|
|
|||
|
Navigation User login Who's online There are currently 11 users and 47 guests online.
Online users
Support OlyBlog OlyBlog is run by volunteers who care about Olympia. If you like what we're doing, make a donation: OlyBlog is powered by:
Who's new
Upcoming events
 Favorite Olympia Blogs Bread and Roses of Olympia The Canaanite's Call Clubside Breakfast Time decorabilia Dark Woods Casino Party E. Side Neighborhood Assoc. Flummel, Flummer, Flummo In the Course of Events John G Bell's Blog Jon's Random Acts of Geekery judimendoza Last Word Blog Nafblog No Talking Heads Olympia Dumpster Divers Olympia Time One Pissed-Off Veteran Papa November Peregrinate Pirate Papa Plan B Olympia The Raccoon Arts Collective The Rambling Taoist Trees and Water Word on the Street What This Town Needs Yelley's Photo Blog Oly Public Bloglines  |
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 12/18/2007 - 11:07pm.
On a recent thread there was a conversation about the use of a certain in term in reference to what another blogger had posted. I don't want this thread to turn into a finger-pointing fest, but I want to talk about how we relate with and react to one another here.
» If I post something it typically means that I've put a lot of thought into it or feel very deeply about what I'm saying. I know that when I read criticisms of my opinions that carry an overtly argumentative tone, or if I feel like I'm being taken way out of context with no regard toward what I'm actually saying, or just flat our called names, it flips a switch in my brain that makes my synapses start firing in a different way. I immediately stop really looking for any meaning in what I'm reading and immediately start looking for things to attack. I think a solution to this is for all of us to commit to not using inflammatory language with one another. If it does happen, we have to try to bring it up with the other person in a non-threatening way. If I say, "Don't talk to me like that," there is an implied consequence and it will immediately put the other person on the defensive, or perhaps on the attack. If instead we ask the other person to explain what they mean by that, it gives them the opportunity to withdraw, or clarify their point using softer language. The issue of humor brought up as well. There was some fairly offensive, though good natured humor used on a thread recently. We have to be careful not to post offensive comments, even in joke form, because it has an effect on the comfort level of the blog for many people. Also, in my opinion, if we feel the need to use sarcasm we should make it abundantly clear that it is sarcasm and not serious. I've seen some threads get fairly heated because of misunderstandings around humor. That's my two cents, what are yours?
|
OlyBlog.net OlyBlog is devoted to hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. Contributors to OlyBlog are citizen journalists who care about their community and are tired of corporate media. If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our Social Contract. You should also look at our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here. Olyblogger of the Month: Docents are fellow citizen journalists who volunteer to be at your service in order to help with any blog-related issues. They are: Rob RichardsInterests: community building; participatory art, democracy and economics; local politics; citizen journalism. emmettoconnell Interests: City Council, developing a local issues forum. enpen Interests: OlyBlog calendar, Oly street art, local artist interviews, his family, poetry and stuff. Robert Whitlock Interests: peace, justice, nature, nonviolence, media, environment Rick Interests: citizen journalism, hyperlocal media, the knowledge commons. Docent email list Latest Classified Ads Books & Collections ›Blog Local Blog Skool 
|
|
|
OlyBlog is a site for news and discussion about Olympia, Washington. |
|||
It's nice to express emotions as emotions
Submitted by micah on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 1:22am.Along the same vein of thought as what you're writing, Rob: teachers often tell fighting children to start sentences off with "I feel..." while not accusing the other child of anything. It's a useful strategy for adults, too, and while sometimes I think it feels corny, it's a good way to work through emotions. It's important to express those emotions, after all, and once they are expressed, it makes rational discussion a lot easier.
Sarcasm is tricky in writing
Submitted by M Kretzler on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 6:53pm.I think it's frankly about politics.
Submitted by Mike on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 7:40am.and I read here as the right wing folks complain that they are outnumbered, that their voices are not respected here and I reflect on how arrogant and partisan that is since this country has lurched so far to the right in the past 40 years.
