Graffiti along Cooper Point

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Graffiti along Cooper Point

Submitted by JohnT on Sat, 12/15/2007 - 11:28pm.

Recently graffiti has been appearing all around Cooper Point Road and around Evergreen State College. Most recently, a neighbors new fence was tagged with some gibberish about not consuming. It's all some anarchy mumbo-jumbo. THIS IS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF FREE SPEECH!!!! THIS IS JUVENILE VANDALISM AND IS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR! Adults can express their opinions without destroying other people's property, especially people that are perfectly innocent I'm sick and tired of seeing my neighborhood defaced by this idiot. The family who lives in this house is not wealthy. Its a very small house. They appear to be from India and working hard to make the American Dream happen. They moved in a few years ago soon after I did and have been fixing up their house and yard ever since. They seem to be very friendly - perfect neighbors. What did they do to deserve this vandalism?

We have to catch this guy. He's ruining the whole neighborhood. The neighborhood association is posting a description of a guy who could be responsible. He's white, young 20s, slight build, maybe 6' high, thin beard. He was riding a bicycle and had a red back-pack. He was seen acting very suspiciously at the scene. 15 minutes later, he was gone but the graffiti was there. Does this sound like anyone you know? Please turn him in before one of the neighbors stifles him. John

JohnT's blog
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A couple of question

Submitted by Mike on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 10:02am.

Do you think that graffiti truly "destroys other people's property" as you have stated?

I think it defaces and possibly damages property, but I am not sure it destroys property. (I remember a story about a possibly deranged artist (is that redundant?) who thought his "art" should be applied on top of other art on display at galleries, even in that case, I am not sure the property was destroyed, but a work of art on display in a gallery is not a surface that can be simply repainted or pressure washed)

Second question: do you really think that anyone is "perfectly innocent?"

This is an existential question that transcends concerns about property rights and attachments.

The thing that comes to mind when I read your post is that you are not careful with language and assumptions and I see this story as a news story primarily. Someone is tagging or doing graffiti in a manner that is causing a problem, so the facts are important in the story and a measured presentation of the story is called for imho.

And lastly, journalism always works best when there is "art." Pictures of the ruined neighborhood would be helpful for the rest of us to see and independently evaluate the level of ruin being reported.

Now mind you, I am not defending graffiti, but I think there is room for difference of opinion and I think good journalism requires a little more information and balance than is presented here.

Do you think it was

Submitted by wilson on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 10:29am.

Do you think it was journalism or was it one of our neighboors asking for help?

Journalism.

Submitted by Mike on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 10:34am.

Journalism.

Journalism

Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:39am.

In the sense of it being someone coming here and saying "this is what is going on near me." So, it would be both.

Mike

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:44am.

You are playing a rhetorical game.

Unwelcome tagging is exactly that.....unwelcome.

Some rhetoric, yes... but both and, not either or

Submitted by Mike on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 1:06pm.

As I said, I am not defending graffiti or tagging. Have had it at my place, don't like it generally. I feel like I own the front of my garage that is a target for tagging, but I have to admit that I really don't have ownership interest in the city's retaining wall that abuts my garage and is an attractive target for graffiti and tagging.

My personal reaction to the tagging and graffiti that pops up on this wall really depends on the content. I don't see anything particularly beautiful about a bare concrete wall, but it can get worse if the "art" applied to it is badly done or offensive in content or style. Hence the request for a picture of the graffiti that is being reported.

I know it's hard to believe, but sometimes folks will print things that are not true, so a picture helps. And of course, a picture can be photo-shopped, so even pictures on the net can't necessarily be trusted, but a picture and careful, specific, reasonable language is helpful with an accurate presentation as journalism, and also probably helpful in terms of the call for help.

Somethings things are not "either or" - they can be "both and." As in both rhetorical and authentic for dialogue. It's a slippery slope, but context and intention to the extent it can be determined may be important.

The questions remains: can we see pictures of the graffiti that is destroying the neighborhood? (I find the "destroying property" and "ruining the whole neighborhood" language in the original post to be a little rhetorical also)

Two different world views I

Submitted by wilson on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 10:44am.

Two different world views I guess.

I agree with you Wilson

Submitted by Krull on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 10:55am.

Seems like a guy that is upset over some asshole doing damage in his neighborhood and came here looking for some help. I doubt he has any desire to be a journalist.

