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Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 1:50pm.
Recently a docent posted this in the comments of a thread.
You can find the post here. Is this what the behavior of a docent should be? I have called for Mr. Richards to step down as a docent and let someone who can be fair, civil and helpful fill the spot. What do you think? C. Edit. I found this today as well. Kind of a post what we want comment as we see fit or find "your own damn blog".
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I sort of agree. Get rid
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:01pm.hmmm
Submitted by enpen on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:02pm.My vote is no. My vote is also that you, Tschida, concentrate more on producing original hyper-local content and less on commenting in other posts. If OlyBlog really is going to be a place for citizen journalism then I think it needs content producers.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
Seems a discussion about a docent...
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:38pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
No, I wouldn't
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 6:08pm.I would say it was meta journalism.
Hyperlocal would actually mean looking around you, rather than at Olyblog, and finding something to write about
A beat if you will. And, I don't think covering what Rob Richards writes is a beat.
If you want some help with this, ask me. I can help.
You don't want editors...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:17pm....because they wouldn't publish most of what you (Tschida) write. It tends to be argumentative, and not add content to the discussion.
As enpen suggests, focus less on OlyBlog, and more on producing content.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Yeah so much for free speech I guess.
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:08pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Huh?
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:13pm.That's not what I'm saying -- and I don't see how you got there.
In any case, you asked for editors. I don't think it's a good idea, and I'm not sure why you do. Just what criteria do you expect editors to use? If you expect them to filter out irrelevant comments, or comments that are argumentative, then yours would be the first to go.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Of course you can't...
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:40pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Well,
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 6:14pm....as seems to be the case with you, you're responding to what you think I said, not what I actually said.
I've been extremely clear about protecting open communication. My suggestion that certain topics might be better suited for a different blog is not "to limit free expression." (I happen to think that the gun talk actually results in the suppression of speech from some members of the community.) Free expression means that everyone gets to express themselves somewhere -- not necessarily everywhere (or here in particular). Do you see the difference?
Also, you can continue to call the social contract a speech code, but that's not how I see it (or most people here). To spell it out again: it's not designed to limit what people say, just how they say it.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
I think
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 7:52pm.You're letting your own feelings get in the way of seeing things regarding gun posts. Quite frankly a post can no more supress speech than Obama or Hillary talk can. One doesn't have to participate in a thread, one can ignore it and post something else. I see topics that don't interest me, I ignore them, I don't let them stop me from posting something else.
Anyway as you know most of the gun posts I do I run by you first, out of respect for your position on them and to make sure you feel like the ones I do post fit with the overall theme of the blog. I can promise you another one as soon as I hear back from the OPD about the outcome of my complaint.
The story so far: In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea. -The Restaurant at the end of the Universe
We've had this conversation before...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 8:33pm....so you can refer back to it (here and other posts) if you'd like to rehash. Bottom line: guns scare people (with good reason), and hence they stay away.
On a secondary note: I am perfectly able to express my feelings and be a docent at the same time. I believe Rob can too. Tschida is evidently having trouble understanding this. Are you also?
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
I know
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 8:37pm.that there is a difference between Rick the docent and Rick the individual. I still have a hard time believing, let alone accepting your statements on guns, but that is for another conversation, and if nothing else makes us fairly well balanced in that regard. Try as I might I can't accept your viewpoint, and you can't accept mine...
The story so far: In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea. -The Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Free speech includes Rob Richards and his opinions
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 10:51pm.I suggest
Submitted by Phil Owen on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:28pm.we put the "Breck Girl" right to work on it.
The Canaanite's Call
I say forums
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:29pm.Here.
Essentially keep the blogs, but limit who can post and what is posted (hyperlocal baby). And, if people want to throw fire at each other, they can do it in a more traditional forum setting.
Also, I cleaned up your post Tschida, I hope its close to what you intended on writing.
All that said, I'm all for a higher standard of behavior on the comment threads by docents.
And, I'm all for people starting their own blogs. Not just in a "if you don't like the rules, get your own court" sort of way, but that sometimes you need to branch out and find your own voice.