The politics of subterfuge, sense of entitlement, and cronyism that comes along with "free market capitalism" has been effective on a campaign level. The campaigns of personal destruction (Max Cleland? Kerry? Clinton? Wellstone?) have allowed the republicans to set national policy for several decades now. It may be that the 50% of the electorate who is really not sure what the public policy differences are between George Bush and Dennis Kucinish, but can be manipulated by unethical, dishonest election campaigns that speak in dog language about the danger of the armed black man or the sanctity of unborn life and demonization of people whose politics or religion are not in line with a Walmart World, are starting to realize that a change in the political direction of this country is long overdue.
It remains to be seen if the votes as they counted by the corporate vote-counting machines will ever accurately reflect the will of the voters and send this country in a different, and possibly better direction, but as the right-wing true believers come to grips with that possibility, it is easier to engage in rhetorical claptrap than to recognize and accept the failings of their political machine that has had a death grip on this country (and extended that deathly grip around the planet) for the past 40 years. Claptrap, indeed.
Mike,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 11:33am.Rob,
Submitted by Tschida on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 11:53am.That is exactly what Mike is doing in this comment. He is expressing his free open and honest (to him anyway) opinion through the communication medium of this blog. It is as you say vital for the community to thrive.
He clearly has some strongly held beliefs, about the nature of this nation, our community, and stated these beliefs in an editorial opinion. How does it help you might ask? It states plainly where he stands on 'right wing true believers', so everyone knows what he thinks of people on the other end of the political spectrum. I am glad he said what he means. I do not find it offensive, though perhaps that is how he intended it.
Lastly I would like to point out that journalism covers politics, and this is a place where people enjoy many topics including hyperlocal, local, county, state and national politics and the discussions, debates, and arguments that can surround these issues.
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Now I figure I must be wrong
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 8:56am.is Tschida is rising to my defense?
But as with the gun discussion, there is always common ground. I agree with gun rights even though I won't own one or have one in my house.
And I guess that Tschida and I actually share some common ground on the value of saying what you truly believe. Style and choice of words is always open to discussion, but tamping down what you believe to get along does not strike me as effective, but it is polite. Style and choice of words are always open to moderation, but moderating and compromising important principles for the purpose of community-building create a community of the lowest common denominator - the non-offensive, non-controversial discussion.
How's the weather? (no global warming, just galoshes level discussion) How 'bout them Seahawks? How do you like your latte? Love you, brother! Discussion and interaction on a level that would fit on a bumpersticker and that your mother would find pleasing.
I thought that Rob's post had an element of question about the process here and was not simply a plea for all of us to be less authentic in the interest of community. Maybe I misunderstood the original posting?
I think we can have a polite and meaningful authentic discussion and that we can truly debate important issues, report important stories, and back our discussion and reporting with facts - references to validate the story and inevitable point of view that is inherent in every story, every post, whether it claims to be editorial or personal or pure journalism. We have to be careful not to be offensive without good cause, but I don't think we can avoid the offense that some will take because the discussion is offensive with good cause.
In that realm, I think that no matter what the right wing folks have to say, the success of their political party, the republicans generally, further the causes of outlawing abortion and legalizing torture. It is the party that will further the globalization, commodification of the planet. Nothing alive here on this planet is respected for its inherent holiness unless that holiness has commercial value or furthers a political will to protect and extend free market capitalism.
I feel called to confront that world view, respectfully, but firmly. Some will take offense. I think there is good cause.
After reading that comment...
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 9:29am.I am not in disagreement at all. But a notion that has been on my mind for some time could boil it down to a much shorter statement. "Don't be so thin skinned".
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Agreed
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 8:41pm.I appreciate your keeping the peace Rob. =)
2cents
Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 10:02am.Hola OlyBlog Posse, jus checking in today (and trying to fend off my cat who is assuming ownership of my lap...must be winter).
I often have trouble understanding the context of post on the thread, but I hear your 2cents-- I can strive to find descriptive, non-insult-based ways to communicate what I want to say, and I will.
I think it is easy to slack on the social graces while blogging, but it would also stand out if we as a community could help blogging grow into a more civil medium.
I'm thinking:
humor tags, sarcasm tags, and "I'm f'n p*ssd-off tags!...as well as a serious tag and maybe a politics tag to go along with a relgious viewpoint tag...
