"Bring them home & keep them home!"

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"Bring them home & keep them home!"

Submitted by Sarah on Sun, 11/04/2007 - 6:37pm.

Start: Nov 6 2007 - 4:00pm

End: Nov 6 2007 - 6:00pm

Families and friends in Olympia say:

"End the Occupation of Iraq NOW!"

"Bring them home & keep them home!"

Tuesday, Nov. 6th - 4pm Percival Landing

Gather to march in our Streets, our Port, our Home.

Military Ships Return to Olympia - On November 5th military ships begin off-loading equipment returning from Iraq at the Port of Olympia. Our demonstrations are intended to show growing opposition to the war and the use of the Port of Olympia to ship military equipment to the Middle East in support of US occupation.

The Stryker Brigade whose equipment is returning lost 48 soldiers during their deployment. The brigade was the same as that whose equipment was shipped out in May of 2006 from the Port of Olympia prior to their deployment. We intend to keep our soldiers home and end the loss of innocent Iraqi lives facilitated by the militarization of our ports.

Calendar

Seriously?

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 11/04/2007 - 7:01pm.

I'm not shooting the messenger here or anything. I understand getting the word out.

I just have to question gathering to "to march in our Streets" of downtown Olympia during prime rush hour to "Bring them home & keep them home"?

Personally, I think doing that will only anger those who don't support that effort. I would be more receptive to the message if I wasn't forced to be stuck in traffic or having to take an alternate route home to my family while trying to get home from work or from supporting our downtown core financially.

Does this organization really think protesting by shutting down traffic will cause Bush to pick up the phone and say "bring them home & keep them home"?

What purpose will marching in the streets of downtown Olympia really accomplish?

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Great questions

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 11/04/2007 - 7:22pm.

I think the organizers of these events need to seriously ask themselves these very questions.

I won't hold my breath. The

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 11/04/2007 - 7:53pm.

I won't hold my breath.

The Canaanite's Call

As discussed earlier

Submitted by david_olympia on Sun, 11/04/2007 - 8:03pm.

Rob,

This is what I was saying earlier. If these organizers think that blocking roadways and causing chaos is going to gather support for their cause, they’re really naive.

When things like the vandalism, shown on olyblog and other acts like shutting down traffic occur, it makes the average citizen disgusted and does not persuade anyone. Just the opposite.

It reminds me of my old days when I thought crazy attention is going to persuade people to believe like me. Then I grew up and realized I need to have a rational argument if I was going to convince people otherwise.

As said earlier think. Sometimes I feel people forgot how.

Privilege

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:16pm.

Do you mean we need to ONLY use our voices, our arguments, and never our direct resistance? Is that your idea of how we became a Nation free from King George? Is that how actual history gets made? Is that how black people earned the civil rights they formally gained in the 1870's? Or did it take the 1950's civil disobedience to achieve those rights?

Civil rights are not self-enforcing, and no one has civil rights who does not have a community organized to defend those rights.

By the way, do you apply this same "You gotta come with the rationality" requirement to the current George and his war on Iraq?

I agree with your message Drew,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:26pm.

but I would argue with you about the historical references you made, and the cause of "rights" being given to us. I don't want to hijack this thread with theoretical discussions, but I will say that capitalism had more to do with the freeing of slaves here or serfs in Europe during that time period than any other force. Maybe a new thread should be started, or maybe just forget it. Either way, I accept your apology as well as your concession.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

I don't know how anyone can take you seriously

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:49pm.

It's not that you are a joker, but I can't honestly believe what you are saying. Do you think we should take up arms against our government Drew, just like the revolution? Do you HONESTLY think anyone would follow your small flock into battle? I'm not %100 happy with my government at the moment, but I'm not so irrational to think that I can change it given your course. You seem a long way off, maybe you should focus more on your goals than on this blog, I think you've swayed all the people here that you are going to sway.

Thanks for posting this Sarah

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 11/04/2007 - 9:04pm.

It's a lovely reminder to avoid downtown tomorrow ;)

Purpose of Rally and March

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:16am.

The purpose of a rally and march is to express dissent toward the unjustified and unnecessary, illegal and immoral military occupation of Iraq.

Congress is in dereliction of its duty to hold the Bush Administration accountable and there is abundant evidence to have reasonably suspect the Bush Administration of committing serious crimes against the constitution, crimes against the people of the USA and Iraq, crimes against humanity.

Opposing the use of the Port of Olympia to support, and enable, an illegal military action is honorable civic duty. It could even be considered to be patriotic!

Yeah, we get that.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:14pm.

You're still not answering the questions being asked. And remember, I'm on your side.

