Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 12:37pm.
Mar 4 2007 - 10:00am
Mar 4 2007 - 6:00pm
Associated with the Port Militarization Resistance Project to prevent military convoys from using the Port of Olympia as a staging point in the escalations of occupation in Iraq;
There will be a nonviolence/civil disobedience training this Sunday from 10am until 6pm in the SEM II E wing, third floor.
So, you are opposed to the ongoing occupation of Iraq . You have written and called your senators and congressman, attended protests and rallies, and talked to all of your friends. The hope you had last November that the new Democratic majority would reverse course is rapidly fading as you watch Congress debate non-binding resolutions that the President has vowed to ignore as he pushes forward with an escalation of an additional 21,500 troops. You are probably asking yourself what more you can do to end this national nightmare.
Here is an answer: Act locally to end our community’s participation!
The Campaign
Olympia Port Militarization Resistance (OlyPMR) has launched a campaign to end our community’s participation in the illegal occupation of Iraq by stopping the US military’s use of the Port of Olympia . The immediate goal of the campaign is to prevent a Ft. Lewis Stryker brigade from using the Port of Olympia to deploy to Iraq as part of Bush’s planned escalation of the conflict.
OlyPMR intends to achieve its goal through a continuum of actions that includes public education, lobbying key elected officials, non-violent civil disobedience to prevent equipment from reaching the Port and being loaded onto a ship, and a Festival of Life to celebrate our community’s commitment to peace and justice.
OlyPMR has adopted a statement of non-violence to guide the campaign.
Get Involved!
In order to succeed in our goal, WE NEED YOU!
There are many ways to support this campaign:
Share this message with your friends and neighbors.
Contact the Port Commissioners and tell them you oppose using our public port to support the occupation of Iraq .
Contact members of your City Council and County Commission and urge them to not allow public money or local law enforcement to be used to support military shipments through the Port.
Write a letter to the editor of The Olympian.
Participate in civil disobedience (or support those who will participate). Attend the upcoming civil disobedience training on March 4 from 10am-6pm at TESC Seminar II. A flyer describing the training is available by request.
Help organize and participate in the family-friendly Festival of Life.
Through this campaign we have an incredible opportunity to take direct actions to end our community’s participation in the occupation of Iraq , and to provide a powerful model for other communities. It is the ultimate expression of thinking globally and acting locally.
Can we count on you to stand up for peace and against Bush’s escalation?
Please contact me if you have questions, concerns, comments or suggestions or to let me know how you plan to participate.
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 9:36pm.
So, I looked at the flyer and it sure looks like those protesters are breaking the law. No? Is it your expectation that you will be arrested when you emulate the flyer? I'm certain there is an RCW that addresses roadways and access. You not only stop military vehicles, you also impede daily traffic flow and potentially emergency vehicles, etc.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:20pm.
I have an obligation to resist this illegal military action that my government is performing in Iraq.
When I look at the news I see the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq. Therefore any potential illegality regarding the blockade of a public thoroughfare is moot when juxtaposed with the horrors of what is taking place in Iraq.
Under the Nuremberg Principles we have a duty to resist the illegal war making actions of our government.
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:35pm.
I see, but, I believe your 'moot' argument has already been ruled against in a court of law. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. You aren't entitled to break local laws as a means to distrubute your beliefs about our current government and situation in Iraq.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:47pm.
Yeah, you may have a point EG. I am not an expert on the legal issues. I do know, however, that the right to express political speech and petition the gov't for redress of grievance is constitutionally protected and has stood up to various assaults in the judiciary.
Essentially this action is protected as speech.
Additionally, I would appreciate it if you read this quote as food for thought:
“Cowardice asks the question, ‘Is it safe?’ Expediency asks the question, ‘Is it politic?’ Vanity asks the question, ‘Is is popular?’ But, conscience asks the question, ‘Is it right?’ and there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because one’s conscience tells one that it is right."
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:56am.
Free speech is only protected when the associated words and actions are compliant (not in violation of other law). Otherwise, you are subject to the consequence of those laws. Creating human chains is absolutely protected -- right up to the point that the traffic is interfered with. Title 9, Chapter 16, Sections 20, 30, 50, 60 and 80 may be applicable.
I read the quote and have seen it many times before - it was good to refresh on the exact text. Thanks for the post.
Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 11:25pm.
Janet, as I read this thread and get ready to post my opinion, I ponder what you wrote:
...did/do you break the law voicing your opinion about Storman's? I didn't think you did, and I'd consider that an example of consumer awareness/political belief that was fairly peaceful, lawful, and didn't really block any traffic-- do I have a point or am I too lost in semantics?