...just a thought >grin<
Sarcasm punctuation
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 7:19pm.This world's crazy, give me the gun. -- P.J. Harvey
sarcasm mark
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 7:34pm.There are other possibilities....
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 8:21pm.This world's crazy, give me the gun. -- P.J. Harvey
Haven't seen the French
Submitted by ctqwn on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 10:58pm.Haven't seen the French irony mark but like the concept. Is it ironic that it's French, or is it French because it's ironic?
Anyway, the upside down exclamation mark can be made by using the "insert custom character" function in the rich text format for posting here. But I think it's quicker and easier to do it by holding down the Alt key while typing the numbers 0161, like this ¡. In Spanish, this mark is not used to indicate sarcasm, instead it's used in front of an expression like this, ¡Caramba! Let's you know up front that that it's an exclamatory phrase instead of waiting till the end to hit you w/ it.
All sorts of foreign punctuation and letters w/ diacritical marks can be typed once you know the ALT + number code. Like putting that ~ over the n in mañana. Maybe the European quotation marks would be good for sarcasm, such as, «Nice weather we're having». This stuff is all in the part of your "Windows OS known as the Character Map. It's fairly well buried these days as a "System Accessory" if you have XP, but in older systems it's easy to find. My 2¢ worth.
Maybe it's best if we just say what we mean
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 12/19/2007 - 11:07pm.What gug said:
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 9:06am.Maybe it's best if we just say what we mean
And I think we can do that politely and forcefully. Offense may be taken. The discussion may become passionate and even heated. And I believe it can still be polite and forceful.
Humor and misunderstandings can be worked out easily if saying what we mean is the touchstone. Apologies and retractions when wrong or mean-spirited will help also. I have gotten one of those privately from a person to my right politically (is there anyone here to my left? and what are you doing over there? How's Che?) but I think those apologies and retractions work best if they are done openly so that everyone understands that there is community of some sort at work here, despite the essential politics of important and meaningful discussion.
I guess I can try to look for an emoticon that captures all my thoughts, think I saw one at Walmart once. (that was snide, I don't like emoticons generally, insert winky face or something cute that is to your liking here.)
My sarcasm will not be silenced
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 10:30am.Maybe you should take some
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 10:36am.Look at that, would you?
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 10:42am.Or in your case
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:00am.Yeah, whatever, dude
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:16am.See,
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:27am.The light finally dawns.
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:47pm.Oh comeon dude
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:50pm.I think people
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 9:39am.are far too sensitive here on this blog. I agree that we wouldn't want the behavior here to swing the other way and be like the Olympian comments section. But it seems that's how comments here are measured. So in an attempt to not be like the Olympian comments section, we go to the extreme the other direction.
As an example, I have yet to see anything Tschida has written that should garner the negative attention he gets from those in conflict or disagreement with him on the blog. I believe the reason he does get hammered a lot here is because he is a conservative voice, and he writes very well. Not only does he write very well, he doesn't sugar coat things, much like Mike. Mike writes well, and his lack of sugar coating sometimes comes across as hostile, abrupt, or mean to some people.
I say get over it people. As long as someone isn't being threatening, completely disrespectful, blatently racist/sexist, making personal attacks, etc. quit being wimps. We should all be nice here on the blog. But don't confuse passion or directness on a topic as being mean.
I appreciate the use of humor, and even sarcasm in blogging. It gives the blog personality, and if used appropriately it can amplify a point. Just be sure everyone knows it's humor or sarcasm. You can do that in written form or you can use these
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
Say what you mean, doesn't mean
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 10:18am.I disagree...
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:02am.
When people start demanding they not be offended, with out question the issue has gone too far. No one but me knows what will offend me, and it is my responsibility to reject or accept and deal with the offending comment. Who am I to try through the use of a speech code make others walk on egg shells around me so I won't have any unsettling emotions stirred up by someone like Gug, or Rob, or Rick?
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas SowellYou are obviously never going to get it.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:44am.So much for the free expression of ideas!
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:22pm.It seems to me that demonstrated in many of the recent posts that the topic of conversation is how to manage other peoples comments. All in an effort to do so in order to prevent anyone from being offended. Here is the problem, How do I know what will and will not offend other peoples feelings. Rob likes to have his cake and eat it too. He can offend at will and then takes the authority of docent to threaten people and tell them how they can say what they have to say.
