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Submitted by rosscowman on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 11:39am.
This just happened. A military recruiter just called asking for Joseph Becker. My friend Lee asked him where he got this number and he told her "It is from a 1996 phone list from Evergreen." Lee responded that she was "surprised that Evergreen would hand out student's private information to military recruiters." He responded that Evergreen is difficult to work with but that they were cooperating with their requests for student information.
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Looks like students must request confidentiality
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 2:25pm.It's really not that tough
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 6:46pm.Recruiter: "Hi, I would like to talk to you about the wonderful opportunities that Uncle Sam and the government would like to offer you in today's military."
Student: "Hmmm, I have asthma, I use my inhaler 10 times a day. I also tried to commit suicide a few months ago, and was institutionalized. OH, and I'm homosexual.
Recruiter: *click*
laugh if you want, but I mentioned "asthma" to a marine corps recruiter over the phone once, and never received another call.
Carrot
Submitted by rebecca on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 9:05pm.I'm thinking what's at stake here could be financial aid. I'm not sure of the details. I believe universities that receive federal financial aid may be required to offer some level of cooperation to the U.S. Military. If so, Evergreen could be making a choice between providing student information or sacrificing funds that some students need to stay in school. (I'm not totally sure on what the requirements are. It might only be in connection with allowing establishment of an ROTC program. Perhaps someone else knows more about it?)
Sorry
Submitted by rebecca on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 9:51pm.I did a little research, and it appears I was mistaken. I looked at the criteria for an institution to be eligible to receive student aid, and there does not appear to be any requirement that they make records available to the military. I thought I remembered hearing something (maybe about ROTC) . . . but I found no mention of either in the preliminary research that I just did.
Developing story . . .
Submitted by rebecca on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 10:00pm.According to Wikipedia, ROTC programs were mandatory for land-grant colleges current law provides for with-holding federal funds other than financial aid from colleges that refused to establish an ROTC program.
Perhaps I wasn't so far off after all. I thought I remembered hearing something somewhere.
Norm...
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sat, 02/09/2008 - 2:58am.That reminds me of a visit I got from Jehovah's Witnesses years ago. I lived in a daylight basement house so I saw them coming. We lived halfway up a steep hill. So they had to walk up the hill, up my driveway and climb the stairs.
Knock knock. I open the door and was asked "Are you concern at the conditions in the world today?"
No. Door closed.
One Federal Law is the Solomon Amendment
Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 6:44pm.It's known as the Solomon Amendment. Basically it requires higher education institutions to grant military recruiters the same degreee of access to campus and students that it allows other employers. If a college or university does not comply, certain federal funds can be denied the college.
This kind of stuff is nothing new. The federal government does it all the time. For example, the old "55 mph speed limit" was never an absolute. States were, in effect, given the choice of setting their top speed limit to 55 or do without federal highway funds.
Jeff Brigham
DUI Standards
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 12:56pm.I am curious Jeff, would you support a 55 mph speed limit?
But the recruiters can't get a list of names of folks with
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 8:19pm.concealed carry permits from the city and I think the city also gets the occasional federal dollar or two. Plus the concealed carry permit list would probably be a gold mine to recruiters when compared with the Evergreen student list.
Go figure.
Do you have a problem
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 8:33pm.That? I don't think colleges should have to give out information to recruiters, and just because I carry a gun doesn't make me a candidate for the military.
At any rate why are you up in arms over not being able to get CPL info. What would you do with it if you could get it?
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
Let's break that down a bit S6
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 8:48pm.doesn't matter if you or I think colleges should be able to give out student info, the fact is that colleges do give out student info. As covered above, it is probably tied to federal dollars to the colleges.
I suspect that any reasonable statistical analysis of evergreen students or college students in general and folks who routinely carry a gun will show that the gun carrier population is a statistically better bet for military recruiters than the college student population. These statistics would include the college students who are waiting for the military recruiters to call (not a big piece of that pie) and they would include S6 who is armed and packing and has no interest in a military career. Stats are stats, they are not rules.
As for up in arms over cpl? No, not that excited about it. It seems to me that as a public safety issue, folks who are uneasy being in close proximity to weapons in public might have an argument that they should be able to know who in the community has gone to the trouble of being approved to carry a concealed weapon. But like the rule for military recruiters, the rule on CPL says this is private information. What we think about it doesn't matter much, the rules are the rules.
My intent was to contrast the varied treatment of the privacy issue.
what would I do with the info on cpl if I had it? Probably read it, see how many friends and acquaintances have done that paperwork, and then I would probably give them a little wider berth because I would prefer not to be in close proximity to weapons as a general rule.
Up in arms? Was that a joke?
