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Submitted by Rick on Tue, 07/25/2006 - 5:00pm.
Jul 27 2006 - 11:00am

[via email]

At 11 a.m. Thursday, The Olympian will hold an online chat with state Sen. Dan Swecker, R-Rochester, and state Rep. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, about Wednesday morning's gay marriage ruling by the state Supreme Court. Big implications, obviously, for this fall's elections, next year's state Legislature session and even Congress.

Your users can send us questions for Swecker and Murray here.

Thanks.

Christopher Dean Hopkins
Online News Editor, The Olympian


Update: go here to read the filings in the case (Andersen v King Co.).

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I think people are really

I think people are really missing the point about state recognition of "marriage."

Nearly every reader on The Olympian's website has used the word "Christian" to either support or disapprove of their stance.

"I am for free commerce with all nations, political connection with none, and little or no diplomatic establishment. And I am not for linking ourselves by new treaties with the quarrels of Europe, entering that field of slaughter to preserve their balance."

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And I said wouldn't comment on social issues anymore

I have softened my opinion on this a bit.  If gay couples want to get married, I'm ok with it for them.  I don't agree with it from a religious stand point but I agree with the point that TFI is trying to make.  I see no problems with them being allowed to be married, and afforded the benefits of that union.  A state recognized union I'm ok with.  Heck, I'm ok with a church that feels gays can and should be married doing so in their building/service.

But, my concern is this.  A gay couple may try to force a church that doesn't condone this type of union to marry them.  I can already see that if the chuch declines to marry them, the couple could and might file a discrimination lawsuit in violation of the new laws prohibiting discrimination against gays.  Clearly refusing to marry them because they are same sex would be a violation of that new law the way I read it. 

Thoughts?

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Wouldn't that count as the

Wouldn't that count as the state infringing on said church's freedom to practice religion? If you're right about the wording, we're setting ourselves up. Somebody should sort out the language to allow churches to follow their teachings.
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Yeah,

I agree with both Meta and OlyCop. I don't believe that gay marriages would do anything to harm the institution of marriage that straight marriages haven't done already. I think if we HAVE to have a law it should say that the state will recognize gay marriages equally and that a church is allowed to follow it's teachings and decide if they want to do it or not.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.

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OlyCop put it exactly the

OlyCop put it exactly the way it should be.

I also share the same fear that a church could be charged with "discrimination" for refusing to marry a homosexual couple.

"I am for free commerce with all nations, political connection with none, and little or no diplomatic establishment. And I am not for linking ourselves by new treaties with the quarrels of Europe, entering that field of slaughter to preserve their balance."

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Here's my two cents...

Here's my two cents... Olycop's concern highlights for me the fact that state-endorsed marriage violates the separation of church and state, or the "entanglement" test for the First Amendment.

If a church were to refuse to marry gays, it could be argued that they were violating the civil rights of gays by denying them access to a state endorsed union.  But the state shouldn't be endorsing a ceremony that is fundamentally religious in nature.  Marriage is a SACRAMENT, like baptism or taking communion.  The state would never regulate baptism, so why should it regulate marriage?

From a legal standpoint, I absolutely believe that state sanctioned marriage should be abolished.  Civil unions should be available to any consenting adults who want to be fiscally responsible for one another.  This could include roommates, siblings, friends, intentional communities... anyone.  This union would be for economic purposes, and would not be attached to the existence of marital ties or even a romantic relationship.  Leave the sacrament of marriage out of it.

Marriage, as a religious sacrament, ought to be left to faith communities to sort out.  Some are willing to marry gays, others are not.  I certainly believe that it is in the best interest of Christianity to allow marriage to gays that desire it.  Churches, however, that wish to hold to discriminatory sexual teachings and dogmas should not be forced against their wishes.  We would never force them to offer communion against their wishes (eg, as an Episcopalian, the Roman church will not offer me communion.  Though I strongly wish for greater Church unity, I would never want to force a ban on this type of religious "discrimination").
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I agree.

Keep church and state separate. Civil unions available via state, marriages kept to faith community determination.

I'd never advocate trying to force a church with state law to accept any type of civil union they don't wish to.  I'd fully support anyone's choice to work for change within their faith community, without bringing in the state.
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I think there are many who

I think there are many who don't consider marriage just religious thing. I don't think we should limit people who aren't religious to civil unions, we would certainly end up with cries of discrimination. Marriage has become a symbol of two peoples love for one another as opposed to the business deal that it was in the past. When two people go before a judge to get married there is no less love between them than you have for Meta. Why should we let our opinons get in the way of other people being able to express their love? I have many opinions, I think that religions are tearing our world apart and if we don't become more secular soon it could mean the end of our species on this rock. I'm not going to lobby for a law to be passed outlawing churches and mosques and temples. I'm not going to lobby for religious texts to banned. I'm not going do that because your belief in religion and my non-belief in religion are our personal opinions, and our personal opinions should not be forced on others.

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself." - T.P.

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for the record...

Churches would not be made to marry same-sex couples. Hell, they don't have to marry anyone they don't want to. They don't marry people for lots of different reasons.

You do not have to be married by a church to be married.
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