Perhaps the speech code isn't working as well as hoped.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
here's an example
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 2:39pm.If you found what Rob Richards said to be personally offensive, then let him know. If he blows it off and tells you to grow a thicker skin then we have a problem with Rob Richards.
Tsch...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:29am.Because
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:37am.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Okay, so you don't do it out of any consideration
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 11:46am.Again, Olyblog has fallen
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 12:42pm.Again, Olyblog has fallen victim to the PC bug (and this one is not on Windows). I'll just go along and say I agree with Tsch and Krull here. No need for further comment.
There is nothing wrong with asking people not to be jerks
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 12:54pm.Why not ask what PC means
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:02pm.Why not ask what PC means instead of shoving it aside? I stand behind my comment.
People should...
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:15pm.C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas SowellOnly you can tell us what offends you or not
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:22pm.Is it about being a jerk?
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:28pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
I swear around some of my friends
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:37pm.I consider Olyblog a friend,
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:42pm.I consider Olyblog a friend, not a legislative body. We can now cuss, Gug said so! =)
We'll spend more time trying to manage emotions than discussing topics if we don't let a few things go once in a while.
We let things go ALL the time here
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:47pm.My in-laws are not drinkers
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 1:47pm.He's respectful enough never to preach or tell his sons-in-law what they can and can't have in their fridge, and in return we don't make a point of cracking one open in front of him.
Nobody's pussyfootin', nobody's being PC, we're just being respectful of each other. And nobody was oppressed, repressed, or trampled on.
Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake
I'll lay it out clearly
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 2:36pm.I was extremely pleased to see you post something hyper-local regarding the Oyster House. I consider that a step in the right direction. If you continue in that direction I will continue to be welcoming of your presence on OlyBlog.
If, however, you revert to attacks in the comment threads involving further cases of misrepresenting people's words and/or views (I can think of one involving JanetB and one involving Rob Richards off the top of my head), then I will temporarily suspend your account while I bring the motion to permanently ban you to the other docents. While you paint a picture of people being thin skinned I would argue that people have had their dermis whittled down to the bone by your ongoing combativeness. security_six is an excellent example of a person with whom many voices on OlyBlog have fundamental disagreements yet has found himself welcome by creating content and adding to the discussions with his point of view.
As far as being responsible for other people's feelings is concerned: neither overt, as you stated, nor covert hate speech is acceptable. If somebody finds something I say to be hurtful and they bring it to my attention then it is not up to them to grow a thicker skin, it is up to myself and the OlyBlog community to resolve it "through a process with a strong will to collaboration." If I denigrate your religion this is not acceptable. If I denigrate you this is not acceptable. OlyBlog exists as a space to collaborate in an effort to strengthen and improve our community.
Hate Speech?
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 3:30pm.Overt or Covert Hate speech? Wow enpen it sounds like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
It is obvious that you treat how someone like Rob acts on this blog in the comments and the things he posts differently than you treat me. Why would that be Enpen? I would also like to know EXACTLY how you suggest people post with out offending anyone. How does a person like you write a blog post or comment and ensure that you will not offend me? Further when you do offend me, what would happen?
How about this for an idea Enpen, free speech for everybody, not just those you deem worthy?
And just a reminder, not everytime someone disagrees with you is it an attack.
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
You refuse to "get it"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 3:37pm.Here is the thing though
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 3:45pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Not talking about any speech code
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:04pm.So if I say I see what you mean you will feel better and ...
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:48pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
an easy answer to this...
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:20pm....is to find a blog with which you agree with every fiber of your being.
line item
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:18pm.Wow enpen it sounds like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
I'm laying it out nice and simple like, I'm not particularly sure how that translates to me having a chip on my shoulder. But if you want to read that into what I wrote, feel free to waste your time.
It is obvious that you treat how someone like Rob acts on this blog in the comments and the things he posts differently than you treat me. Why would that be Enpen?
I thought my example of security_six would spell that out clearly enough for you. People are given more latitude when they provide constructive content for OlyBlog. When people are not constructive they are given less. It's not a double standard. It's a standard.
