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Future of Late-Night Transit

Thu, 08/14/2008 - 2:08pm — Just another voice

Some of you may have remembered last spring when the Evergreen Nightline began running. It ran on Fridays and Saturdays between midnight and 3AM, and on Sundays between 9PM and midnight.

During the 11-week pilot period, the Nightline carried over 3600 people, for an average of about 38 riders an hour. The ridership was excellent, and the usage was consistently high. On several occasions, the Nightline was almost at full capacity.

This Fall the Nightline will begin again under contract with Intercity Transit and Evergreen. Several changes are being considered, including the changing of route times and the route itself. These are a breakdown of service changes that are proposed based on input from students at Evergreen:

 Revised Route

  • Condense downtown service (loop back into downtown at Plum Street instead of Puget Street)
  • Serve both the Dorm Loop and Red Square.


Enhanced Friday & Saturday Schedule
  • Leave TESC Campus at 12:00M, 12:30AM, and 1:30AM
    • Changed from existing: 12M, 1AM, 2AM

  • Leave Downtown at 12:00M, 1:00AM, and 2:00AM
    • Changed from existing: 12:30AM, 1:30AM, 2:30AM



Possibility to add a 2:30AM departure from campus, and a 3AM departure from downtown.

How important is late-night bus service to you, and what do you think would increase efficiency and use?

 

Comments

Fri, 08/15/2008 - 8:17am — Logarithm

Yay

I'm so glad that it's starting up again, and at more memorable time slots. Although I only rode it a couple times, it was nice being able to go out on the town by bus because I knew that there'd still be bus service when I wanted to head home.

Do you know what date the Fall service starts?

Wait, is there any "late" night Sunday service? I used their 9pm bus a few times.
Fri, 08/15/2008 - 1:31pm — olygoldchimp

Super Jealous

I lived on the West side, on the 41 bus line, for more than nine years. I was constantly cursing the lack of transit after eleven and the spotty service on Sundays. I believe it was two months after I moved to Tumwater that IT instituted the late night 41 service. Meanwhile my new bus line’s last run is at 9:30. Weak. However my jealously of those who live on the 41 line is by far overcome by my happiness that all those drunks will be taking the bus home and not out careening through the streets of downtown. I think it is a great step that IT has taken and one that should definitely be expanded with late night service to Tumwater, Lacey and the Eastside. IT could actually make some money off those runs since they would not be full, or at least not as full, of greeners riding free on their student IDs. Even if it wasn’t profitable for IT the city could, and should pay for it, so that it can reap the rewards of increased downtown business, fewer traffic accidents and DUIs, not to mention the environmental benefit of giving people a way to spend a night on the town without a car. If the late runs saves one person from being killed by a drunk driver then they are worth the thousands of dollars they would cost to operate. People > $
Fri, 08/15/2008 - 2:47pm — StopDriving

Rock on Drunk Busers

That's great that it is coming back. I live on the West side and can totally take advantage. Wish it ran every 30 minutes but hey, it's a start. More drunk buses for everyone. I am in favor of a Tumwater, Lacey and Eastside drunk bus too.
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 12:36am — hazzardus waste

yes spread it out...

This service is plainly for the greeners. And to me it smells of patronage amd elitism. I am totally for expanded late bus services for all main routes. But why does evergreen think that they should get bus service when others walk ? eat the rich the poor are skinny
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eat the rich the poor are skinny
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 8:15am — Just another voice

They pay

The reason TESC gets this service is because they pay IT for it. I am sure if you took the time to show IT another route would make money they would do it. No special treatment here, but you get what you pay for.

But I am Just Another Voice

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But I am Just Another Voice

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 9:04am — hazzardus waste

so how much?

First all greeners get free bus ridership just by flashing their student I.D. Does the college pay the full price for 5000 some odd bus passes? or even close to this? I will go out on a limb and say not. Next if the college is paying, how much. Does any one have the numbers? now I added up the rider totals mentioned and if all people paid the full fare the amount was 4900$ for the whole 11 week total at 3600 riders does or would this cover the full cost of this route? I once lived so far out in lacy that i heard the artllery fire from ft. lewis most days it shook the house. I had no bus service after 7p.m. and none on the weekend. so again I ask why does evergreen think they should get bus service when other bus lines get shortened or cut? I will stay on topic and leave other things that are on my mind about evergreen out of this post. eat the rich the poor are skinny
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eat the rich the poor are skinny
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 10:08am — Meta Hogan

As I understand it, this

As I understand it, this service is separate from the college-bus-pass program. Evergreen actually contracts with IT for the service (ie, they pay for the cost of it). As far as new services elsewhere, IT is facing a crunch in the near future. I'm sure everyone's input is welcome here, not just with ideas for possible routes but also possible creative funding ideas and volunteering with seeking funding. Currently:

Ridership is way up, with some routes at or over capacity at peak times.