Boycotting and picketing are lawful forms of protest, but wouldn't qualify as civil disobedience, as no laws are being broken. In the case of Ralph's, I have had two avenues for voicing my discontent: boycotting, and complaining to the Pharmacy Board. It has yet to be determined by the Pharmacy Board if Ralph's is out of compliance with the law, but if anyone is engaged in civil disobedience in this situation, it would be Ralph's.
As far as the illegal occupation of Iraq is concerned, I have demonstrated many, many times, as well as signing petitions, emailing Congress, etc. Unfortunately these actions, on my part and the part of many other people, have had no discernible impact whatsoever on national policy. There's nothing to boycott, and no one to file a complaint with. This is frustrating for me; I not only believe the occupation of Iraq is illegal and immoral, I also believe it's bad policy that will have repercussions for decades. I want it to stop. What do I do?
I'd like to point out that while civil disobedience isn't lawful, and may block traffic, it is usually "peaceful," and from what I understand, PMR organizers are intent on ensuring that upcoming port actions remain nonviolent, and that no property is destroyed.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 3:28am.
I disagree with you've written about free speech rights only extending to compliant behavior.
I would also like to ask you EG why you are so quick to condemn and harsh on the behavior of those who choose to oppose the shipments and militarism - BUT - you are unquestioning, seemingly, of the illegal and immoral - the horrific - acts of the US gov't in Iraq and elsewhere, e.g. CIA blacksites and illegal/indefinite detention of "enemy combatants."
The quote is quoted for food for thought (yeah right)...you wrote that just to call everyone who is concerned about safety a "coward", and to put down anyone who is not "down" with your jihad for justice: you are no more or less than any of us, and I read your intent is to insult and browbeat folks into accepting what you are doing as "right/correct".
I'm gonna go have a nice sesh, pet my cats (feed & water them, and the others that come around), and then I'm gonna go for a rippn bike ride! If I sit here and post on this blog my anger and frustration will betray me: I'll say and do what i feel, but it will be bad, just worthless ranting--
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 6:04pm.
Nah, but thanks. I'm not going to continue in keeping with Rick's most recent critisism post. This is my last post on the topic. I'll read about the arrests in THE OLYMPIAN! It's bound to happen...
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 2:10am.
Hopefully, there will not be any arrests! For a number of reasons: the military can decide that use of the Port of Olympia is not in their best interest, the authorities can determine that those who are blocking (a possible) convoy are doing what is right and what is best for the country, or, perhaps - there will be so many people in the blockade that the authorities couldn't make arrests from a logistical perspective.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:25pm.
Bad eggs or bad apples, is one reason why doing a training so vitally important. if everyone know how to react in that situation, the effects of such a person can be ameliorated, hopefully.
Bad eggs can show up everywhere. Some are in the peace movement. Some are in the police force. Some get elected president. It's a challenge working around the bad eggs, but a populist movement moves on its own power. Training is helpful. Discipline, patience, staying on message is helpful. Continuously rejecting any impulse to punch someone else in the nose is helpful. The bad eggs will have trouble with those tasks.
EG - it's not about legal and illegal, it's about right and wrong. Defending right, advancing and protecting basic human and civil rights has often been against the law. Assisting slaves to escape slavery was against the law 150 years ago. You were interefering in a slave-owner's property rights when you took part in helping slaves escape. It was illegal and it was right. It's all very easy to see when you look back 150 years later. It was not clear to see when it happened.
I think same thing here. To do what is right here will involve breaking laws, inconveniencing some folks in the community. Some folks will likely get punched in the nose. Doing the right thing is not without risk. Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., Malcolm X can all attest to the risks for speaking and acting out.
sometimes I think the best egg knows when to stop holding back that impulse to punch someone in the nose and let the impulse show the other egg just how much the best egg really appreciates them.
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 2:53pm.
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. Civil disobedience is, by definition, breaking the law. Check out the wikipedia entry here. I may be wrong, but I don't think most folks who practice civil disobedience do it because they assume an "entitlement" to break laws. Usually, there is a reasonable expectation of arrest, and (provided the disobeyers are non-violent) a reasonable expectation of safety.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 12:24am.
Without going into a great deal of depth, PMR is about accountability. The system of governmental checks and balances has failed.
Tell me, was the aggressive and belligerent invasion of Iraq right? And is the ongoing (imperial) occupation of Iraq right? Is the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people right?
Can someone tell me why the US is in Iraq if not for global dominance and oil?
Global Dominance and oil are not good reasons for possibly as many as a million Iraqis to have been killed and over 3,000 American soldiers to have died! Not good reasons. Not acceptable.
