Bush Commutes Libby Prison Sentence

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Bush Commutes Libby Prison Sentence

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 2:27pm.

Deleted because Clinton would have done it too.

Merwyn Haskett's blog
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thats it..

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 2:34pm.

im now officially sick to my stomach. George W Bush & Dick Cheney are the biggest traitors this country has ever seen.

I can't wait...

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 2:49pm.

It will be interesting to watch all the "she wasn't covert anyway" rhetoric.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

Cliff note's version anyone?

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 3:15pm.

I know what he was convicted of but does anyone want to give me the details? I really tried not to pay attention but now I'm feeling forced to.

Here is the list of Slick Willy's

Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 5:17pm.

similar actions. Seems some of the guys on this list are much worse than Libby.

If you start looking up some of those names, Scooter looks like a very very small fish in the sea of scummy decisions. But I'm sure since Billy Bob did the pardoning or commuting, its all ok. Or maybe my sensibilities are just mixed up. :-)

“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Friendly questions for OlyCop

Submitted by stevenl on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:14pm.

Yes, your sensibilities are mixed up. We are talking about now, today, the present time. Dredging up Clinton's foibles would be just about as useful as bringing up Reagan's long list of Iran-Contra crimes or Nixon's Watergate crew. Bush is the subject here, let's stick with the topic. Two questions for you: Do you think Bush did the right thing regarding his Scooter decision, and, be honest, if a Democrat had gone into Iraq under the same circumstances as Bush, and if that war had been conducted with the same results, do you really believe the Republicans would support that action? And since I'm already here, do you agree with Dick Cheney that he is not a member of the Executive branch? And do you now regard Sen. Lugar as "whiney"? Also, have you read Michael D. Tanner's Leviathan on the Right : how big-government conservatism brought down the Republican revolution? While the conservatives have been busy beating the dead horse of the Clinton administration, it seems their own ship is undergoing a mutiny.

Sorry my fellow grouch,

Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:40pm.

I missed your post.

My sensibilities comment was for Rick. But if mine are messed up with respect to this topic, ol' AL is WAY messed up!

As far as what Bush did with Scooter, given the fact that he obstructed justice and committed perjury, yeah I think he should have done his time. I'm not all in a twitter though as Scooter still has a lot hanging over his head and if the lead law enforcement officer of this country (Clinton) can commit perjury and not feel any pain at all, Scooter can get a pass on his prison time.
As for the second part of your question, don't you think it is better and fair to deal with that in a new thread? Lets not hijack this thread. I will answer your questions, but not here, ok??

I'm a libertarian anyway. The only snag for me at this time with the libertarians is their stance on abortion.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

How Many?

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 5:28pm.

How many on the Clinton laundry list had served at least a portion of their sentence?

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

Republicans apparently endorse treason..

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 5:37pm.

Republicans apparently endorse treason..

And demos endorse

Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:07pm.

rapists and possession of child porn.

So, my understanding was that ol' Scooter wasn't convicted of treasonist acts, but I could be wrong. And speaking of treasonists, how is Watada?

Lets see, Scooter was convicted of perjury, and what did Slick Willy do? Oh yes, the same thing.

Seems that Scooter still has quite a lot to deal with his sentence, just no prison time.

Given the scum Slick Willy pardoned, GWB has to stoop lower to meet that low bar set by Billy Bob.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Treason..

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:09pm.

Treason..

CIA agent outed during a time of war..

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:10pm.

CIA agent outed during a time of war..

Ill let the GOP keep on Clinton's weeny..

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:14pm.

I could care less. Bush is a traitor right now..

Scooter wasn't convicted of that,

Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:27pm.

...treason! He was convicted of obstruction of justice and perjury. And it was a cheesy level of perjury, but perjury never the less. I think he needs to feel the pain of that decision he made. But so does Slick Willy, but apparently the libs don't think so. Lets just hate Bush.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

OlyCop

Submitted by stevenl on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:33pm.

You skipped over my questions!

So your saying its OK to out CIA agents during a time of war?

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:33pm.

So your saying its OK to out CIA agents during a time of war?

No, I'm

Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:45pm.

saying he wasn't convicted of that.

Apparently there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of that. Just like Lynch, not the rapist of the little girl. But even though there wasn't evidence to convict him of that, he had enough problems, I'm guessing you wouldn't want him living in your house with your kids knowing what you know about him now.

It is never ok to out a CIA agent in a time of war or not. Heck we need all the agents we can, so they can fly enemy combatants to other countries to torture them. *rolleyes*
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

So we can both agree that it is not good to out a CIA agent..

Submitted by bubba z (not verified) on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:52pm.

