Sign Holding etc.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 5:08pm.Another part of what I do when I am sign-holding is establishing rapport with the larger community. Come on down sometime Wally, make eye-contact with the people who are driving by, canvas them. You might be surprised by how people respond. Opposition to the war, in this community is widespread, the vast majority of people support my sign-holding peace vigil activity.
In the Course of Events
I do come out to
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Wed, 12/06/2006 - 12:15am.What I'm really against is how sign-holding gets treated like it's the solution to any problem. It's not. It's a supplement, at best. Direct action, in whatever form it takes, is the solution. Sign-holding is basically asking the community to join you in working to stop the war (or at least asking them to speak positively of your efforts at their next Thanksgiving dinner with the family). If sign-holding was all we did, then our entire campaign would be circular.
I don't know if I'm saying anything well tonight. I'm kinda sleepy.
http://wallycuddeford.livejournal.com
http://wallynotorious.livejournal.com
This song has been bouncing
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/03/2006 - 5:29pm.This song has been bouncing around in my head and I finally figured out who sings it ( can't believe I didn't know it right off the bat) I think it fits into quite a few of our current conversations....pay no attention to the mullet, thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR31nC0U9FA
Rapport and Consensus
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 12/04/2006 - 11:29pm.Does that make sense?
In the Course of Events
Discussion about "Tear it Down" Mentality
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Tue, 12/05/2006 - 8:41pm.In the Course of Events
Sorry, I couldn't get to a
Submitted by WallyCuddeford on Wed, 12/06/2006 - 12:06am.You said it's important to show them our human side. I agree, but I think one of the "human sides" that's not getting its due is the basic human characteristic of getting really angry about things that should make one really angry. And being universally blamed for all the ills of downtown (even those that seem to have been completely fabricated) pisses me off. The fact that this kind of villification of the homeless goes on over and over just pisses me off all that much more.
We're always told we should respond by loving our oppressor, and understanding their situation. Well, No, I won't love my oppressor. I'll tell him why I'm doing what I'm doing, but I'm not going to wait until I have his permission to start being treated with respect. I'll talk at length with people who don't know the facts and who want to know. And I respect people who know the facts and want what's best for everyone, but come to different conclusions than I do. But I have no connection with the people who aren't listening, or worse, the people who know full well but say, "I've got mine - Eff everyone else." Most of the ills I see in society come directly from people of those two mindsets. The only way to make those folks listen is to say "Enough is enough! If grinding this machine to a halt is the only way you're going to respect me, then I'll grind it to a halt."
I think that's the mentality you're referring to.
http://wallycuddeford.livejournal.com
http://wallynotorious.livejournal.com