it seems to me that this space might be the best starting point for anything involved with Moxlie Creek. If this was possible we could turn it back into a native habitat, while at the same time help to lower pollutants in the east bay. One study i glanced over says that Moxlie Creek is the reason for 43% of the Fecal Coliform found in EastBay. That is huge. And we might have the opportunity to change that."

Thornton Creek is one example.

Damn the culverts, full stream ahead!

"Indian and Moxlie creeks run underneath the site on the Chestnut Street alignment in a City culvert that spans from East Bay to Interstate 5. As part of public planning process for this site that included 4 community workshops, the concept of daylighting the creeks was explored but that action was recommended."

I'm confused by the wording. Was daylighting recommended or not? If so, why didn't they do it? Maybe culverting was the recommended action. Were these the community workshops held a few years ago (I seem to remember something happening back then)? Perhaps there are folks who have been advocating this for a while who could be pulled into this process and contribute their wisdom and experience. Anyone out there been through this before? Any thoughts?"

The salmon talked me into a lifestyle change. There's a hole, a pipe, in the bulkhead at the East Bay Marina. Every year salmon swim into that hole, trying to get back home. Salmon have to make it all the way up Plum Street in that hole. that hole is Moxlie Creek. Once you know that there are salmon down there it's hard to forget. You imagine their moony eyes while you walk home from the bar in your slutty boots. It's hard to be extraordinarily vacuous when you always have the salmon in the back of your mind: in the pipe down there - on their way to daylight at Watershed Park. Salmon are the history that isn't trivia. They are what was here before...I think about how many of doing any kind of progressive work in this region swim beneath the surface combing for what was here before, and taking inventory of what is now. There's the chance that you will be changed by what you are looking for. --Rachel Corrie

Damn the culverts, full stream ahead!

This is from the West Bay Drive Park Phase I description, but these might be monies we should look at.

Hola all, I wanted to propose an agenda item idea:

Finding a good contact in the city government for this daylighting project--

--any thoughts on how would be a good way to go about that?

But, rain would be a big problem for a daylighted Moxlie Creek.

When we talk about daylighting Moxlie, we should remember that historically the mouth of Moxlie was actuall down by where the Chevron and Texaco are now. Most of the land north of there is fill that filled in a tidal slough. Granted, Moxlie did "flow" during low tide through that area to about where is flows during low tide now, but it wasn't a creek in how a lot of people think of creeks today (with stream side trees, for example).

And, about the rain. A daylighted Moxlie Creek would be surrounded by square miles of impervious surface. This is an important consideration because impervious surface is one of the most vexing questions when talking about urban stream restoration. When you pave over land, the water acts different. Instead of gradually seeping into the ground as it would in a forest, it runs straight to the lowest point (a stream for example) and continues moving. So, a daylighted Moxlie would flood regularly during the winter, scouring out any salmon eggs that might have been laid there.

Daylighting Moxlie would be a choice of what you think is good looking, not neccesarily what you think is good for salmon. That's probably why after almost ten years of salmon recovery in Puget Sound that no one has seriously approached it. Its way too expensive for very little salmon benefit.

From the wikipedia entry on daylighting:

The results of daylighting efforts on Thornton Creek have been mixed. Heavy rains, at times, has led to flooding due to inadequate detention basins. Soap suds, oil slicks, and species kills have occurred occasionally as the visibility of streams leads to heightened awareness of stream water quality. Increased levels of fecal coliforms in Thornton Creek counts has been a recurring problem and has been variably attributed to pets and wildlife such as grazing birds. The number of spawning coho salmon has remained modest dropping from a high of 30 to 10 in 2000.

Again, I apologize for being a pooper, I'm usually very excited about salmon restoration projects. But there are many other considerations to be made in addition to just putting sunlight onto a creek.

What is stormater?

Stormwater management

Stormwater Program

are fun

Damn the culverts, full stream ahead!

feasability and opportunity costs get in the way. Right now it's just some people gathering around a table and spending too much time on the internet when they should be working.

Also, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think this is a single-issue project that should be meaured soley by its effectiveness in restoring salmon runs to Moxlie creek compared to other habitiat restoration projects.  I think there is more to it than that.  

Damn the culverts, full stream ahead!

So I went to the Brotherhood for the meeting, hung around till about 7:20 and left. I have a pretty good feeling that the meeting happened, but unfortunatly for me I got all self-concious about the fact that I didn't know what group to walk up to. I am sorry to all of those that made it, I do want to play a influential role in re-creating a Moxlie Creek habitat. So with that said I will make it to the next meeting.... There will be another one, won't there?

So if it's ok for me to play in your tree-house, I would love to be informed on what happened.