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Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 4:43pm.
There was yet another stabbing at the downtown bus station at around 5:15 or so. I saw the aftermath, a young man on a stretcher with a wound to his lower back. He looked okay concidering. That makes two assaults in a row. Of course, this is going to bring the "blame it on the bums, libs, and greeners" crowd out of the wood work for sure.
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You left out
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 4:57pm.The homosexuals. It's their fault too.
"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers
WTF is going on???
Submitted by Norm on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 5:24pm.I'm not singling you out, Norm
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 6:53am.This is precisely the kind of shoddy sensationalist bullshit that makes me ever more skeptical of the daily zero's information agenda in Olympia. Today's front page headline? "Second stabbing reported in two days." Yes, the article does go on to report that the situation is probably domestic in nature (a confession by the stabbing victim's son), but the knee jerk response to the headline for Olympians already convinced of downtown's danger is going to be exactly in line with Norm's response here. Lame, lame, lame. I have no problem with putting domestic violence issues on the front page, in fact, I think they deserve front page status so that we can address the issues that lead to it. But disguising domestic violence in headlines that make people think of downtown Olympia as a dangerous place is journalistically irresponsible and disquieting.
To top it all off? It's not until the South Sound section that the zero reports a rape by an unknown intruder.
Awwww
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:35am.I feel singled out :( I don't think most folks get a CPL for cities like Olympia.
I'm guessing the rape didn't get front page because it wasn't public enough. Let's face it, this is a SMALL town, they will latch onto whatever story they feel is going to sell to their readers. As far as seriousness, someone breaking into your home and raping you? THAT is scary. I'll take the stab wound please.
stories like the 2 mentioned above I have a problem with. If someone is smacking/hitting/pushing you, how does slashing their throat qualify as self-defense? I'd understand if you were possibly in a dark alley, all alone. This woman (the first stabber) was in public. I'm not sure what others were thinking but, had I been there and saw her pull a knife I would have second-guessed intervening. Nothing like having someone slash wildly while you try and break-up a fight.
Is it self-defense because it's a man vs woman thing? The second fight mentions them both having a knife, so I can see that being a defense argument, although I still have to wonder. Both stories seem wonkier than heck.
From what I gathered,
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:43am.Reply to Norm
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:44am.I'm going to go out on a limb here and guessing the rape was probably more date or acquaintence rape which doesn't merit SERIAL RAPIST concern.
As for the fights downtown, in the first fight it didn't state his throat had been slashed! She stabbed him in the throat!
As for the second fight, how is stabbing someone in the back self defense???
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
Going out on the same limb,
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:49am.If two people are scuffling, locked together and or rolling about, about the only area you could swing at would be the back and kidneys.
It's a fair call, but Society's to blame. ~ Right! We'll be charging them too!
Stabs to the back happen in
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:58am.Stabs to the back happen in tussles. Again it seems a little strange for a father and son to get in a knife fight in a street.
As for this guy "walking into" the womans knife? I'm not saying it didn't happen but that has to seem a little sketchy to you folks, right?
For those who don't know a knife generally equates to lethal force. You can easily die from a stab wound. This is a completely different level than a fistfight.
Something just seems really fishy about these two stories.
I do agree, however remember
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 9:00am.THAT is the weird part!
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 9:10am.Norm
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 9:12am.It does seem sketchy to me too! And why would somebody walk into a knife aimed at their throat? Maybe the abdomen if he really wanted to get revenge on her or something. But not the throat. Unless he just felt he wanted to die because he didn't have her anymore...???
WHO KNOWS! LOL! As with most news stories, we never know how they end! Heck, I had to read about that guy Jeff here in Oly (who developed a case of amnesia while on a trip home to Canada and was found in Denver over a month after he left) in this months Reader's Digest just to hear how his story ended!
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
I just read that story in
Submitted by OperaGirl on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 11:31am.And Amused...
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 2:58pm.I had to read the follow up in the Reader's Digest and not my local paper! LOL!
I was surprised to learn it happened a second time too, after they married I believe... That whole story is just kind of strange to me. Either this guy is a really good actor or he's a medical phenomenon!
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
Careful Merwyn!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 9:08am.I'm a large woman and my weight alone could snap that limb! LOL!