More blogs = better.
If you don't know how to start your own blog, ask me, I have some ideas.
This place is more like a
Submitted by NWarty on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:50pm.This place is more like a forum board than anything. You have comments (posters) in blogs (threads). It's no flippin' different.
Get rid of "docents" and just have moderators. Make it real simple folks. Have them be fair, impartial, and follows the rules and guidelines for posting. FIRST COME UP WITH SOME DAD-GUM GUIDELINES AND RULES and get rid of this silly social contract BS or whatever it's supposed to be.
Seems to pass the common sense test to me.
boards vs. blogs
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:54pm.I still think there needs to be a stronger wall between what we want to encourage as hyperlocal journalism and the non hyperlocal stuff that tends to use up a lot of oxygen.
This is why:
Olyblog may function more like a message board right now, but its not supposed to.
Understand Emmett, but
Submitted by NWarty on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:59pm.One relatively simple solution I think
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:46pm.Take the high road:
I think that would pretty much do the trick. Of course, I'd fail to do all of those all of the time, but it's a nice target. Personally, I don't like the idea of imposing more structural changes to modify our behavoir. As the briliant George Stigler once said, "There is nothing admirable about an involuntary saint."
Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
At the risk of providing the poo for flinging
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:52pm.I'd say that Norm and Rob can handle their own conversation and moderate themselves as I've seen them do numerous times.
The other post looks like it comes from the docents mail, which is nothing less than allowing the rest of us in on what could be private conversation.
Rob and I don't agree at all times, but this is nothing short of a witch hunt. Consider the source.
Yes....I WAS being nice.
Disruption
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 2:54pm.In the Course of Events
No!
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:10pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
There's bad blood between
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:15pm.Now take a little while to find your way in here
Now take a little while to make your story clear.
Nick Drake
Based on his comment...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:16pm....that you quoted above? What exactly do you find objectionable about it?
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Out of Control
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 1:13am.The Orwellian nature of your comments astounds me, Chris. I disagree with you that Rob is out of control. Do you really think he is? Thanks for your opinion, but just because Rob is passionate and vocal about his opinions, doesn't mean he is out of control.
Whether or not you are in control is another matter entirely. You seem unable to restrain yourself from commentary that is degrading and debasing and harmful to community discussion and understanding. Please try living up to the OlyBlog ideal of respectful dialogue. Be a good sport.
One major diference between those two
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 1:21am.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
Another difference is one
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 8:50am.Now take a little while to find your way in here
Now take a little while to make your story clear.
Nick Drake
It is always easier...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 9:16am....to project malicious intent. But why not put just a little more effort into the thought process and observe that OlyBlog has a code of conduct that applies to all (including docents) that would preclude such antisocial behavior? And then, take a little more time to remember that we've only ever deleted porn and nazis from the site (you've actually deleted more content than I ever have). It's easy, and I would argue unfounded, to use fear as a platform from which to accuse others. Please be careful not to do so.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Seems to me, that clicking on "recent posts"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 3:58pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
tracker
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 4:02pm.I support Rob and the docent model
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 7:24am.It's imperfect, but it works to some degree.
Even though I posted to get the tracker fixed, Stevenl's view and the acrimony that develops when the tracker works convinces me that the tracker should be turned off.
I guess I should respond?
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 4:17pm.I'm confused as to why you really post here. What's the point?
Has anyone considered adding an "Ignore" feature to Olyblog
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 5:14pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
I missed the "get to work" part
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:17am.I was at home actually, not at work.
Rob felt the need to call me on something that the initial poster seemed to ask. Tempers flare on the blog, I'm over it, hope Rob is too.
I think the docent thing needs to be tossed. I think the separation of "normal blogger" from "docent" is no different than "olycop" trying to give his thoughts and being labeled the "spokesman" for his agency. I don't feel it so much with most of the docents, but it's been apparent with Rick for awhile, and it's becoming more apparent with Rob. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but attitudes seem to change with the title.