So we can both agree that it is not OK to out a CIA agent during a time of war.

Would you agree that Government Officials outing a CIA agent during a time of war is treasonous..

y/n

There wasn't enough evidence

Submitted by Meta Hogan on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:08am.

There wasn't enough evidence to convict Libby because he refused to remember the evidence. That's his right, I suppose. I don't remember what I had for lunch on Feb 6, 2005, so it could really happen to any of us. "Just like Lynch, not the rapist of the little girl"... Lynch was cleared of those charges by DNA evidence, and they eventually found the guy that really did it. So, no, NOT just like. It makes me sick that a man who didn't rape anyone will be thought of as a rapist for years now because the Olympian can't keep it in their pants long enough to get the story straight.

Let's see....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:48pm.

I'm "messed up" because (a) I know that the "she wasn't covert" statement will be used on this discussion and (b) I asked how many of the "Clinton list" had served part of their sentences.

Hmmm.....this is beginning to smell very much like a fish wrapper.

Techniques never change.....just the places.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

Now, I'm not defending....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:57pm.

...but let's at least be accurate when speaking about the issue -

In August 1994, he was indicted for having sex with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer. Despite the charges, he continued his campaign and was re-elected in November 1994. Reynolds initially denied the charges, which he claimed were racially motivated. On August 22, 1995 he was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. He resigned his seat on October 1, 1995.

Reynolds, who had a wife and a child at the time of the incident, was sentenced to five years in prison and expected to be released in 1998. However, in April 1997, he was convicted on 15 unrelated counts of bank fraud and lying to SEC investigators. These charges resulted in an additional sentence of 78 months in federal prison. Reynolds served all of his first sentence and served forty-two months in prison for the later charges. At that point, U.S. President Bill Clinton commuted the sentence for bank fraud. As a result, Reynolds was released from prison and served the remaining time in a half way house.

The previous text comes from "answers.com", which, if I'm not incorrect, is directly related to Wikipedia, the historical source that allows anyone to alter the text. I really don't know anything about Reynolds, other than the above text, but I do know it would take a real political fool to commute his sentence based on the information above. Therefore, I shall seek some additional info on Reynolds, as I think Clinton is politically more savvy than this.....

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

I assume you're referring to...

Submitted by Rick on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 6:59pm.

...Mel Reynolds? From Wikipedia:

In August 1994, he was indicted for having sex with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer. Despite the charges, he continued his campaign and was re-elected in November 1994. Reynolds initially denied the charges, which he claimed were racially motivated. On August 22, 1995 he was convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. He resigned his seat on October 1, 1995.
Reynolds, who had a wife and a child at the time of the incident, was sentenced to five years in prison and expected to be released in 1998. However, in April 1997, he was convicted on 15 unrelated counts of bank fraud and lying to SEC investigators. These charges resulted in an additional sentence of 78 months in federal prison. Reynolds served all of his first sentence and served forty-two months in prison for the later charges. At that point, U.S. President Bill Clinton commuted the sentence for bank fraud. As a result, Reynolds was released from prison and served the remaining time in a half way house.

It looks to me like this guy did 5 years on the pokey. That's a long chalk from pardon with no time served for lying to a Federal Prosecutor.

When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow

That's a long chalk from

Submitted by OlyCop on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 7:13pm.

pardon with no time served for lying to a Federal Prosecutor. Which your boy, Slick Willy did how much time for the same thing?? Hmmmm
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Time to stop beating the dead horse

Submitted by stevenl on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 7:34pm.

of the Clinton administration and address the current problem. Per your request, I started a new thread just for you, my fellow crusty character.

WHAT?

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 10:32pm.

At this point I have less against Clinton than I do Bush, but NO we should not just forget about Clinton! I can't believe you'd even say that. Lying FLAT OUT to the American people, big "no no" on my list. I don't care if it's over smoking dope, or sending troops to Iraq, a lie is a lie.

If Clinton were a cop, he'd be in PRISON. Some of you need to get off your high friggin horse and realize your poster boy with a penis problem is NOT a friggin saint and deserves to be called on his BS for as long as I'm alive.

You're right, we should not

Submitted by stevenl on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 4:12am.