It is simply time to make this stop. PMR is acting locally to oppose the further transport of weapons of destruction to Iraq in order to effect change in a broader sphere. We can have a greater impact locally than we can elsewhere.
I hope this helps with your understanding, please feel welcome to ask more specific questions Chad, and I hope that with your interest in journalism that you will be right alongside, in approval or not, for the whole ride.
p.s. Are you planning to go to the Capitol tomorrow?
Rob, you and the OlyPMR are not even being accountable to your fellow citizens in Olympia!
...and you made a choice when you responded to answer even one question I put to you in my post.
--and now you ask me, "ps, are you planning to go to the Capital tomorrow?"-- what gives?
My questions are not worth a response?
Figure it out buddy--
Hypothetical:
...say I decide to exert my rights as a citizen and call DHS to ask for additional military support for this convoy...what you are doing is domestic terrorism Rob (face it)... is this OK with you Rob? am I just as OK as you, or now am I a "tool" of the US gov't because I don't agree?
You can't even explain yourself when asked nicely: I'm sorely tempted to meet and confront you...you are a dangerous element, regardless of your opinions on the war or civic activism.
I do not appreciate what you are doing/trying to do: please re-consider!
The real sad fact is that we both agree that US policy is messed up, but in my opinion what you are doing is really messed up, and that you are doing it here, in the place where I choose to live is even for upsetting-- can you even take into account that what you are doing is a wrongness that is separate from the "wrongness" we each percieve in the gov't's policy?
...and with this, I'm out-- I wish this rig had a spell-checker onboard! >peace in 2007<
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:17am.
Chad, could you substantiate your statements please. PMR doesn't endorse violence or terrorism.
Frankly, I am hearing at least as much rhetoric from you as I think that I might be using.
My message sans rhetoric: I don't like what my government is doing in Iraq. I think it is illegal, immoral and a humanitarian disaster. I feel obligated as a human being to oppose the horrific actions of my government. It's that simple Chad. It's about doing what is right.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 03/02/2007 - 7:47am.
It got kind of quiet in here all of the sudden. Really, all rhetoric aside, I am working with PMR because I think it is the right thing to do. I am sorry if it scares you. The thought of endless, permanent, war to maintain a pathetic illusion of "global dominance" is scary. It is past time to confront the war machine.
What is scary is to put myself in the shoes of an Iraqi person, whose life has been turned upside down - whose friends and relatives have been killed, who can't go to the market without fear of being shelled.
What is scary to me is to think of Americans in the military being abused into a fear based mentality where the killing of other human beings is presented as a viable form of conflict resolution. No thank you. And not in my name!
"Impeachment" hearing today at the capitol rocked!
If "they" ever outlaw firearms and you are pepper sprayed and hauled off to jail for engaging in civil disobedience over this type of matter, I will understand your point and will feel bad for you.
I don't think pepper spray and coercion are good ideas in general, but that's what the whole thing is about - standing up to coercion and illegitimate use of force, working and risking property, safety to reduce the level of coercion on the planet.
I almost always feel badly about coercion, feel it's wrong, and the victims of coercion usually receive my sympathy.
I can say you are probably a more empathetic man than I am.
If "they" ever outlawed firearms, I would be done lobbying, and would not be participating in civil disobedience. More than likely I'd lose myself someplace with my favorite rifle and see how well I do living off the land and being incognito.
If "they" ever outlawed firearms, I would be done lobbying, and would not be participating in civil disobedience. More than likely I'd lose myself someplace with my favorite rifle and see how well I do living off the land and being incognito.
Two words: Randy Weaver.
We have to stand up for the right to be different, to think differently, to live differently. I own no weapons, but I think the bill of rights is worth defending in all its particulars.
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 1:03am.
IN addition to Janet's response above, I would like to say that although the fact that the war isn't legal doesn't justify that the civil resistance may not be entirely legal - the unlawfulness of US actions in Iraq are many magnitudes more severe and detrimental to society. War crimes - specifically the act of committing an aggressive military invasion - is the most serious, heinous and grievous crime that a human being can commit.
Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 11:49pm.
Murder is murder, and it still does not justify your actions: you are a law breaker, and it is not correct/right-- Not paying IRS would bring more results, but that takes alot of courage to take on the IRS alone, and it is still (technically) still illegal...
Does anyone know if fed taxes are optional? I hear rumors like that alot--
In light of the fact that Strykers are going/have gone out through the Port of Tacoma, have plans for the CD training tomorrow at Evergreen changed? If someone knows, please post. Thanks.