OK, that's a scenerio I didn't consider! Thanks for pointing that out! It makes perfect sense to me now!
Sometimes I'm NOT the brightest crayon in the box!
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
When first reported
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:50am.Yikes
Submitted by Sarah on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 6:58pm.Wonder if the heat is getting to people.
Here is what the Olympian has at this time.
Heat?!
Submitted by ctqwn on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 7:25pm.I saw it!
Submitted by jlw on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 8:24pm.I hope those planets get back where they belong before I get stabbed!
I got up too
Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 8:28pm.We Saw It Too & ENPEN!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:40am.Enpen - i'm speaking strictly for myself here, but whether domestic violence is in the headlines or not, I've personally been accosted downtown on several occassions and that's the reason I find downtown to be a dangerous place. There's seriously no reason why a homeless individual needs to put their hands on me (my arm was grabbed as I was passing) and then to tell me I look like I could definitely spare a $20 spot to help them out. To me, that's just as much domestic violence as if I knew the person. He placed his hands on my person without permission and then made demands of me. He didn't ask, he told me what I should do.
I told one individual I didn't have any cash (I never carry cash, I only use debit/credit cards) and asked that he please let go of my arm. His reply? "I'll let go when you fork over some money." I forcibly pulled my arm away and never went back downtown again by myself. Nor will I. Nobody walking by came to my aid when they saw this man reach out & grab me as I passed him. There were no police around.
Why is it OK for this type of behavior to be tolerable just because somebody is homeless? I'm not homeless but if I just went around grabbing people & demanding money, I'd be arrested and citizens wouldn't stand for it. If I stabbed someone downtown for a cigarette or out of anger I'd be on the front page too.
So I can understand your statement but ask that you respect & understand the feelings of those of us who have been physically confronted and don't feel safe downtown. If you were afraid of spiders, you wouldn't want someone telling you your fear is without merit...
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
Your fear is without merit.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 1:07pm.Rob ~ That's Just It...
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:17pm.It wasn't just "one freak accident"! I've been physically stopped on 2 other occassions down there. I just don't feel there's a need to reach out & grab someone's arm or slap your hand on my shoulder for money. If I choose to stop, so be it. If I don't, don't put your hands on me and try & make me!
One time, while scared by it, I can see returning, but after 3 times, no thank you! Not alone anyway!
On a couple of different occassions, we've been approached by street kids wanting to know if we needed any drugs (on a Saturday afternoon walking to Mini Saigon to eat) another time my brother was visiting from out of town and we went downtown (his first experience there) and a girl was sitting on the hood of her car holding a cardboard sign saying PROSTITUTE and as we approached, she yelled at him what a good time she'd be for a few bucks. He told her no thank you, tried to walk off and she jumped off her car hood and followed us 2 blocks trying to get him to have sex with her. It was quite embarassing to both my brother and I. She was saying things like, "hey, you know you liked it with me a couple of nights ago" and "dude, you know this is the only way a man like you can get a girl in bed"...
One night my husband and I went to Ramblin' Jacks to eat (when Bread & Roses was across the street from it). Upon getting ready to enter, we were stopped by a homeless man asking us to bring him our leftovers when we were done. We told him we always take any leftovers home to our kids and after we were seated by a window, he stood there outside the window staring at us the whole time. At one point he even cupped his hands around his eyes and leaned into the glass to look at us. He would lick his lips and rub his stomach while we ate. When we left, he followed us to our car continually asking us why he couldn't have our leftovers and why we were too good to feed a man down on his luck.
We've gone to Jack in the Box by the Salvation Army downtown and witnessed fights in the SA's side yard, people asking us for money when we come or go and little children being sent over by their parent(s) to our car asking us for a couple of bucks or some cigarettes (we don't even smoke).
To me, these instances are bullying pure, plain & simple. I'm not anti-homeless I'm just tired of the physical handling & the bullying tactics. I'm all for helping those who need help and just 2 nights ago bought a man digging through the dumpster at Burger King on Cooper Point Road whatever he wanted to eat off the menu. He was cold, hungry and needed food. I regularly donate to the mission through my church every Sunday and we help financially support different charities who help the homeless children.