How does a person like you write a blog post or comment and ensure that you will not offend me? Further when you do offend me, what would happen?
Who said I did? In fact I'm relatively certain that in my previous comment to you I chose the pronoun "I" very intentionally so as to illustrate just what should happen.
How about this for an idea Enpen, free speech for everybody, not just those you deem worthy?
How about you don't mischaracterize, misquote or berate people for having a different opinion than yourself? If you can't agree to those stipulations then feel free to create your own hyper-local blog.
And just a reminder, not everytime someone disagrees with you is it an attack.
Where did that come from? Last I checked I hadn't complained about you attacking me once. Rather on too many occasions now I've given too much of my time outlying just how flawed much of your logic has been on OlyBlog. If anything I'm sick of that and if I felt comfortable kicking you off of OlyBlog for flawed logic I would have done so a long time ago now, this last statement being just the latest leap of yours.
Chips
Submitted by jlw on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 6:18pm.This world's crazy, give me the gun. -- P.J. Harvey
That's great, but you know
Submitted by Ehver Green on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 11:27am.Enpen
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 3:51pm.People get offended all the time, and sometimes for ridiculous stuff. So are you saying that no matter how silly the complaint against us is, we are to take it seriously?
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
If your dog's on a leash
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:03pm.If you swat your kid someone will get offended. If your kid's throwing a tantrum and you merely watch and wait someone will get offended.
If you boycott Stormans someone will get offended. If you buy a donut there someone will get offended.
We, each and every one of us, are offensive. I'm not saying people should submit and be abused, I'm not saying people should stew and accept what is unacceptable to them, but for some things people need to just move on. If they can't get over it, fine, I'm still burning from things that happened in the 70s, but we can either move on or continue to stare each other down while they build a freeway around us.
Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake
good point, Krull
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:25pm.Fortunately I have yet to see somebody complain on OlyBlog over being offended about something "silly." I suppose if and when such a thing were to occur we as a community will deal with that.
"Free speech"
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:30pm.I've said it before, you absolutely DO have a responsibility to others feelings while on OlyBlog. This isn't about what you do at home or the thickness of other peoples skin. This is about our community. I've also in the past extended the open invitation for you to find a blog more suited to your unique conversation styles if you are feeling so oppressed by being asked to simply be nice.
Not possible
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:40pm."you absolutely DO have a responsibility to others feelings"
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
Well, actually it is possible
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:49pm.Using your example
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:18pm.are you responsible for their feelings or for your actions? Seems their feelings have a lot to do with their life experiences and how they apply those to your actions. They own their feelings, and are solely in control of them.
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
I cannot separate my actions
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:21pm.or
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:26pm.a solipsist.
But
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:31pm.can you be expected to know ALL that would bother someone? In your example, the prelude to a butt kickin', yeah that's predictable. But sometimes things are less brightline. Are we always responsible for the feelings people feel?
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
this is getting twisted
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:35pm.Nobody said you are responsible to knowing what will bother somebody. What we have said time and time again is that if somebody points out that they are bothered by something then it is up to the person who made the offending statement to work with that person (and the OlyBlog community as a whole if necessary) to sort out the issue. That is why we have this language in the Social Contract: "All must share alike in...resolving differences through a process with a strong will to collaboration." Refusing to acknowledge that somebody may be hurt/offended whether or not you intended it is not working to resolve differences through collaboration.
It's not about predicting what will offend.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:41pm.The problem with Tschida is that it seems like he doesn't care enough to recognize that he's offended someone or care to change the tone of his posts here to improve the atmosphere of the blog. I don't understand it myself, I think this place is great when conservatives and liberals and lefties and righties play nice. The arguing doesn't get us anywhere.
I'll give you an example
Submitted by jlw on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 6:38pm.This world's crazy, give me the gun. -- P.J. Harvey
I went and re-read parts of that post and the comments...
Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 1:18pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Are you still upset about the
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 5:42pm.Oh Boy
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 5:45pm.Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake
I second that
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 6:02pm.No one is asking anyone to beware of every little thing
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:45pm.Oppressed?