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So, I looked at the flyer
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 9:36pm.So, I looked at the flyer and it sure looks like those protesters are breaking the law. No? Is it your expectation that you will be arrested when you emulate the flyer? I'm certain there is an RCW that addresses roadways and access. You not only stop military vehicles, you also impede daily traffic flow and potentially emergency vehicles, etc.
Necessity
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:20pm.When I look at the news I see the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq. Therefore any potential illegality regarding the blockade of a public thoroughfare is moot when juxtaposed with the horrors of what is taking place in Iraq.
Under the Nuremberg Principles we have a duty to resist the illegal war making actions of our government.
Thanks for the questions Ehver Green! ^_^
In the Course of Events
I see, but, I believe your
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:35pm.Doing What is Right
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:47pm.Essentially this action is protected as speech.
Additionally, I would appreciate it if you read this quote as food for thought:
In the Course of EventsFree speech is only
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:56am.Free speech is only protected when the associated words and actions are compliant (not in violation of other law). Otherwise, you are subject to the consequence of those laws. Creating human chains is absolutely protected -- right up to the point that the traffic is interfered with. Title 9, Chapter 16, Sections 20, 30, 50, 60 and 80 may be applicable.
I read the quote and have seen it many times before - it was good to refresh on the exact text. Thanks for the post.
Civil Disobedience involves breaking laws
Submitted by jlw on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 2:42am.did you break the law?
Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 11:25pm....did/do you break the law voicing your opinion about Storman's? I didn't think you did, and I'd consider that an example of consumer awareness/political belief that was fairly peaceful, lawful, and didn't really block any traffic-- do I have a point or am I too lost in semantics?
I'm not sure I get your point
Submitted by jlw on Fri, 03/02/2007 - 9:03am.As far as the illegal occupation of Iraq is concerned, I have demonstrated many, many times, as well as signing petitions, emailing Congress, etc. Unfortunately these actions, on my part and the part of many other people, have had no discernible impact whatsoever on national policy. There's nothing to boycott, and no one to file a complaint with. This is frustrating for me; I not only believe the occupation of Iraq is illegal and immoral, I also believe it's bad policy that will have repercussions for decades. I want it to stop. What do I do?
I'd like to point out that while civil disobedience isn't lawful, and may block traffic, it is usually "peaceful," and from what I understand, PMR organizers are intent on ensuring that upcoming port actions remain nonviolent, and that no property is destroyed.
Free Speech and Compliance
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 3:28am.I would also like to ask you EG why you are so quick to condemn and harsh on the behavior of those who choose to oppose the shipments and militarism - BUT - you are unquestioning, seemingly, of the illegal and immoral - the horrific - acts of the US gov't in Iraq and elsewhere, e.g. CIA blacksites and illegal/indefinite detention of "enemy combatants."
In the Course of Events
what is your intent?
Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 3:40pm.I'm gonna go have a nice sesh, pet my cats (feed & water them, and the others that come around), and then I'm gonna go for a rippn bike ride! If I sit here and post on this blog my anger and frustration will betray me: I'll say and do what i feel, but it will be bad, just worthless ranting--
Just an FYI EG
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 5:45pm.This point "breaking laws for the greater good" was made numerous times last summer. You may want to flip through some of those threads.
Nah, but thanks. I'm not
Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 6:04pm.Eventualities
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 2:10am.EG, what do you think of the MLK Jr. quote above?
In the Course of Events
Hopefully there isn't a bad
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:15pm.Hopefully there isn't a bad egg in the bunch to spoil the message of everyone else.
Bad "Eggs"
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:25pm.In the Course of Events
Bad eggs can show up
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 7:46am.EG - it's not about legal and illegal, it's about right and wrong. Defending right, advancing and protecting basic human and civil rights has often been against the law. Assisting slaves to escape slavery was against the law 150 years ago. You were interefering in a slave-owner's property rights when you took part in helping slaves escape. It was illegal and it was right. It's all very easy to see when you look back 150 years later. It was not clear to see when it happened.
I think same thing here. To do what is right here will involve breaking laws, inconveniencing some folks in the community. Some folks will likely get punched in the nose. Doing the right thing is not without risk. Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., Malcolm X can all attest to the risks for speaking and acting out.
Oh, I don't know
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 5:47am.sometimes I think the best egg knows when to stop holding back that impulse to punch someone in the nose and let the impulse show the other egg just how much the best egg really appreciates them.
I think you have just
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 12:18pm.Civil disobedience, by definition
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 2:53pm.Confronting the Problem of Terrorism
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:32pm.In order to confront the problem of terrorism - in our times, and in future times - we must examine how the actions of our own government antagonizes and exacerbates global terrorism.