Yes
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 9:01pm.It was a joke, and I fear we are in danger of hijacking this thread. But here is a brief history lesson, although uncited at the moment. In the history of carrying arms in this country and the westward expansion, two things were believed. One is that the bearing of arms for personal and public defense is a right. This is enshrined in most state constitutions. The other was that concealed weapons were a problem. Open carry was the norm and the people who generally concealed their weapons were people trying to be sneaky for whatever reason. Oh, polite company such as dances or in a state legislature may have demanded concealed weapons for forms sake, but it was known that the "gentlemen" may be armed. Gamblers, and other "lesser" elements concealed their weapons and that was considered an unfair advantage. If you did not know who had a weapon, the advantage to being armed was negated. Person A open carried his gun and you knew it was there you were able to make judgements about that person. Person B hid his and you had no idea if he was armed and so were unable to make fully informed judgements about him.
Several state constitutions such as Texas while ensrining the right to bear arms, specifically disclaimed allowing the practice of concealed weapons. The funny thing is now you cannot OC in Texas, only CC.
Anyway the notion of permits to conceal your weapon comes from the idea of ensuring that those who hid their weapon from plain sight were law abiding people. If you hid your weapon and had no permit, the general assumption was you were up to no good. Criminals hid their guns, honest citizens had their's visible. Now this is a lot of generalization here, but for the most part it holds up.
Permits have addressed the public safety issue of carrying arms. Only those who can pass an FBI background check get them. Open carry also addresses the public safety issue of carrying arms. If you can see my gun then you can make judgements based on that. Personally one reason I OC is to show people that perfectly normal law abiding tea drinking citizens carry guns and cause no murder, mayhem or other problems. At least one place I frequent has specifically told me they have no problems with my OCing and even welcome it, and it isn't a gun shop or sporting goods store.
At any rate I believe modern criminal elements have negated the public health issue of CPL's and they should be done away with entirely. Vermont and Alaska do not require them to carry concealed for that very reason.
Anyway if you want to continue this discussion we should do it in another thread or by PMing each other. Maybe a docent can spin our discussion off...
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
Go figure.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 8:37pm.I'd love to know who the genius was that thought Evergreen would be a good place to recruit for the military!
Funny story to share:
My dad was in ROTC before going active duty. This was Vietnam war era, during all the social unrest. The campus ROTC commander wanted to do an "ambush" training with the students, and needed someone to play "enemy" for the cadets. Now, they were using real military-issued guns, with blank rounds. Wanna know who the bright fellow invited to play "enemy" (and loan real guns to)? The campus chapter of the SDS! My dad was a bit nervous about that one. ;)
The Canaanite's Call
What is
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 8:41pm.SDS?
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
SDS
Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 9:37pm.students for a democratic society
at one point they were a radical antiwar student group. i guess they're making a come back. it doesn't seem like they're as radical or as motivated towards direct action. sitting in the street in front of strykers is one thing but the old SDS took over buildings and made demands.
Yep.
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 11:03pm.And when the SDS schism'ed the more radical wing called itself the "Weather Underground", which took part in a few bombings (including the federal Capitol!).
The Canaanite's Call
I think the recruiters are a little desperate
Submitted by Mike on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 8:50pm.when they are trying to track down the notorious fighting geoduck alumni to make their enlistment quota.
Great story!
Maybe the Geoduck Fight Song
Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 02/10/2008 - 11:03pm.would make a good marching cadence!
The Canaanite's Call
I'm really going to hijack
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 2:19am.I'm really going to hijack the thread here, but if the list of Concealed Carry Permit holders were to be made public based on the argument of "public safety" and the comfort level of being near an individual with a firearm I would bet that just as equal an argument can be made to make a public list available of those who carry HIV and AIDS.
Well Said
Submitted by security_six on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 2:22am.Might as well publish lists of blacks, homosexuals, high school dropouts, mentally disabled people, owners of large dogs, or any other group that makes folks uncomfortable. It's all about having an open and accepting mind.
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." -Ford Prefect
I don't think folks choose to carry HIV AIDS
Submitted by Mike on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 7:36am.nor are they required to get a permit to carry HIV AIDs among us. There is a question about compassion that may arise for folks who have contracted a terrible and infectious disease that may not arise for folks who have chosen to carry a lethal weapon concealed. But I really don't expect the gun folks to get these distinctions and we are certainly off the topic.
I will post this as a separate thread for further discussion if anybody wants to touch it.
I agree. After all, Anthony
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 8:02am.Now take a little while to find your way in here
Now take a little while to make your story clear.
Nick Drake
If every thread is going to turn in to a gun rights thread,
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 02/11/2008 - 9:32am.The Olympian: Youths to hear
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 2:13pm.The Olympian: Youths to hear WWII stories:
Mandatory that all freshman at a major university enroll in the Reserve Office Training Corps. The horror of your phone number being given to a recruiter!
The first minute and a half is of the same sentiment: