A Discussion Regarding Privacy Rights, Concealed Carry is Like HIV?

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A Discussion Regarding Privacy Rights, Concealed Carry is Like HIV?

Submitted by Mike on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 7:58am.

privacy

In the discussion regarding TESC releasing student info to military recruiters, I posted the comparison of that available student information to the protected status of the list of concealed carry permits issued by the City of Olympia. Not really up in arms over it, but I think it's interesting to note where privacy is permitted to exist and where it is not.

The Fire Inside posted the following regarding the privacy of the concealed carry permit information:

I'm really going to hijack the thread here, but if the list of Concealed Carry Permit holders were to be made public based on the argument of "public safety" and the comfort level of being near an individual with a firearm I would bet that just as equal an argument can be made to make a public list available of those who carry HIV and AIDS.

Ok, you have bet that an equal argument can be made for making public a list of folks with a serious and infectious disease. Please make that argument and be sure to cover the issue of choice - the fact that folks who are carrying HIV and other serious infectious diseases among us have not chosen to have that disease in the same way that a person chooses to carry a concealed and deadly weapon on their person. Please show me that equal argument.

Security 6 then added the following:

Might as well publish lists of blacks, homosexuals, high school dropouts, mentally disabled people, owners of large dogs, or any other group that makes folks uncomfortable. It's all about having an open and accepting mind.

I am not sure what S6 is thinking, maybe it's a simple off-hand comment, but some of these groups he mentions are classes specifically protected because of bias and prejudice. I am having trouble figuring out what S6 means with this post.

So, I am opening this thread for the conversation that I think might need to occur regarding the issues raised.

I would love to see this discussion remain respectful so that we can delve into the similarities and the differences between a group of folks who want a permit to carry a concealed weapon in public with these other groups of folks that TFI and S6 have identified.

Your turn, play nice please. That's a ground rule that I would like to set for this discussion, if it is to take place. Let's try to understand each other in this discussion.

Mike's blog
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Anthony Whitfield knowingly

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 8:06am.

Anthony Whitfield knowingly infected at least 17 women with HIV. In effect he carried a concealed deadly weapon. When's the last time a gun owner shot 17 people in Olympia?

Now take a little while to find your way in here
Now take a little while to make your story clear.
Nick Drake

Lets stir up this hornets nest again!

Submitted by eregular on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 8:25am.

Hurray!!

mike...

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 11:41am.

i respect you and like your posts but i feel you are to easily antagonized. please don't be sucked in by the limiting ignorance of other wise intelligent people. let them make their silly (and out right bizarre) comments.

I'm sure the daily 0's comment section was once a place for rational discourse, but those with consistently unbending agendas found out they could get a rise out of people and look at what it has become.

preserving olyblog as a decent blog means allowing people to post whats important to them and ignoring them when they become simple parrots on certain issues, repeating the same thing over and over again.

don't you see security 6 does this on purpose? he is an intelligent and capable blogger who somehow confused touting his cause for local media. oh well. let him be confused. the same with the fire inside and jt and the others in the extremely vocal minority about guns. it's well within their rights to post whatever they want, but you don't have to respond to everything they say. just take a deep breath and remember that it's exactly what they want you to do.

i don't mean to slight any blogger here, but for me, the gun issue is tired. thats just me. i can choose to read gun threads or not, i can choose to gloss past gun comments or not. it just takes a willingness to coexist without fighting constantly. i don't respond to them for the same reason i don't make every single issue on olyblog about how we were right to blockade the port. i can just be content in being right and not rub it in anyones face.

i wish the gun lovers here would learn to do the same.

so mike, i respectfully deviate from your post because it's not worth commenting on. but thank you for posting it none the less.

good show sir!

Submitted by eregular on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 1:18pm.

Well done!

Thanks, I think you are right about all that.

Submitted by Mike on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 7:18pm.

So I do this on purpose?

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 8:02pm.

"don't you see security 6 does this on purpose? he is an intelligent and capable blogger who somehow confused touting his cause for local media. oh well. let him be confused. the same with the fire inside and jt and the others in the extremely vocal minority about guns. it's well within their rights to post whatever they want, but you don't have to respond to everything they say. just take a deep breath and remember that it's exactly what they want you to do."

Lesse, on nearly every post I have made "touting my cause" I have checked with Rick first to see if he felt it was relevant for Olyblog...

I guess it is okay to tout any other cause except this one?

Last time I checked I have been stirring up a small hornet's nest worth of activity regarding carrying guns in Oly. The OPD is working on changing practices, and last time I was at the BroHo I had a great conversation with Meta and she told me that InterCity Transit is trying to figure out how to properly integrate the carrying of firearms on the bus issue I dropped in their lap. I played a major role in changing their unlawful "no weapons" policy.

Of course that isn't local news is it?

As far as the absurd notion of trying to see who has a CPL in this town, I meet absurdity with absurdity. Some people want information on CPL holders in some dubious idea of "public health" disregarding that CPL holders have already passed an extensive FBI background check, and the lower crime rates involving CPL holders compared to the general population.

Quite frankly I think it just as absurd for Joe Sixpack to know who has a CPL as they need to know who has AIDS or TB or who is part of any other group of society some are uncomfortable with. Maybe there should be a public registry of young radical muslim males?

Pretty silly ain't it?

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect

Keep Up the Good Work Six.

Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 11:46pm.

Your posts are excellent and certainly appropriate for Olyblog. The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is about individual rights of our citizens, including our local citizens. Keep it up!

Thanks,

Jeff Brigham

"America’s greatest chapter is still to be written, for the best is yet to come." President Ronald Reagan

the fact that folks who are

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 1:31pm.

the fact that folks who are carrying HIV and other serious infectious diseases among us have not chosen to have that disease in the same way that a person chooses to carry a concealed and deadly weapon on their person.

If the argument is based on "public safety," though, why does it matter if the individual intended to infect themselves?

I don't think many people intend to contract a deadly disease - be it HIV, AIDS or any other disease modern medicine struggles to contain.

Yet wouldn't you want to know whether a person is carrying TB (New York City even has a Bureau of Tuberculosis Control)?

I don't think the standard of disclosing public information based on public safety - whether it is exercising a right or carrying a deadly disease - should be determined by whether the person wanted to be placed in that category.

Why do inquiring minds want

Submitted by ctqwn on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 10:40pm.

Why do inquiring minds want to know who has a CWP? Wiser minds would be more concerned about those folks who carry and don't have a permit, i.e. your basic criminal types. Best to just assume that anyone you don't know for sure isn't carrying, is.

Anyone w/ a permit and minding their own business should be a model for your own behavior.

Let me

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:23pm.

Point out again that open carry does not require a permit unless you are in a vehicle. Your basic criminal type isn't very likely to open carry though...

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect

Question Six

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:35pm.

Does "vehicle" include a bus or other public transport? Note, this question does not represent participation in a gun rights thread. The topic was raised at a city transit meeting last night.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

:-)

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:42pm.

you are taking this not posting on gun rights thread seriously....

Anyway, and I thought I had explained it to IT already, but here goes again...

RCW 9.41.050

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

There is no requirement to conceal the pistol, merely that a CPL is required. Also, I am not aware of any court cases that clarify vehicle. For instance technically I was in violation on my sailboat until I got a CPL, however it is also my residence... The way the law is written I'm not even sure you can get on a bicyle with a loaded handgun without a CPL. Just another minor "reasonable" infringement on our rights...

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect

Thanks,

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:58pm.

So it appears that you probably cannot open carry on a bus then, unless you have a CPL. That's what I was really trying to clarify.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

That's right

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 2:44pm.

Vehicles are the only exception to unlicensed OC in this state. But with a CPL I can carry however I please in a vehicle. If I felt for one minute that the drivers and IT had a clear grasp on this issue I would OC on the bus at least once just to do it. I know of a couple of people who OC on King County Metro and have had no problems, but then again for some reason that part of the state has a really clear grasp on the realities of the law. I am far more comfortable OCing in downtown Seattle during rush hour when there are cops everywhere on the street and on the sidewalk than I am OCing in Oly...

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect

Is this a joke?

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:21pm.

Nope

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:24pm.

I believe there are some who are not satisfied with an unconstitutional impairment on our rights by requiring a permit to exercise a civil right, they want to know exactly WHO is exercising their civil rights....

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect

Can we have a public

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:26pm.

Can we have a public registry of who's buying spray paint? After all, unlike Race it's a choice to own and carry. I want to know who could potentially share their vision on my property.

Now take a little while to find your way in here
Now take a little while to make your story clear.
Nick Drake

+1 Merwyn

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 1:27pm.

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect

+2 Merwyn!

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 4:06pm.

You can almost always speak for me on most topics! LOL!

You figure that one out!

"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown

I think we should close this one.

Submitted by Mike on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 7:23pm.

+48

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 9:59pm.

for me, just because.

Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes

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