And then we must figure out what to do about the actions of our government.
In the Course of Events
isn't this unlawful?
Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 11:57pm.Doing What is Right
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 12:24am.Tell me, was the aggressive and belligerent invasion of Iraq right? And is the ongoing (imperial) occupation of Iraq right? Is the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people right?
Can someone tell me why the US is in Iraq if not for global dominance and oil?
Global Dominance and oil are not good reasons for possibly as many as a million Iraqis to have been killed and over 3,000 American soldiers to have died! Not good reasons. Not acceptable.
It is simply time to make this stop. PMR is acting locally to oppose the further transport of weapons of destruction to Iraq in order to effect change in a broader sphere. We can have a greater impact locally than we can elsewhere.
I hope this helps with your understanding, please feel welcome to ask more specific questions Chad, and I hope that with your interest in journalism that you will be right alongside, in approval or not, for the whole ride.
p.s. Are you planning to go to the Capitol tomorrow?
In the Course of Events
...so off base--
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:02am....and you made a choice when you responded to answer even one question I put to you in my post.
--and now you ask me, "ps, are you planning to go to the Capital tomorrow?"-- what gives?
My questions are not worth a response?
Figure it out buddy--
Hypothetical:
...say I decide to exert my rights as a citizen and call DHS to ask for additional military support for this convoy...what you are doing is domestic terrorism Rob (face it)... is this OK with you Rob? am I just as OK as you, or now am I a "tool" of the US gov't because I don't agree?
You can't even explain yourself when asked nicely: I'm sorely tempted to meet and confront you...you are a dangerous element, regardless of your opinions on the war or civic activism.
I do not appreciate what you are doing/trying to do: please re-consider!
The real sad fact is that we both agree that US policy is messed up, but in my opinion what you are doing is really messed up, and that you are doing it here, in the place where I choose to live is even for upsetting-- can you even take into account that what you are doing is a wrongness that is separate from the "wrongness" we each percieve in the gov't's policy?
...and with this, I'm out-- I wish this rig had a spell-checker onboard! >peace in 2007<
Not Terrorism
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 1:17am.Frankly, I am hearing at least as much rhetoric from you as I think that I might be using.
My message sans rhetoric: I don't like what my government is doing in Iraq. I think it is illegal, immoral and a humanitarian disaster. I feel obligated as a human being to oppose the horrific actions of my government. It's that simple Chad. It's about doing what is right.
I hope you understand!
have a good night.
Rob
In the Course of Events
semantics >bleah< you scare people in my 'hood
Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 03/01/2007 - 10:59am.PS, in case you didn't catch my 'blog, what are your viewpoints on animal rights?
you take care as well-- g'nite
>peace in 2007<
Kind of Quiet
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 03/02/2007 - 7:47am.What is scary is to put myself in the shoes of an Iraqi person, whose life has been turned upside down - whose friends and relatives have been killed, who can't go to the market without fear of being shelled.
What is scary to me is to think of Americans in the military being abused into a fear based mentality where the killing of other human beings is presented as a viable form of conflict resolution. No thank you. And not in my name!
"Impeachment" hearing today at the capitol rocked!
In the Course of Events
Yep
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 03/02/2007 - 5:20pm.It got kind of quiet in here all of the sudden.
Cause we've been here, done that, argued about it, agreed to disagree etc.
I wish you folks the best, I understand your point(s) but I'm not gonna feel bad for you when they start pepper spraying and haul you off to jail.
If "they" ever outlaw
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 2:44am.I don't think pepper spray and coercion are good ideas in general, but that's what the whole thing is about - standing up to coercion and illegitimate use of force, working and risking property, safety to reduce the level of coercion on the planet.
I almost always feel badly about coercion, feel it's wrong, and the victims of coercion usually receive my sympathy.
Well Mike
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 5:44am.I can say you are probably a more empathetic man than I am.
If "they" ever outlawed firearms, I would be done lobbying, and would not be participating in civil disobedience. More than likely I'd lose myself someplace with my favorite rifle and see how well I do living off the land and being incognito.
Two words: Randy Weaver.
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 7:42pm.Two words: Randy Weaver.
We have to stand up for the right to be different, to think differently, to live differently. I own no weapons, but I think the bill of rights is worth defending in all its particulars.
Lawfulness
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 1:03am.In the Course of Events
> whatever<
Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 11:49pm.Does anyone know if fed taxes are optional? I hear rumors like that alot--
Is the training still on for Sunday?
Submitted by jlw on Sat, 03/03/2007 - 12:52pm.