I'm confused by the new guy hanging out at CP Rd. and Harrison with the pit bull. He has several signs up around him. One says his dog needs meds, the one he holds says he needs a cheeseburger and a third I've seen him prop up says he's just wanting a cold beer. He approached my car last night while I was sitting at the light, knocked on the window and when I refused to roll it down (out of fear, I'll be honest) he called me a stuck up rich bitch. (I hardly classify driving an 8 yr. old dented up minivan as being stuck up or snooty!)
So it's not just downtown, it's on the west side too. I just haven't had good experiences going downtown. Once shame on you, twice shame on me mentality I guess.
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
I don't think that's fair
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:01pm.So true.
Submitted by OperaGirl on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:48pm."I'll let go when you fork over some money."
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:07pm.This is a good point, and
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:13pm.Why does a woman who is
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 7:59pm.Why does a woman who is abused not report it the police? Why does a man who is abused by his wife not report it to the police? Why does a child not tell on their parent when they are being abused? Why does someone not report a date rape?
What G said...
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:04pm.Onry:
I hope you carry a cell phone and should that kind of thing ever happen again, I'd suggest you immediately (when safe) dial 911 and get the Olympia police to come out, as that is nothing short of attempted robbery (at least in my book). Let the Prosecuting Attorney sort it out.
I don't believe that type of behavior is typical of all people in need. There are bad guys (and girls) out there and they need to be dealt with.
"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers
I Guess I Should Have But...
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:20pm.I do carry a cell phone but to be honest, I just wanted to get the heck outta Dodge! If I had called the police, who knows how long I would have had to hang around this guy waiting for a response! And it would have been my word against his!
I'm sure had I acted in self defense physically I'd of been arrested immediately though! LOL!
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
It disgusts me to even say
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:25pm.I've always wondered why I don't get accosted. I'm not big, I can't fight, it's only recently that I don't dress up for going out. I must look intimidating or something (and here I'll pause while those who've seen me laugh.)
Tammy's never been bothered either and she'd seemingly be an easier mark to harrass.
By the way
Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 8:29pm.Way to go!
Submitted by jlw on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 8:51pm.Nice going
Submitted by Debmonstrative on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 9:04pm.Hi, Deb!
Submitted by jlw on Tue, 08/28/2007 - 9:12pm.Ya know what really grinds my gears?
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 1:20pm.Why is the "transient" status of the people in these stories relevant? How does illuminating the fact that someone is houseless make this a better story? The Olympian for years did this same thing with the race of individuals. They've stopped that and focused on the "homeless" or "transient".
In my opinion, it's simply poor journalistic ethics. It's putting dollars over journalism. Sensationalism sells. Right now the Olympian is trying to sell us an image of downtown as a dark and scary place. Gangs, violent druggies, and child molesting houseless people around every corner. All of the trouble caused by drunks coming out of bars urinating and fighting all over the place, hitting up the mini mart and leaving beer cans everywhere? If you read the Olympian, you believe it's the houseless doing all of that.
If anybody agrees with me that the Olympian is targeting a certain population in order to sell papers, please contact the Olympian and let them know that you don't appreciate it. Also, give money to Olyblog so we can continue to make it more inclusive, and hopefully someday have enough people posting that we won't need the Olympian for our news.
Yep
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 1:25pm.I agree, Rob
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 1:34pm.If you did a survey of all the domestic violence cases (family member on family member), you'd mostlikely find that the overwhelming majority have permanent addresses, or something of the sort.
Using "transient" as part of the story was nothing short of sensationalism.
On the other hand, if homelessness is such the precurser to violence, I'd say that the sooner that we solve the homeless problem the better. To those that think that you just pack up the homeless and send them some other place, you haven't thought through the issue beyond the point of your nose.
"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers
To even hypothesize that
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 1:50pm.Rob ~ Let's Be Honest Though...
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:24pm.Not every homeless person is honest, kind &/or gentle. Desperation causes some people to do some pretty ugly things. The sex offenders who register as transients aren't exactly poster children for your description of homeless people!
Which leads me to my earlier point, I have no idea if the person grabbing me or following me for a block or 2 is a dangerous criminal or sex offender. So as a woman, I think I have ever right to be fearful of what I might encounter downtown or of the person who physically stops me to get what they want from me financially.
I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just pointing out a perspective you may not be able to see in your shoes!
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
Maybe I Should Add...
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 3:34pm.that I realize there's usually one in the bunch who ruins it for all. One person can give a group of people an unwarranted bad name or reputation. Some people, after having had a troubling experience, just have trouble getting past the point that that one person isn't a reflection of all the others.
I see where you're encouraging me to do that, but I honestly & obviously still struggle with that to some degree. My way of working through it is to help those I feel I can help make a difference for from a distance while working toward being a kinder, forgiving person. And I am working on it! I want to be able to enjoy & feel safe in the area I live in! The wharf is my favorite place to be when I'm feeling I need a release before having a nervous breakdown!
JstPlnOnry
"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown
To those questioning the
Submitted by Glasses on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 4:09pm.To those questioning the validity of a stabbing in response to a push/shove and whether or not a stab in the back is 'self-defense': When abuse is an ongoing fact of life for a person, whether they be the abuser or the victim, we as onlookers simply cannot judge from afar. Abuse is physical, mental and emotional. We don't know the events leading up to what was seen in the public eye. Harassment and abuse make ones life a frightening existence. Please consider this when speculating on the actions of a stranger. Unless you have personally dealt with long-term violence and abuse in your life, you cannot imagine the hell it can create.
JustPlnOnry: I'm sorry to hear the experiences you've had have made you fearful of downtown. I, too, am a woman living in Olympia. I imagine I would've reacted in a similar way. I've had the fortune to work with Bread and Roses for the past year, however, and feel no fear in downtown, no matter what time of the day. When you have the chance to work closely with people on the street, you become a part of their community. As Rob has said, we need to encourage community that involves all members of the social strata. The fear dissolves. When I walk from my office on 4th to Percival landing now, I'm stopped many times because I'm friends with the folks the Olympian is trying to make me fearful of. They know me from the office, and often just want to chat or share a story. It's an amazing feeling knowing that if I were ever bothered by a stranger and one of my pals from Bread and Roses saw, I would be protected. I feel much more safe with my homeless friends than with a group of housed strangers because I know them. They know me. We celebrate birthdays, share photos, comfort each other when sad, congratulate each other on successes.
There will always be the percentage of visible 'bad guys' for us to point to, but not just in the homeless community. How many teachers, coaches, religious figures have we known to abuse children? Do we stop respecting all teachers, coaches and religious figures because of the visible ones who've done awful things? No. Then why stereotype the homeless?
I absolutely agree with your
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 08/29/2007 - 8:04pm.I absolutely agree with your first paragraph. None of us should be making judgements until this all comes out, and even then "who are we to judge?"? Bad sentence structure, I know.
For the rest of your post: You are an awesome person. I wish that I had half of the empathy that you display so freely and please don't let anyone ever convince you that you are anything other than an awesome person.
I do understand your
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 08/30/2007 - 10:03am.Recently I had a meeting in Seattle at the Smith Tower, I don't know if that neighborhood is considered SODO or not, but it's close to the stadiums. I had to walk a few blocks from where I parked so I got to experience the neighborhood a bit. There was some kind of project housing facility, and you could tell that the folks hanging out in the front were very poor. There was a guy who was wither mentally ill or selling drugs who kept walking around the block the entire time as I sat and ate my lunch. There was the proto-typical screaming mentally ill guy asking for quarters at the top of his lungs. There were also people in business suits and "nice" clothing going about their business or just strolling through the neighborhood. Nobody seemed afraid, nobody seemed put off by the screaming guy. I infer that people are not afraid in those neighborhoods because they spend enough time there to know that there is really no danger. Maybe they don't go there by themselves at 2AM, but in the day or the evening it's a bustling part of town. I am not afraid in most situations, I have gotten nervous in parts of Portland and Seattle. Never in Olympia, not even close. I urge you to come back downtown, always with a friend and see how it goes. I've honestly never met anybody in person who has had so many things happen to them downtown in such strange ways, it's almost unbelievable, you must be some kind of magnet or something.
Anyhow, I hope you do come back downtown. The only way we're going to "revitalize" it is if people do start coming.