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Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 08/06/2008 - 1:35pm.

Washington Times: "Border patrol agent held at gunpoint" (06 AUG 2008):

A U.S. Border Patrol agent was held at gunpoint Sunday night by members of the Mexican military who had crossed the border into Arizona, but the soldiers returned to Mexico without incident when backup agents responded to assist.

It was unclear what the soldiers were doing in the United States, but U.S. law enforcement authorities have long said that current and former Mexican military personnel have been hired to protect drug and migrant smugglers.

Um - and all we do is send unarmed National Guard members to the U.S. - Mexico border?

According to The Army Times ("Deployment Shuffle", 28 JUL 2008), there are currently 18,000 Army personnel in South Korea and 45,000 in Europe. You could easily shift the vast majority of the soldiers - all from the Korean peninsula and a large chunk from Europe - to the U.S. - Mexico border without negatively affecting the mission these soldiers would be leaving.

I can promise you that putting every soldier in South Korea on the U.S. - Mexico border would be infinitely more useful - and justifiable - than having troops in a country for 55 years.

Since 1996, there have been more than 200 confirmed incursions by the Mexican military into the United States.

This is crazy! We can't even get a handle on our own border and we wonder why we do a poor job at nation-building.

There's literally a war - some of the incidents have involved .50 caliber rifles being shot at Border Patrol and local sheriff vehicles - and the federal government just buries its head in the sand because it's too afraid to up the ante.

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Interesting post...

...can you tie it in with something local, though?
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local content

I am curious about the local relevance here also. Something, anything. There has to be some local relevance.

I don't think Olympia is an international port of entry. I am sure there are some people who reside in Olympia who have been harassed by border patrol agents. But I don't think that's the interpretation that we're looking for here.




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Well,

that's why it doesn't belong on the front page. I'm happy with that arrangement. Otherwise people seem to get challenged about local content by others who don't like their post. Not happy about that arrangement (or so it appears).
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According to...

The Federation for Immigration Reform (FAIR), there were "200,000 to 250,000 illegal aliens living in Washington."

FAIR estimates in 2004 that the taxpayers of Washington spent $549.4 million per year on illegal aliens and their children in public schools.

It's important to have a strong border and a sensible, functioning immigration system. Currently, we have neither.

Not only is this situation detrimental to the taxpaying public, but dangerous for those who have to rely on "underground" means to enter the United States and take whatever working condition is available.

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What have been the costs of this "war?"

Seems there is a line somewhere that tells us it's worth escalating rather than continuing to work through diplomatic channels. I'm not convinced the events merrit that kind of escalation.
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Border Patrol?

Lost cause. We could shuffle the troops, put up an electricution fence, bomb the drug producers in Mexico, and otherwise treat the Mexicans like dogs...OR...we could create FAIR TRADE between Mexico and The US, and I'm not talking about NAFTA. It is NOT in the US's best interest to have an impoverished nation on our border. That is why NAFTA was originally created, but for some reason, while fair trade was the original intentions the end result was worse trade that benefitted the US much more than Mexico. We don't even allow Mexico to sell products in the US unless they charge too much for the products so that their products do not put US producers out of business. Freedom is the right to grow. Yet we stifle Mexico with unfair trade regulations and then blame them for illegal border crossings. Something has to change, but Mexico doesn't exactly have a vote that is worth anything to the UN.
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Not sure who your talking to

"We could shuffle the troops, put up an electricution fence, bomb the drug producers in Mexico, and otherwise treat the Mexicans like dogs"

While there are a few heartless, cynics out there who might like that idea, it's, thankfully, not a realistic option. I bet we can leave that one off the table from now on.

As for unfair trade practices, can you cite some examples of how the US doesn't allow Mexico to sell in the US?  From what I hear, trade is a problem in Mexico because it is driving up food prices.  Farmers are more profitable if they sell to US markets.  That may or may not be good for Mexico, but it sure doesn't look like we're restricting their access to our consumer markets. 

What Mexico needs are fewer crooks in government, better labor laws and salaries, stronger unions, and labor mobility.  If capital can cross boarders, why not people?  

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US-Mexico Unfair Trade Examples:

Poor Mexican corn farmers now have to compete in their own country with highly subsidized American corn. The US imposes many, many agricultural subsidies for its own farmers but does not allow Mexico to countervail by imposing duties on US imports to offset US subsidies. When Mexico tomato exports to the US began to increase in 1996, Florida tomato growers pressured Congress and the Clinton administration to do something about it. The US accused Mexico of "dumping" (selling products below cost) and threatened lawsuits. Mexico didn't want to risk a trial so they agreed to raise its price on tomatoes so that Flordia could compete with Mexico which resulted in less tomatoes being sold from Mexico at the expense of both Mexican farmers and US consumers. The result is that Mexicans would rather illegally cross the border into the US and work for the "federally mandated farmworker wage" at about $5.00 per hour (if that) (state min wages don't apply to farm workers in the US - another unfair subsidy for farmers) than work for their own country which cannot afford subsidies. You can't get rid of crime, boost salaries, and so forth without infrastructure. However, without infrastructure, technology, roads, and other freedoms that define a fair economy you MIGHT need a union....Unions take money OUT of the economy by forcing people to pay for services that they could easily achieve in a court of law- even without a lawyer- or you could hire a union instead- and- yeah- unions have made achievements for US workers- but independents could have achieved those same benefits in a court of law too- and without forcing future workers to pay for that service either- because that is bs to force future workers to pay for historical freedoms that were granted on the basis of justice. Martin Luther King isn't charging Blacks for their freedoms so why in the world should unions be charging workers for "getting a break"????? I'm claiming BS on that one.
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and- yeah- unions have made

and- yeah- unions have made achievements for US workers- but independents could have achieved those same benefits in a court of law too- and without forcing future workers to pay for that service either-

Please do your homework. People don't die for the fun of it, or because they're too stupid to figure out how to use a "court of law".

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I am not sure what you are

I am not sure what you are talking about. What have unions done that were not achievable by any qualified lawyer or human rights activist? I know that people died and that change did not occur until unions stepped-in, and that is good. But where would be today without unions? Still slaving in coal mines for fifty cents a day as workers die on the job throughout the twelve hour workday? Why doesn't every first world country have unions if positive working environments are "not achievable" without unions? I am not saying that I am anti-union or pro-union. I could never do all the homework that would be required to know the answer there. I am just trying to start a real conversation without the usual "....don't be naive....don't you know the story.....don't you know your history..." typical responses that tell me nothing about the actual efficacy of unions today. Alaska Airlines' union recently ruled that outsourcing of ramp work was in violation of union contracts. Why does it take a union contract to protect jobs? I believe that workers have the ability to market themselves on the free market in effective ways without a union. The problem doesn't seem to be the unions but rather the rights of businesses to outsource labor. Why is the US workforce unable to cope with outsourcing? What if we strengthened US workforce to the point where outsourcing was not sought after or didn't matter. Is that a completely outlandish idea? Are there investments that Alaska Airline ramp workers could make to protect themselves from outsourcing without a union? Do unions really just enable poor investment tactics of laborers to continue despite an economy that is investing heavily in new technology and phasing out labor jobs?
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Also

What Mexico needs is better education, political stability, roads, internet, phones, investment in technology, and fewer NAFTA situations like this: When a village in the north-central Mexican state of San Luis Potosi tried to force Metaclad, a US waste disposal company, to close a toxic waste site that was contaminating the local water supply, the Mexican government was forced to pay $16.7 million in compensation, under Chapter 11 of NAFTA which was an anti-environmentalist provision that mandated compensation for "loss trade" that resulted from closing the Metaclad facility in Mexico.
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It's U.S.-Mexico

not Mexican border. Please don't make me open up a can of 8th grade grammar on yer ass.
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You skipped...

Keith Hufnagel's contribution.

But I did make the necessary correction. Now please, surf the entire site and be sure to do the same to everyone else.

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well, money at home...

...versus money overseas, and I'd rather have Americans living in America (instead of having to work oversea)-

-America needs tax-payers, and personally I don't have anything against anybody that wants to live in the US and work.

 

chad360

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