I think you're right
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 9:00am.I think the separation of "normal blogger" from "docent" is no different than "olycop" trying to give his thoughts and being labeled the "spokesman" for his agency.
I think you're right on this on several levels. I think it does change one's approach to the blog (it becomes something you try to make work instead of something that works for you). I think it also changes the way people react to what one writes (personal disagreements seem to take on the level of institutional condemnation). In the end a position like docent/moderator/editor demands the person take on the mantle of conservator, a position almost intrinsically at odds with change.
I stand by my assertion that with the creation of content these problems become minimized. I would really like to see some of the people who spend a lot of time in the comments branch out and help us out with some new content.
"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe
This subject has come up in the past...
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 9:54am.When Aaron Mason decided to use Olyblog as a media to bemoan his disappointment in the community because of the protests (still not sure why he didn't use The Olympian with their huge circulation and readership), I took him to task, saying that if The Olympian didn't allow such inflamatory rhetoric in their comments it wouldn't fan the flames so much in the community.
Now, unless Aaron and The Olympian would like to say that no one reads their product, to deny their impact is intellectually dishonest.
Aaron went on to say that when he is not working for The Olympian and commenting as part of The Olympian, he is just another citizen. Of course, that is why, when I got into a confrontation with The Olympian over issues as a citizen, my employer was brought into the issue. The pendulum swings one way?
I like JT, but when you use the moniker "Olycop" you sort of draw attention to the fact that you are commenting as a law enforcement officer. I think he figured that out.
I refrain from much comment on children's issues, other than my support of taking care of kids, because I could easily OR conveniently be misunderstood and my personal opinion be laid back on my employer (of course, it wouldn't be the first time that someone didn't like my politics and tried to make it an issue of employment). I understand that some stuff just follows me, regardless of if it should or not.
As I stated earlier, Rob has the same right to free speech as is claimed by the author of this blog. Within that free speech, Rob has the right to be wrong at times, and correct at times. If the complaintant was part of the conversation, I'd understand, but Rob and Norm appear to work things out. I have not yet seen a wall built down the middle of The Broho. I would add that if that conversation too place on a bar stool, as opposed to a blog, it would have been dismissed before the night was over.
This entire issue, in my opinion, comes back to someone appears to have a resentment and keeps coming back for more.
Larry,
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 10:19am.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
I think we should all expect more of each other
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 10:30am.Your insistance on tossing out "Breck Girl" comments after being asked to pass on those kind of characterizations, is far beneath what I expect of my fellow bloggers. You can't ask for anything if you are unable to set a higher standard yourself.
Besides, Rob and Norm understand eachother. And if Norm had a problem with anything Rob said, he'd certainly say so. And if he said so, Rob would certainly respond.
Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
As I pointed out to MH...
Submitted by Rick on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 10:31am...."expecting more" is a convenient arrangement if all you want to do is persecute someone you don't agree with. It's called a double standard. We don't allow that here. Rob works extra hard for this blog, and if anything, he should get a pass every once in a while. Please focus on content and stop the obsessing over "leadership." This is no one's job, you're not our customer, and if you don't like it, than stop carping and do something constructive. This is an experiment in whether we can take control over our media consumption. Right now, all you're doing is gumming up the works.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Tschida
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 10:41am.Well.....I was taught that my expectations are a direct correlation to my level of disappointment. You might want to consider this.
I guess you are saying that leaders should be held more accountable for their actions and "mistakes" than others. With that thought in mind, we could have one hell of a conversation about the "mistakes" made in getting us into Iraq, but I digress.
Let me be a bit more direct, so that you don't misunderstand where I'm coming from. I think you just like to bitch about things on Olyblog.
Was I a bit more clear that time?
Note to docents and other witnesses: I violated my own pact with myself on another blog, but like Jim Carrey in "The Mask", sometimes I "just can't help myself".
Somebody stop me!
Larry,
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:26am.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
The whole blog community just doesn't get it, huh?
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 12:57pm.Don't mistake my sarcasm. I'm not being nice. I'm finding very few reasons to be nice to people that seem set upon making Olyblog the focus of their complaints.