You've been repeating those basic points so much that even I, who basically agree, am tired of hearing them. I'm also of the opinion that the tactics used by the peace movement aren't working. The peace movement is doing the job of it's opponents by continually alienating people who might be allies, if other, more "productive", methods were used. This government is not going to waver, we don't live in the 60's anymore. Yesterday's tactics don't work today, the state is ready for them. They've had years to learn how to counteract them. The media isn't helping the cause, they make the peace movement look like crazy radicals and so that's what half of America believes.

We've got to come up with tactics fit for today's environment, protesting in the streets just isn't cutting it. Direct action is the key, but we have to redefine direct action. We have to have a multi-pronged approach that is inclusive of anyone no matter their unique level of commitment.

We have to go back to the drawing board, but first we have to let everyone know that they're welcome there also.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Wow

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:50pm.

I was going to just pull a quote or two, but I don't want to break up your post. Sometimes you are absolutely brilliant. I'm not being sarcastic either.

Exactly

Submitted by Sandy M on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 12:42am.

God forbid that anyone should be inconvenienced.

Does that statement include

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 8:35am.

Does that statement include protesters who are inconvenienced by court dates, fines, or time in the poky?

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

Not if they are

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 8:41am.

just protesting.

Well of course not, and I'm

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 9:13am.

Well of course not, and I'm not calling for the police or anything like that. Whether I agree with a side or not, as long as a demonstration stays legal what do I care?

We all know that many times when the police swoop into a crowd the people nabbed aren't the ones who did an alleged action (like how the majority of the port protesters on trial last year weren't even near the gate in question). So my question was if commuters (who aren't soldiers in Iraq) shouldn't be upset at being inconvenienced over something they had nothing to do with, then should the same apply to any protesters who might be inconvenienced? Because the comment and attitude I'm responding to says (sarcastically) God Forbid anyone should be inconvenienced.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

I'd say the protestors have

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 9:29am.

already been "inconvenienced" by an immoral war.

G-Man, you know I like you.

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 9:35am.

G-Man, you know I like you. And if you don't know it, well now you do.

But come on, you're really inconveniencing me right now. Now please excuse me while I go off muttering something about nuts.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

Sorry,

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 9:43am.

I was suddenly under the mind control of Rob Whitlock for a second.

I'll fire up the grill and get some corn on the cob going.

Only if it's convenient for

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 9:46am.

Only if it's convenient for you.

If Norm, Larry and I are the stooges, are you Groucho?

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

I Thought You Three Were

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 9:49am.

Larry, Darryl & Darryl! ;-)

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Right

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 10:19am.

Just an inconvenience. I'm sure inconveniencing people is the BEST way to turn them on to your way of thinking. All those annoyed drivers are going to look up and say, "Gee, it's so great that these folks are down here, this changes my mind about the whole thing!". All of those mad drivers that were on the fence will really be impressed with the local movement once you block traffic.....right.

Again, I'm glad this was posted so I can avoid downtown. I'd hate to be convinced of something by this "patriotic" display.

Sarah

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 10:36am.

you made The Olympian LTE thread

ooops....I'm not supposed to read that

They're planning to block

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:04am.

They're planning to block the streets during the time period that Tammy needs to be riding the bus to her Radiation. Course, if her cancer comes back it's just an inconvenience, right? So many Iraqis never get the opportunity to have chemo so why should she?

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

I endorse blocking the streets and inconveniencing people

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:16am.

Silent, convenient objection hasn't gotten the anti-war movement anywhere. And while it's unfortunate that people will be inconvenienced, it is possible for them to make alternate arrangements. No one is targeting civilian cancer patients, but civilians are being killed intentionally by soldiers WE PAY every day in Iraq. Enough!

ROFL

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:22am.

Silent, convenient objection hasn't gotten the anti-war movement anywhere.

and loud inconvenient object has gotten folks somewhere? What the hell are you smoking? This event will not convince people of anything, besides the fact that the anti-war movement (locally) feel frustrated because they can't accomplish a damn thing. Years from now that's what the local group will be remembed for...being arrested at the port, and blocking traffic. WAY TO GO TEAM!!!

This has already been asked,

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:28am.

This has already been asked, but do you think the people stuck in traffic are going to roll their windows down, have a dialogue with the blockers, make their minds up, and see to it that the war is stopped pronto?

Now, I'm not so paranoid as to think that Tammy's life is in jeopardy today, that's more hyperbolic than anything, but your callous response sure helped me decide that you guys are doing the right thing.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

I'm not callous, actually

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 2:03pm.

I'm not callous to Tammy's plight at all, but I recognize that she can work around a demonstration. That's not callous, Merwyn. I'm not willing to accept the policies of an administration that is killing, injuring and displacing millions of people for immoral reasons just because a demonstration will inconvenience people. It's not a matter of life or death for people stuck in traffic -- the same cannot be said for the Iraqi people. I can't understand why people are so callous when it comes to the killing done in their name. All the things you fear for Tammy are happening right now to someone else, someone far away but the pain is real, and it's being done intentionally in the name of your country. I don't understand how people can let that happen without kicking up a fuss, or even seeing that a fuss is appropriate.

