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Poster Calendar

July

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Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 12/11/2007 - 9:31pm.

Looks like a great place to build, huh?

Your children can play at the superfund site next door after they build the Children's Museum on it.

The mayor when it's built (not Mah, he'll have abandoned his post to run for state senate by then) will sit about where that island is.

Looks like this site is a regular quack magnet.

»

Quite awhile ago

here in OlyBlog, when I was complaining about the status quo mindset of Olympia politicians and their choice of a City Hall site (even the Olympian editorial thought it was a poor idea), especially given the threat of global warming, Crenshaw had a brilliant suggestion. Take the Kalakala, dock it in Swantown, retrofit it, and make it the new City Hall. That will solve several problems at once.
»

I can imagine a beautiful city hall there...

...if they clean it up and this sea level rise-thingy gets worked out.
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Dirt dwellers are DOOMED!!

HAHAHAHA!!!  Doomed I say, doomed!  Those of us on the water shall rise up and destroy you all!  Soon we will not have our views of the shore ruined by housing developments, bridges and other useless impediments! HAHAHA!!!  Fear the ocean I say, FEAR THE OCEAN!

Sorry, I was feeling goofy.

Lousy place for a city hall.  Personally I think they should meet in tents.  Without heaters.  In the winter.  See what kind of damage they could do then.  *insert evil laugh again* 

 

»

REALLY NOW

A number of towns and homes flooded in the past storm (when the pic were taken I am guessing). Does that mean they are all bad places or does it mean that it was a crazy storm? That area is also lower then grade...meaning it will collect water . I like how you will bend facts so that things look your way. nice But I am Just Another Voice
»

Bend the Facts?

What to you mean by "bend the facts." specifics please.
»

Crazy storms are becoming more common.

Those crazy radical trouble makers at the World Bank have noted it here.

The bottom line on all development is that development should be cautious and take into account "crazy storms."

I remember looking at all the high water in the 1996 Chehalis flood and then watching as all the building - walmart, home depot, walgreens, etc - put infrastructure in the very area that could easily be predicted for flooding and shaking my head.  And it's not just as dumb as putting infrastructure in harm's way, it also entails destruction of ecologically significant wetlands that mitigate flooding in other areas.  

So, when you look at the puddles and duckies, it's just good sense to take rising sea level into account, maybe a resulting rising water table, and the increasing incidence of crazy storms. 

I think good civic planning should take these things into account. 

»

Standing Water

So there's some standing water.  Nothing a little engineering couldn't fix.  Molehill meet mountain.
»

Yeah....raise the surface where the water collects

and then everyone around that area, at a lower elevation will flood.

The good old American system of screw your partner

»

Is that what I said?  No. 

Is that what I said?  No.  Thanks for the drive-by.
»

Doug's Quote

From Council OKs purchase of former Safeway site

...Doug Mah, who is a councilman and the incoming mayor, changed his stance and said he supports putting City Hall at the Safeway site.

Previously, he had been a staunch supporter of putting the building on the Port of Olympia property on East Bay. Hall and the council also had previously preferred that plan.

"I still believe that the port property represents the best possible synergy" because City Hall would be next to a planned Hands On Children's Museum, LOTT headquarters/education center and public plaza. But "I think moving ahead with a City Hall project is more important," he said.

Exactly the type of compromise and quick decision-making I want in a council member.

 

»

I like Doug and all...

but the last time I knew, "compromise and quick decision making" was called "flip-flopping", at least in the 2004 General Election.

»

Call it what you'd like. 

Call it what you'd like.  What's your point?  I'm asking because I'm not sure what you are saying.  Doug may have flipped (to the Safeway site) but he hasn't flopped (back to the port site).

Had Doug stood firm on the port site he'd be getting a LOTT of crap, too.

»

Nobody capitulates like Doug Mah.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my posting. With just a little bit of sea level rise that lot will look like that all the time. We, as a species really, need to stop thinking that we can hold back forces of nature. It has never worked. Especially with water. Water finds a way. You do harm to the future of our community by advocating that we engineer our way out of sea level rise.

I want to repeat something that nobody seems to get. The ocean isn't our only problem, so is groundwater. Sea wall or no sea wall, ground water level is going to rise also, and that will affect areas like the port peninsula also. Can we engineer a solution to water coming up from the ground?

»

You do harm to the future...

You do harm to the future... is based on opinion, not fact.  You're free to project the future but the pay isn't all that great.  What if we could actually make it better by spending the time and effort thinking through a long-term solution?  I'm a realist with a hint of optimism, oh well.

Can we engineer a solution?  We had better figure it out one way or another.  I don't think the answer is to abandon land because of its potential in the future.  Not unless we are 100% certain that devastation in inevitable.  I'm not blind here.  I understand what's at stake.

You make it sound like capitulating is a bad thing here.  He made clear his position but in the interest of progress he changed his mind.  It's not like we're talking about a vote on the 2nd amendment.  It's CITY HALL!  Me thinks your personal dislike for Doug Mah is clouding your ability to recognize the positive in it all.  I commend Doug for not playing politics and moving forward.

»

It's like not insuring your house...

No one has suggested abandonment. But a smart person wouldn't build there until a concrete plan for sea rise was in the works. That would just be stupid. Like strapping several million dollars to a weather balloon and hoping the wind doesn't blow too hard.

The Canaanite's Call

EDIT:  Maybe I was wrong.  Rob suggests abandonment below.  The rest of what I said still holds water, though. ;) 

»

"concrete plan"

Good one.
»

The sky is falling... the sky is falling...

C

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

wow,

if that's your response to conversations about climate change then please stay off of my threads on the topic. I want to have conversations now that will save lives and money in the future. This is not a fantasy, the climate is changing and sea level is rising, whether we want to accept it or not.
»

Maybe it is. Seems there is proof.

Is it man made? Is the world going somewhere and wondering why it is in a handbasket? No. Was your post alarmist? Over wrought? What do you think? C.

One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.

Thomas Sowell

»

Are you here to tell Rob what he should or shouldn't

be alarmed about? If so, it sure seems like you can find a better and more effective way to do that rather than just alienating him.
»

The CONSERVATIVE approach

to the issue of "man made" or not is to assume that it IS man-made and seek to control such.  If you find out you're wrong, you've lost little.  If you find out you're right, you've won gigantically.

I think I once heard a Christian say something like "If God doesn't exist I have little to lose by believing in Him.  If he DOES exist, I have MUCH to lose by NOT BELIEVING in Him."

I'd say the conservative approach to "man made global warming" would be a similar application.

»

Honesty

I don't know Doug Mah personally so I can't have a personal dislike of him. I suppose you could say I have a professional dislike of him, but that doesn't capture it either. Without going too far into it, I just don't think he makes decisions with everyone in mind, especially the people directly affected by his decisions. In my mind, that makes him a terrible leader and not worthy of public office.

The problem I see is this: It's not going to be land soon. It wasn't land when we found it, we turned it into land. The sea is taking it back. I'm not willing to entertain the idea that we have to engineer a solution because we just have to, or because we have to beat nature. Let nature take it's course.

There is a potentially devastating lose/lose/lose scenario in building a sea wall or other engineering project. For one, it will cost lots of money to build, for two, it could fail and kill lots of people, and three, it will cost us a lot to rebuild from that point.

I think planning for a future without the port property is a wise idea. Just today a research group announced that the arctic is likely to have an iceless summer in as little as five years. That water has to go somewhere. I'm just asking people to be realistic. We couldn't engineer our way out of a paper bag in five years.

»

"Abandonment"? Is that what I was suggesting?

You make it sound so dirty and cowardly or something. Maybe it's just my French side coming out again, but I'm just trying to get people to apply some reason to this. I think it's reasonable to start planning our future around the science. Science says: within 5 years the arctic will have iceless summers, where's that water going to go? Can we get something built fast enough? No. Then what do we do instead?

Throw some ideas on the table please, because saying that I'm trying to irresponsibly "abandon" the port property, without providing an alternative solution isn't getting us anywhere here.

»

Buy a boat

and of course....

 

Seriously, they need to plan for rising water.  I like the Safeway site, or better still tear down the old and build a new one there on high ground. 

»

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