You're right, we should not forget about President Clinton, and you'll notice I have not expressed an opinion about him here pro or con. My point is that this thread started out with a focus on a questionable decision by our current CEO, and my cranky friend OlyCop has attempted to divert the attention away from the inconvenient truth about the present day by bringing up the dead past-- a common trick when losing an argument. However, we are not arguing here, we are discussing. Or at least that is the ideal. We all know he dislikes Clinton and Big Al. Yawn. I'm more interested in what he thinks about Bush. I wonder if it is possible for him to address this 21st century issue without dragging in the now stale Clinton crew-- talking about Bush on his own terms. The whole conservative dynamic in America right now is very interesting, and I would like to know where OlyCop stands in this drama. But all I hear is about how bad Bill and Al are in comparison. OK, OK, we get the picture. We know how he feels. Time to move on and take the next step. That's all I'm saying, Norm.

a common trick when losing an argument,

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 6:29am.

and one used here by my fellow libs here on olyblog on a regular basis. I guess this is an acknowledgment by my old buddy Stevenl that you libs are losing lots of arguments. :-)
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Well, Norm.....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 5:48am.

As long as we are going down the road of "a lie is a lie", we'd all better be careful of what we say. When asked "does this dress make my butt look big" we need to be totally honest. We need to use precisely the same honesty that we'd use if questioned by our spouses as to how many drinks we had with the boys (safe question for me....I don't drink).

Then again, maybe we need to question the validity of the questions. How important was it for the American public to know what two adults did behind closed doors, versus the importance of starting wars.

Personally, I'm not too concerned about adult games, but I'm real concerned about wars.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

My feeling exactly.

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 6:09am.

AL,

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 6:31am.

not all lying is the same. Lying under oath, huge no-no. Scooter may have lied, apparent a jury of his peers thought so. Clearly Slick Willy did lie, he admitted to it, but only because he got caught red handed.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

A lie is a lie

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 7:52am.

From the President. I don't care if your butt is big in a dress Larry, I won't lie to you about that.

Under oath, Clinton lied. He lied to the American public. See the difference? Concern yourself about wars all you want, I don't care. I have my measuring stick as far as "good people" Clinton does not fall under this measurement. I never said Bush did, but don't try and paint Clinton as someone demi-God who lead the American people to some gloryland. He was a sex hound who preferred not to bring his sexual frustrations to his wife.

And the difference....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:25am.

And the difference between Clinton's lie to the American people and Bush's refusal to answer a question that he needed to lie to maintain a profile is???????

See, my mom and dad taught me that you can lie without saying a thing.

In my mind, "I don't know" when you really DO know, is a lie.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

Let's try again

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:38am.

Clinton = liar

Bush = liar

I never said bush was a great guy. He's not. in fact I'd put more faith into Clinton (Bill) at this point. It makes me sick to my stomach though when people present clinton as some kind of angel who carried us through a troubling time. He and Al Gore seem to be held on some kind of pedastal by people.

so, to review

Clinton = liar

Bush = liar

I'm 100% with Norm on this one...

Submitted by Phil Owen on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 2:27pm.

Bush=liar

Clinton=liar

And the missing context here is that Clinton didn't merely lie about unfaithfulness to his wife; he lied on the stand in a sexual harrasment trial in which he was the defendant. The prosecution was attempting to show a pattern of inappropriate sexual behavior (ie having sex with someone he had hiring/firing power over) as evidence that he was the kind of person who'd drop his pants in front of Paula Jones.

Clinton was a scumbag, hands down. He does not, however, hold a candle to Bush, who lied his way into a disaster of a war. Or to whomever it was who outed Plame, placing her at risk and ruining her career, for sake of political gain. Or to Libby, who apparently perjured himself to protect the "whomever", also for political gain.

Frankly I'm unsurprised at all of this. It seems ludicrous to me to offer vast worldly power and prestige to a person, and then to expect them to be decent and honest. You don't get to have both.

The Canaanite's Call

Phil's right about that,

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 2:44pm.

It seems ludicrous to me to offer vast worldly power and prestige to a person, and then to expect them to be decent and honest.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Additionally....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 7:03pm.

Reynolds resigned from Congress in 1995 after a state court convicted him of sexual misconduct with a 16-year-old campaign volunteer. He served 2 1/2 years in prison for the crime. Two years later Reynolds was sentenced to a 6 1/2-year prison term on federal corruption charges, including wire fraud and bank fraud.

In November 1999 the former Rhodes scholar wrote a letter to Clinton and asked to be released from prison to a halfway house so that he could earn money for his family.

Under the terms of the clemency grant Reynolds will go to the halfway house to serve the remainder of his prison term. Federal officials said that Reynolds will live at the Salvation Army halfway house in Chicago at least until September 2002.

Reynolds, 47, will be allowed to work during the day but must return to the halfway house at night.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

I find it stunning...

Submitted by Rick on Mon, 07/02/2007 - 8:32pm.