And Norm, I don't care if you laugh at me. I laugh at you frequently.

Alright Sinead

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 2:33pm.

I'm going to dress in black and never laugh again. Not until all six billion Earthlings are holding hands and doing somersaults in the daisy field.

I don't like what's happening in Iraq "in my name." I also don't like what's planned for tomorrow "in my name." Since I live in Olympia, not Fallujah, I'll focus my thoughts and energies on what's local.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

I'm glad

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 3:54pm.

because I guarantee that my laughter, and yours, does a hell of a lot more than all of Olympia's protesting. The day when the war ends, and it's conceded because of protestors, I will believe in you guys, until then I feel you all are pretty useless.

In That Case

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:36am.

let's shut down the streets and inconvenience people every time a PAID babysitter kills a child or a PAID doctor makes a mistake costing a patience life or a PAID teacher abuses a child or a PAID clergy molests a child or a PAID police officer kills someone defending his life.

That'll make a huge difference to, and stop someone, just because they're paid and it will really send a strong message to those inconvenienced.

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Pretty bad analogies, ornery

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 2:10pm.

In any of those scenarios you described, a system for redress already exists. If paid babysitters were killing children and getting away with it, people might take to the streets. War crimes are occurring in Iraq right now, and nothing is being done to stop them.

Olydowntowner wrote: "No one

Submitted by NWarty on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:47am.

Olydowntowner wrote: "No one is targeting civilian cancer patients, but civilians are being killed intentionally by soldiers WE PAY every day in Iraq. Enough!"

Riiiigggghhhhhht. Thanks for the comic relief today OD.

Thanks NWarty

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 11:51am.

I didn't even feel like addressing that part, I'm glad someone did though.

That's funny to you?

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 2:06pm.

You're amused by the deaths of civilians? And they're calling me callous?

Not at all. I've had friends

Submitted by NWarty on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 2:26pm.

Not at all.

I've had friends killed, maimed, blown up and generally messed up in some way shape or form. Seen what collateral damage does to civilian kids. Hardly funny ha-ha stuff OD.

But that brush your painting soldiers with is awfully broad...

My broad brush

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 3:19pm.

I don't think I described its dimensions terribly precisely... perhaps you're making some assumptions. How, exactly, did I qualify soldiers committing war crimes other than to say that we pay them?

Again, How about: "civilians

Submitted by NWarty on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 3:26pm.

Again, How about: "civilians are being killed intentionally by soldiers WE PAY every day in Iraq."

Suggesting the US Military is directly targeting the citizens of Iraq as if Private Joe Blow's commander just told him to go shoot women and children on purpose and make sure to run over their dog also. You said INTENTIONALLY.

And yes, there have been very isolated cases where a few individuals in separate incidents have acted outside the rules of engagement and laws of warfare.

That's correct. There's a

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 3:29pm.

That's correct. There's a huge difference between the men and women in the Armed Forces, and the mercenaries of Blackwater.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

People Of The Lie

Submitted by olyrickm on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 1:43pm.

In his book People Of The Lie, M.Scott Peck (Road Less Travelled), makes the argument that the anti-war movement during Viet Nam did not gain a foot hold in mainstream consciousness until the draft was started. Prior to the draft the only folks to serve were volunteers, so the military was essentially a closed system. It was filled with like-minded people who saw military service as the pinnicle of patriotism and nationalism. He goes on to point out that it is in closed systems that evil shows up. The Mi Lai (sp?) massacre happened before the draft, just as Abu Graib has happened before a draft. The inconvenience of war has not effected the mainstream consciousness. The volunteer families in effect have signed up for the possibilities of dying in war or being maimed. If I ruled the world I would have every single male and female who can walk and talk be required to serve in the military for a certain period of time (minimum 2 years) so the nation as a whole could experience the inconvience of war and keep the miltary system open so as not to be consumed by the evil of a closed system. A closed system lacks a feedback loop, so the message consumed is always the same. The folks who want to protest are attempting in some way to open the system, perhaps a small version of the shock and awe imagery used by the current administration to illustrate their intentions.

Very good point, thank you

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 2:26pm.

Very good point, thank you for the perspective.

Let's stop this crazy military action...

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 5:32pm.

Let's come together over the need to protect our neighbors, our soldiers, ourselves, the people of Iraq, et al. from this offensive Bush Administration assault on humanity that is the occupation of Iraq.

I stand in solidarity with those who oppose the use of our municipal port for enabling an illegal military action in Iraq.

Close one door, open another

Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 11/05/2007 - 7:48pm.

I'm closing this thread down now, feel free to start another.

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