Don't Forget to Vote!

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Don't Forget to Vote!

Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 4:41pm.

Do not forget to vote. This is an important election with some really great canditates and issues. Your vote will make a difference in our community!

Friends don't let friends forget to vote.

Just do it.

It's the ballot box, stupid.

The early voter gets the sticker.

Vote early, vote often! (... ... ...Doh!)

Phil Owen's blog
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You forgot the important part.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 5:03pm.

Vote for Meta Hogan for Mayor of Olympia! In fact, vote out ALL incumbents. And NO on the prison labor initiative and the Eyman thing also.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Vote Mah,

Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 3:31pm.

Experiance counts. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

You can't spell experience

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 5:45pm.

Doug Mah couldn't carry Meta Hogan's experience in a suitcase.

Wow you caught a typo, You must be so proud.

Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 7:35pm.

Unless I am mistaken Meta has not been elected to anything. She work(ed) for Bread and Roses, and served on some forums. So what do you base your opinion on that is tangible, like having been elected to the city council? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

I thought it was clever.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 9:05pm.

I can get to the answer to your question by posing a couple of other questions. What do I want in a leader?and What experience does it take to be on the city council?

Sit in a chair, be on time to meetings, be nice to people you don't really like, listen, learn, and vote with a balance of your conscience and the will of the people in mind.

The first three, Mr. Mah has proven himself capable of. In fact, he said, "Nice to see you." to me once last February or March, and I know nothing could have been further from the truth.

I have witnessed on many occasions Meta sitting in chairs and have also never known her to be late for meetings or appointments. Meta is also open minded and has many times taken the time to be there for people who no one else would give a chance to.

The last three are the ones that are important to me. Last fall, Doug Mah sat in his chair and listened to testimony from hundreds of citizens and went directly against their will. Doug Mah banged his drums and created a divide in our city that will take years to fix. Doug Mah may have time spent on the council, but he does not have what it takes to be a leader.

Meta Hogan proves herself every time she goes to a meeting of one of the many boards and committees she sits on. She proves that good ideas can be blind to our differences and that we can work together to make Olympia a better place without getting caught up in finger pointing and double talk. And that's why I'm voting for Meta.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Too Funny

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:04pm.

I remember her leaving a candidate forum early. Guess that doesn't matter.

Hey Jerk,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 11:31pm.

You remember her explaining why she left early also don't you? If you are shallow enough to base your entire opinion of a person on one thing as trivial and trifling as that, then fine, but remember, you reap what you sow.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Let's keep it civil

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 6:39am.

Shall we?

When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow

Rob, so much for your notion of leadership, eh?

Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 10:25am.

It doesn't count because you like Meta. However her behavior doesn't speak well for leadership does it? To make it crystal clear it was a candidate forum. If that is too much to handle, how will she work when she is 'leading' the city? Is she going to just walk out when ever it gets too difficult? What can we expect from her? Why should people not vote on her past behaior? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

She left a "forum"

Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 10:30am.

early because only about five people showed up. Anyone there had a chance to talk to her. If that's the only comment you have about Rob's endorsement, Meta still looks pretty darn good.

Rob endorses her because she is his friend.

Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 11:28am.

Remember Rob is supposed to be some sort of anarchist or some such thing. By Rob endorsing her it is reason enough to vote for her opponent, even if that happens to be a house plant. Beyond that, she has offered no demonstrations of leadership; even on her own site she doesn't offer such anecdotal information. On her site she is listing issues like "support local business" What does that actually mean? Does that mean working to make Olympia a good fit for increased port activity, including the ARMY and Air Force use of Olympia's port? She says she wants to increase parking. How? At what cost and to whom? Widen sidewalks? Is this an issue that someone runs on? What will she do to support things like choice in education? Tax relief? Panhandling? Vandalism? There is a lot more to not supporting the likes of Meta Hogan than just she left a forum. Her doing so, is only a demonstration of her character. She should have stayed. She should have stayed even if there was only one person who showed up. Apparently those five were not worth staying for. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

and...

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 11:33am.

what does Doug's website say?

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Tsch...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 9:54pm.

Like you nevir [sic] anyone.

What makes you think something so foolish?

Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 10:24am.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

Here's how I voted...

Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 5:50pm.

Meta (Obviously!)

Jean Marie Thomas (difficult decision, Rhenda is very likeable, and a strong environmentalist; but Jean Marie has the record and the right views on social justice issues)

Matthew Green (Miss seeing him on council. There's very little he says or does that I disagree with.)

Barner and Pilkey, because the Port badly needs some new ideas.

No on inmate labor and Eyman initiative, etc.

The Canaanite's Call

Prison Labor

Submitted by nich on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 6:53pm.

What is the rush to vote no on prison labor? Aren't people less likely to reoffend when they have useful skills to survive on their own once they're out? A friend sent me this:

Hello. I just wanted to ask you to consider voting Yes on Prop 8212, which will reinstate inmate labor under state contract with private companies. In addition to having inmates able to pay their legal fines, victim compensation, room and board, and child support, if applicable, it also would help keep inmates busy in what is referred to as "positive" programming. Another issue aside from keeping inmates busy and paying their debts to society is that it allows them to purchase some items of food, a pillow, personal hygiene items, etc. that would help eliminate some of the assaults caused by the culture of scarcity. An intangible benefit mentioned in the article is rehabilitation, which is very important. Some say it does not matter if an inmate is not eligible to be released for a long time or never, but it does matter because it affords inmates the ability to redirect their lives into a positive direction. Inmates are on long waiting lists for jobs because there are only a few jobs for the thousands behind bars. Please consider voting Yes on Prop 8212.

Some people

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 6:58pm.

Are against work.. at all possible costs..

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

The prison labor industry is

Submitted by Phil Owen on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 7:16pm.

The prison labor industry is a mega-industry in the United States. Prison workers are exploitable in a way that most others in the general public (undocumented immigrants being the exception) are not. And it is extraordinarily risky to build an entire industrial-complex that profits from people being incarcerated.

The Canaanite's Call

nm

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 9:03pm.

For the love of Odin!!

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 9:04pm.

n/m

Thor's Hammer!!

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 10:57am.

I thought we were following an Asgardian theme here.

'Caus that is what they are doing...

Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 7:41pm.

The prisoners are building an entire industrial complex. That makes sense, and is totally plausible. No way would someone want say union labor doing that sort of thing. No way would someone want qualified certified licensed and bonded people working around that. Who needs folks with actual skills to do labor? It is cheaper to use slave —oop— prison labor. Those poor souls who rob, cheat, steal, kill, rape, molest, assault, and what have you, should be limited to cable television, weight rooms, and libraries. They should not have to work, at anything difficult, like picking up trash on the highway. Even that is soooo dangerous. C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

I think you should not drive-by our blog.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 7:31pm.

This bill would be great if it did all of the things that our friend nich's friend claims it does. The fact is, not to mention it being written by four senators who receive scarier money than Doug Mah, that this provides no protections to the inmates as workers, and that the state directly benefits (read:profits) off the deals with third parties. The line about scarcity is just flat out false. The way this law is written leaves the door open for corruption. We should vote this down and go back to the drawing board.

“The main question tonight is not what motive inspired the law, but what it will be possible for men of bad motive to do with the law once it has been placed in their hands as an instrument.” - Benjamin R. Tucker

I'm voting yes on it

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 7:41pm.

Hopefully it's used well, and if it isn't then some oversight will need to be setup, but at this point I think it's a good idea. Inmates don't need protection as workers (they are already incarcerated) and putting some extra money into the state bank account sounds good to me. Maybe part of it could be put toward some social programs. Either way, I'd much rather inmates were working, and making the state some money, than lifting weights and watching cable.

Have you read it?

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 7:51pm.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Great resource for folksYes,

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:38pm.

Great resource for folks

Yes, I've read it. It was boring.

Inmates working > inmates sitting around brewing

Inmates making money for the state > the state constantly paying for these convicts

Inmates making a little money for themselves mean that there's a possibility that restitution will end up being made.

I don't think private jobs will be affected negatively, and if they are then the law needs to be changed. Private jobs being affected is the only negative impact that I feel is important at this time. Any other questions?

I really like...

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 9:36pm.

Your GreaterThan | LessThan arguments.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Thanks

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 10:59am.

Scarcity

Submitted by nich on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:10pm.

Bob, I don't understand how the idea of scarcity in prison is false. They have to buy their own shit. If someone outside isn't sending them money, I can see how violence might be used as an alternate currency.

http://www.doc.wa.gov/family/offenderlife/store.asp
http://www.doc.wa.gov/family/offenderlife/offendertrustaccount.asp

I don't know

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:17pm.

I know people in prison. If there's a prison in the PNW, I know somebody who's been there. I talk to them about prison, what it's like, how life is there. It sucks for sure, but never once has someone mentioned having to fight for soap and TP. In fact I've never heard that inmates have to buy their own hygiene supplies, I think that wrong. I imagine that all of their hygiene needs are met, and if they want luxury items, like a fancy razor or that nice strawberry scented shampoo that their cellmate likes, then they can buy it at the store.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Myes...

Submitted by nich on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:24pm.

May be. It's certainly not made clear from the DOC website what's provided.

Nich Is Right

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:19pm.

I would send money on a weekly basis to my daughters account at the WA Corrections Center for Women so she could buy shampoo, deodorant, toothpaste, etc. They could also buy snacks, movies, electronic items and makeup but these were luxury items and cost a lot of money.

My daughter's things were constantly being stolen by her roomate, a woman who was in for life for murder. My daughter was so afraid of her, she never said anything to anybody about this woman stealing her things out of fear she'd wake up assaulted or dead.

I also personally witnessed another woman who had been beaten to a pulp with a bookshelf because she "lifted" a bottle of shampoo from her roommate. Her eyes were swollen shut for several weeks, her entire body was bruised and she had various cuts & scrapes.

My daughter told me it was not uncommon for inmates to be in weekly scraps over items others had purchased with funds from the outside only to have them stolen by those who dont get any money from friends or family on the outside.

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Purdy is a bad place

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:49pm.