...that anyone would even try to compare Bush to Clinton. If we had had (please, please, PLEASE) Clinton (or Gore) for the last 6 years, we would be SO much better off. Al Qaeda would actually be out of business, no Iraq war, NOLA would be rebuilt (with levies), the world wouldn't hate us, etc, etc, etc.

I find it stunning

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 6:34am.

Rick you haven't offered the government your crystal ball to use to see into the future, or alternate realities.

Seeing as Clinton did so much to stop the Al Qaeda movement when he was in office. It built up in relative safety under Billy Bob.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Do we have to go over the facts again?

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:15am.

You seem to forget that you lost this argument already.

What??? ROTFLMAO

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:21am.

there you go again Rick, deciding when an argument is won or lost. How did I lose any argument? What argument? Just like your view on life and sensibilities there in, is the correct one. Such arrogance, but humorous though!
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

What OlyCop can teach us about arrogance:

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:57am.

"I don't like what comes out of the UN, so no comment." --OC

I suppose I'm arrogant as

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 9:05am.

I suppose I'm arrogant as well. Good day for self-reflection I suppose. So Rick, do you like everything that comes out of the UN? Hoping for one great big united world under socialism?

That's the best you got??

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 9:07am.

Pretty weak evidence of my arrogance vs yours.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

You have a high opinion of yourself

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 9:11am.

I was just dismissive of you.

You were dismissive of the entire rest of the world.

Back to the issue and leave the personalities out...

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 8:56am.

Blaming the Al Queda buildup on the Clinton Administration fondly reminds me of Condi Rice's quote about WTC 9/11 - "We were using the security system that the previous administration had put in place" Yeah....like they hadn't changed anything from January to September.

9/11/01 happened during the Bush Administration and according to record they had plenty of warning (over 50 memos) that should have told the President that the screws needed to be tightened just a bit.

As to what took place during the Clinton Administration - a whole lot of time, money and attention got spent by Congress on finding out what went on behind closed doors between two consenting adults. Who knows what might have happened had we been focused on domestic security instead of sexual titilation.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

Of course

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 9:06am.

less could have been spent if he just would have up and admitted to "sexual relations" with his intern. GOSH it must feel great to just spew the truth!

Yeah,

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 9:14am.

no responsibility for the Clinton admin and the Al Qaeda group who just appeared on 9/11. Blame it all on Bush, but boy the Clinton fans are quick to take sole credit for the economy, cuz the Reagan/Bush years had nothing to do with that. Please, lol

“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

You mean the Reagan/Bush

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 10:07am.

You mean the Reagan/Bush years where we had the big recession and people were out of work and losing their homes and Grays Harbor practically collapsed and my mother had to work in a fish 'n' chip joint?

Yeah, and there was total

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 1:54pm.

economic Nirvana under Clinton.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

I owned my own home, had

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 1:58pm.

I owned my own home, had over an acre, had three cars, bought all the toys I wanted, and still had money left over. A year after Bush was elected I had one car and got to keep the toys that had already broke.

Well see the good that came out of

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 2:17pm.

that is you were more in-line with the world that many here would like for all of us. :-)

The economy must not be all that bad now. People still drive with a lead foot even though gas is over $3 a gal. And there was no shortage of people buying the new iphone. Unemployment is low, stock market is up to record highs.

But if we have a nice big terror attack here, our economy will be in the crapper, and we all may be living in the tent city.

“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

Driving at (fingers crossed,

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 2:21pm.

Driving at (fingers crossed, don't jinx it, gonna happen anyway) $2.95 per Gallon is one of those vicious cycle things. I have to get Tammy and I to work, I have to get her to her treatments, I pay what I pay for gas because I don't have a choice. Our apartment won't let us keep a horse and buggy.

I think the iphone is stupid. Maybe I shouldn't say that, but I personally have no wish for one. Whether it's Cabbage Patch Kids, Playstations, iPhones or sneakers I think it's stupid when people wait in line for hours and fight each other over stupid merchandise.

I think that's a record for the number of times I've said "stupid" in a single paragraph. That's a huge improvement from when I was 16 and crammed dozens of f-bombs in a single sentence.

Someone please explain.....

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 9:45am.

How does Bush get a free pass after 50 warnings that were ignored and the blame gets shifted to the Clinton years?

Should we blame another President because his Administration empowered Bin Laden?

When does George Bush have to be responsible for the things that have taken place during his Administration?

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

When does George Bush

Submitted by OlyCop on Tue, 07/03/2007 - 1:56pm.

have to be responsible for the things that have taken place during his Administration?
Oh, he and the party are feeling the pain now.
“One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.” —Sun Tzu

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