Revenue from sales tax is flat, when it usually increases by several percentage points (this is a difference of up to millions of dollars).

Additional routes require not just additional buses/drivers/gas, but also larger facilities. The Pattison Street facility is at capacity for storage and maintenance activities, and adding to it would require a considerable capital expenditure.

Gas is astronomically expensive, even in the quantities that IT buys in.

So, at this point, the status quo could get difficult, and expansion would certainly require additional funding. Any ideas?

 

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 11:47am — hazzardus waste

this brings up a interesting point..

If they are paying wouldn't it be along the lines of providing shuttle services? which the federal government has just ruled that transit services cannot provide to special groups. The article I read on this was in regards to shuttle busses to sporting events; but I think this is aplicable because it provides irregular service to a special inerest group. Which the article points out that would make said bus co.s lose their federal dot money. Face if you provide special bus service to a select group it is patronage especially since after classes are out the bus stops running. now I make an assumption here but if it stops when classes let out it is more apperant that you are providing services to a special group. I am all for more buses and in other situations I would be all for this but this really gets my goat that drunk greeners get a free bus while others get shafted. and as to the new federal regs you might get into hot water with it if someone researches it and points it out to federal officials. so I still say it is elitism and patronage and now that I think about it JUST PLAIN WRONG. How much does evergreen pay for both the passes and the new late night service? I really want to know if they are really are paying their share. eat the rich the poor are skinny
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eat the rich the poor are skinny
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 1:08pm — Just another voice

Actually, Evergreen doesn't



Actually, Evergreen doesn't get anything for free from IT. Evergreen pays about $170,000+ every year for the "free" bus passes to students. No special treatment.

The late-night service is not exclusive to Evergreen, therefore the regulation you cited does not apply. This was a big concern in making the service legal, but anyone that pays the regular fare can ride the Nightline. It doesn't provide an 'irregular' service, since the ridership is excellent and indicates that the service is very much needed.

And when it all comes down to it, Evergreen is not paying for any of these things. The students are. The 170K for the free bus passes are part of student tuition, and the 12K/qtr for the Nightline is also paid for entirely by students.

So it's just students paying for what they need and want. Every major university or college in the nation does the same thing.

But I am Just Another Voice

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But I am Just Another Voice

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 2:05pm — hazzardus waste

kicking a dead horse here but...

170,000 dollars pays roughly for about 2 months of monthly bus passes for 5000 so they do get a cut rate there. and this night service is only for the school year not year around. the fact alone that evergreen pays for this to the tune of 12,000 a quarter does not help as taxes and federal monies pay for the buses and infrastructure which in the way I look at it is using public funds to benifit the students. I still smell somhing fishy and I hope someone smarter will investegate this more thouroughly. As I feel this is something that my still fit these federal guidelines. unless they make the service year round I cannot see how any one can say that they are not using federal D.O.T. money for a small intrest group. I have allready posted too much on this and have covered most of my points so I wont be responding to any more rebutals. How about this shuttle running from the Lacy border to evergreen as a year round shuttle late night so it would cover eastside westside and to the campus with the greener money. It could still cover the scedule every hour and benifit others besides the college students.it would run like a 62 to the lacy sign and and then to a 48 combined if you can understand this. eat the rich the poor are skinny
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eat the rich the poor are skinny
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 3:43pm — Just another voice

Weekly and monthly surveys

Weekly and monthly surveys of Evergreen ID pass usage determines how much is paid to IT for the service. Obviously not all 4000 students will use their bus passes-- many will not use them at all. So it is based on surveys of usage performed by IT, so it is a 'pay for what you use' type deal. It is a fairly acurate system. Trust me: Intercity Transit doesn't cut any slack.

In the case of the Nightline, it isn't exclusive. Anybody can use it. Like all of public transportation: you can't serve everybody all the time. Because it is a service open to the public and paid for by students at TESC this shouldn't be an issue. They aren't breaking any laws and certainly not wasting anybodys money but the students who use it, so it should really be a non-issue.

At many colleges and universities, bus routes to the campuses are 'in session' only, and provide service only when their is a need. In the case of the Nightline, without students, ridership would definitely plummet.

But I am Just Another Voice

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But I am Just Another Voice

Sat, 08/16/2008 - 7:14pm — hazzardus waste

I really think you are missing my point.

nt.
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eat the rich the poor are skinny