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 4:55pm.When is the last time Enpen accused someone of hate speech? Was it recently and I missed it? Just wondering. I don't feel the least bit oppressed, because I choose not to feel that way. What I do firmly believe in, is that you have an agenda, and it doesn't have any room for dissent from the right. You have a clear agenda when it comes to my comments and you have demonstrated it on many occasions. I believe you also said you were too biased to get into these discussions.
Finally, I would also like to extend to you a similar invitation to you to find a blog more suited to your unique conversation styles if you are feeling so offended by honest un-ashamed conservative opinion.
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
You seem pretty convinced this is all about your
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:18pm.Since I'm a newcomer here,
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:22pm.show me some of Tschida extreme sins. I have seen him get flack, but really the reaction to his comments seem way over-blown to me.
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
I'd recommend reading
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:31pm.Old posts. I do not have the time to go dig them up for you. A post regarding the Storman's boycott has him mischaracterizing a local activist's statement and attacking her based upon the mischaracterization. He never owned up to that one. Another post regarding Camp Quixote has him mischaracterizing another local activist and attacking him upon that mischaracterization. He never owned up to that either. In both cases he was presented directly with the evidence and never once apologized or rescinded for the falsifications.
If that's all you got from the past
Submitted by Krull on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 6:19pm.and assuming the sins have been accurately reflected here why keep dwelling on it. I haven't seen anything here in the last 6-8 months I was lurking that would cause all the flack Tschida has been receiving.
Seems the injustice files run long and hard here on Olyblog.
Thanks for the two examples Enpen. Like you my time is important and this isn't my dragon to slay. But if you weigh out what you guys have for evidence, this jury says "not guilty".
"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--
nice
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 6:36pm.You asked for the most egregious. The rest of of the examples are the run of the mill looking-for-anything-but-common-ground variety. Aside from the Neo-Nazis I can't think of any other personalities who so routinely sought to fight in the comments rather than use the opportunity of OlyBlog to add to the community. You, for example, have been posting a number of articles which you think would be good and informative for your fellow OlyBloggers rather than arguing in the comments. I think you provide an excellent example of conduct for Tschida.
The only thing "extreme"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 12/20/2007 - 5:33pm.So Gug,
Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 11:13am."unwillingness to cop to his modus operandi" Two things about this statement come to mind. You don't seem able to understand what my 'modus operandi' is, as you tend to complain about yours and others feelings. You also seem to infer that I deny what my 'modus operendi' is. Did I do that some where I have forgotten about? Or are you thinking of some instance where you claimed something about how I operate, as you did in this statement with out actually bothering to know the truth? If the latter is true, I would be glad to provide you information you would need to accurately reflect my position since you missed the mark here. To the very best of my memory I have not denied my so called 'modus operendi'. I am always willing to help.
C.
Granted. So I'll edit.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 11:21am., his unwillingness to cop to his modus operandi,and [your] inability to respectfully acknowledge, for one second, the comments of his fellow Olybloggers about the effect he has on the atmosphere here."Ok one point down...
Submitted by Tschida on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 12:26pm.I have posted stuff that is out side the snide generalization that I have an "unquenchable search for conflict". Again you don't know me, but you spend a hell of a lot of time telling me how to say what I have to say rather than dealing with the issue at hand, and you assert I have "unquenchable search for conflict". I would not be far off if I suggested you are projecting here. I have posted many items that are free from conflict. The post about The Oyster House restaurant would be the most recent example. Is that an "unquenchable search for conflict" or "hate speech"? I think not.
Further, I think that this comment would prove the assertion that I have an "inability to respectfully acknowledge, for one second, the comments of his fellow Olybloggers about the effect he has on the atmosphere here." ""unwillingness to cop to his modus operandi" Two things about this statement come to mind. You don't seem able to understand what my 'modus operandi' is, as you tend to complain about yours and others feelings. You also seem to infer that I deny what my 'modus operendi' is.... To the very best of my memory I have not denied my so called 'modus operendi'. I am always willing to help."
Does this fit your claim? Is this an “inability to respectfully acknowledge, for one second, the comments of his fellow…” I don’t think so. Do you disagree?
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
I just see defensiveness,
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 12/21/2007 - 12:56pm.