I've heard some nightmare stories about it all around. I'm sorry your daughter had that experience, that sound really frightening.

The intrusive thought that I keep having is this: Many people who are convicted of crimes and sent to prison are abandoned by the outside world. Either that or they don't know anybody with money to spare. If it is true that inmates MUST purchase their hygiene supplies, then it also true that some inmates simply go without soap and toothpaste and razors and toilet paper. I don't believe that for a second.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

They Do Go Without

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 9:04am.

shampoo, toothpaste & razors unless they can purchase them from the prison store. Toilet paper & a small generic bar of soap like you find in hotels was supplied to them. If they don't have anybody putting money on their books, they do without shampoo, toothpaste & razors. The razors must be used under the watchful eyes of the guards and turned in when the shower was complete. When they wanted to shave again, they had to be able to purchase another razor and turn it in when that shower was over.

Personal hygiene wasn't a priority at Purdy. Those lucky enough to get a job there, like my daughter who worked in the kitchen, received .55 cents an hour. If you didn't have a job there and nobody to put money on your books, you did without. My daughter tells me there were many fights between inmates because some had hygiene products and others didn't.

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Well, that's just stupid.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 9:10am.

Regardless of that though, we should vote no on the prison work bill. The way it's written doesn't protect the workers at all, and yes Norm, I think they do deserve protection. They are human beings.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

You and I disagree

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 10:58am.

and I'm ok with that.

You don't think they're human beings?!

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 11:05am.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

No Rob

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 11:12am.

I think they are empty shells, husks if you will, for the CLEARLY evil aliens to invade. These were trapped here eons ago, inside of volcanoes, just waiting for human hosts. Didn't you watch the documentary a few months ago? I think it was done by Tom Cruise or John Travolta.

I knew it.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 11:14am.

They're like the pod people from the The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Seriously

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 12:34pm.

I've been watching WAY too much southpark lately.

Voted

Submitted by DJW on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 8:43pm.

Mah Strub Ottavelli(sp) Yes on Inmate Labor

Complexes..

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Mon, 10/29/2007 - 9:20pm.

...of buildings, filled with lots of informed people I happen to know, also did the same.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

key questions

Submitted by rebecca on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 5:29pm.

I have some questions about this, maybe you guys can help. If this law passes: 1) Would prisoners have the option of whether they want a job or perfer not to have a job or would this be a compulsory labor situation? 2) If they have an option to take the job or not, would they be able to quit if at any point they felt uncomfortable with the working situation? 3) Would prisoners recieve monatory compensation for whatever work they perform under these contracts? Thanks.

I did a little research

Submitted by rebecca on Tue, 10/30/2007 - 10:01pm.

It looks like it would probably be voluntary, based on the way the current laws are. I don't see constitutional protection for this, so it might be up to the legislature's discretion. I may look into more later. If it is voluntary, then they have the option of not participating if they don't like the program --- which does count for something. I deffinately don't think they should be forced to work in the private sector under the direct management of private sector supervisors. It also appears that prisoners are compensated for their work. Presumably those working under the new programs would be subject to similar regulations in terms of their earnings as under the current programs. The exceptions seems to be the work release program. I hope to post more later. Good-night guys!

Does it make sense...

Submitted by Rick on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 7:26am.

...to build an incentive for business into our prison system, if what we really want is less people in the system, not more? I think this is the real danger of this type of legislation.

Also, has anyone pondered the question of why it got into our State Constitution that prisoners could not be used as private labor? Maybe those folks new something about the abuse of people with few rights.

Oh, and maybe it had something to do with this.

More and more, I'm thinking

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 10/31/2007 - 7:50am.

More and more, I'm thinking of those situations where a Country Deputy picks someone up for littering or vagrancy, and after a night or weekend in the poky the judge (whose brother-in-law runs a "camp") sentences him to thirty days on the potato farm.

Damn the United States! I wish I may never hear of the United States again!
Philip Nolan, the man without a country

Obviously it needs some

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 4:39pm.

Obviously it needs some oversight, I'm not sure anyone would argue that.

Maybe they can

Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 4:42pm.

assemble Tasers. That would be funny, because they would rig them to zap the shooter or to squirt mayo.

yeeah

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 11/01/2007 - 4:50pm.

inmates assembling tasers, great idea.

Wow

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 11:23am.

The only reason not to vote for Meta given so far is that she left an empty forum early. That's it. Her experience was challenged, I posted about her experience and no one challenged it further. I mean, really, let's talk about issues. Let me show why Meta is better than Doug on every single issue. You don't want to talk about that because you're just so stuck in being anti-something that your mind is closed like a steel trap. I welcome a real discussion about the two candidates, but save your petty baseless accusations for the Olympian comments.

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." -Arundhati Roy

Rob

Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 12:29pm.

I understand, and I'm behind you, but you gotta drop it. Nobody is going to win. You and I, and lots of other folks, know that Meta is a great candidate, but we can't convince everyone, and some folks are just going to lower themselves to the mud slinging level. Let it go. :)

Thank you Norm

Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 11/02/2007 - 2:36pm.

Consider it dropped.

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