If you don't want a hair cut, stay away from the barber.
There seems to be a group of posters, you being one, that are trying to prove some point with Olyblog that masquerades as "freedom of speech". In my humble opinion, the docents are being entirely too nice about the entire issue. After all, this IS private domain (considering that someone pays for the website and maintenence and doesn't charge a fee).
You can deny as you wish, but I've witnessed that you love to stir the bee's nest and then complain when you get stung by a pissed off bee.
Meanwhile, I'm not going to play anymore, as it appears to feed right into what you are seeking. I think my answers are clear enough. Therefore, any further rhetorical questioning on your part is pretty much confirming my opinion.
Just a suggestion. SondraK.com loves the kind of communication you seek. Give it a try.
Yeah,
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 4:49pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
what v. how
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 2:37pm.It's not so much what you post about, it's how you go about it. Your tone and demeanor is passive/aggressive bordering on aggressive. You seem hostile Chris.
You might also want to re-think your quote, because people on the left might be offended by it. Not the greatest way to bridge gaps in communication and understanding now is it?
I hope you have fun at your OMUG event tonight.
"Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed. Always aim at purifying your thoughts and everything will be well."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Hostile Rob?
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 4:53pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
WHATEVER!!!
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 5:11pm.Nobody here has or will ever discriminate against you because of your politics. We have and will only ever say things to you about how you choose to express disagreement with others. My bias is against your actions, not your politics. If you just don't believe me, then I don't know what to do about that. I really don't. I wish that we could move on from this, but for some reason, you won't let it die. What's up? What exactly makes you feel the way you do about OlyBlog?
It's deja vous all over again...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 5:32pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
Good Grief Charlie Brown
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 5:47pm.Soon as you start holding people to the same level of expectation, I will stop pointing out that you should not be a docent. You think it is permissible to tell people how to post what they have to say, all while telling someone to "get back to work" and then going on to explain how they should spend their money as YOU see fit. If I did something even remotely as rude, you would be in a fit. But you have in the past ignored this, and surely you will do it again now. You will say you get along with Norm and make other justifications and excuses all while not changing your behavior. I like OlyBlog. I have said that before. I will say it again. Why do you see your behavior as me complaining about Olyblog? You are not Olyblog in and of itself. What part of that do you refuse to understand? Here is what I find fairly humorous, you claim that you are biased against my actions, as though you do not have a predisposistion against what I have to say as a conservative. That is funny!
P.S. That last post, to "Rob" was to Rob Whitlock. Not Mr. Richards. Perhaps there was a bit of confusion. I should have been clearer.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
What's funny is you complaining to anyone about
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 6:11pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
You are so good!
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 8:29pm.don't forget to breathe
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 6:20pm.word
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 6:46pm.I agree, no docents.
I think I'll go to the Broho and complain that they are selling
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 6:15pm.alcohol.
That should go over well.
They'd be discriminating against me because I'm an alcoholic.
Just to be clear
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 6:52pm.Rob, and Rick, both do a great job as docents. They are both kind people, and I enjoy talking with them both greatly. I don't like the role I guess. I just want to make sure that Rob and Rick, and the other docents as well, realize that I'm not trying to be a jerk here.
and with that I'm done with the mushy, sappy crap. I don't care what day it is.
I think Emmett should be
Submitted by wilson on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 7:13pm.ok, well my vote is "no"
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 7:33pm.I'm not into the whole idea of OlyBlog docents (look up the meaning of the word wilson), but I don't think Emmett should be "fired".
I'm thinking it's a joke
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 7:42pm.Yes it was a joke....
Submitted by wilson on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 7:45pm.OK, what a dry...
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 7:49pm....sense of humor.
Glad it was not a mean-spirited comment & actually levity--
--too bad I missed the joke.
in every joke
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Thu, 02/14/2008 - 11:07pm.There is a grain of truth. Or at least honesty.
I think Wilson is out to get me.
I hope I am as successful in
Submitted by wilson on Fri, 02/15/2008 - 8:13am.