I'm sure he is just thrilled with Mike's help.

"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--

wow, this thread got off topic fast.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:55am.

Let me first say that Emmett is right, it's both. It's journalism because he's reporting the news from his neighborhood, and it's also a way for him to ask for help. The Olympian posts information about criminals on the loose and where they were spotted and what they look like all the time. Same thing. This is an example of a person using the power of community to try to solve a problem. It's great.

OK, now to respond to the original post. This is not anarchy. This is juvenile behavior. Period.

I don't live in that area so I probably couldn't be much help, I'll now look at every thin bearded backpack carrier as a suspect though.

A picture of the tag

Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:56am.

might help.

I've Seen A Guy Fitting This Description

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 12:45pm.

riding his bike through my neighborhood after dark almost every night. But I'm county so trying to get the TC Sheriff out here for something like that would take hours. We call Evergreen police but they always tell us to call TCS.

remember

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 1:06pm.

there are probably a thousand guys that fit that description in this town. I mean come on, thin beard, backpack, bike riding, tall, skinny? It sounds like the "average" TESC male to me.

"It's all some anarchy mumbo-jumbo."

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 2:28pm.

This line is wildly, powerfully pointed and concise (I'm NOT being sarcastic or snarky here). I wish that more of our local "anarchists" could hear this. It is a very clear message that their message is not getting through in the slightest. If they even know what their own message is.

I'm not intending to bash on anarchism here, seeing as I would vaguely call myself anarchist. The point is that too few anarchists understand the importance of personal responsiblity and of being accountable for how one's communication lands with another. Anarchism simply won't work without a strong culture of responsibility and crystal clear communication.

I hope the vandalism stops, JohnT, and that you and your neighbors get a little bit of peace.

The Canaanite's Call

Very well said Phil

Submitted by Krull on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 2:44pm.

I see now that Gug may have been correct when he said that you are "almost universally civil, thoughtful, and constructive".

"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--

So let's stop

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 3:54pm.

referring to them as anarchists. Again, way off topic here, but it makes me sick that idiots who do stuff like this get to define an entire political ideology. They wouldn't know Mikhail Bakunin from Mikhail Baryshnikov if you asked them. To me it's no different than moderate Christians being pigeon-holed with abortion clinic bombing Christians. This kind of ignorant generalizing needs to stop.

Anarchy is not disorder or chaos, it means "no government", and that means small autonomous communities, like this blog, working to create social order where people are free to live in peace and seek happiness.

I have a request

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 4:37pm.

I want an "anarchist FAQ thread" and I want the darn thing stickied or put into a book or a permanent link created somewhere on the front page. Anyone else?

Rob posted a complete

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 5:34pm.

Rob posted a complete definition on his own thread. The problem is perception. There may be more to it but what I see is not what I hear.

No matter how different the true anarchist message might be, the defacing of stores, telephone boxes, cable housings, etc, with a symbol representing anarchy hurts the cause. Your average American isn't going to invest the time to educate themselves on the pure anarchist message which means everybody's lumped in the same bucket.

So...

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 5:46pm.

I should start a campaign to start using Christian crosses instead of the Circle A when vandalizing.

I know you are joking

Submitted by Norm on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 6:37pm.

but really that would be kind of funny. Maybe they could be called, "Cantankerous Christian Organization".

And be a poser? I don't

Submitted by Ehver Green on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:18pm.

And be a poser? I don't think so.

poser?

Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:36pm.

I feel like I'm back in the 80's riding my Powell & Peralta Steve Cabellero board.

file a report

Submitted by chad360 on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 2:36pm.

olyblog is not for vigilantism >or is it?<

My advice would be to file a police report, and we all know the result will be probable cause to stop and interrogate suspects that fit the description. ...and that is a great thought now isn't it--

I don't know what the correct answer is, or could be--

we have this happening in the Eastside as well-

"olyblog is not for vigilantism >or is it?<"

Submitted by Phil Owen on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 2:44pm.

I'm not sure I would call this vigilantism, unless you also call a neighborhood watch program vigilantism. In my book, vigilantism goes down as citizen's usurping the State's monopoly on legitimate force, for the purpose of catching and punishing criminals (or people believed to be criminal, or people who look funny, or people thought to be using witchcraft, or the local crackpot, etc). Vigilantism evokes images of lynch mobs in my mind.

What JohnT is doing here looks to me like healthy community participation.

The Canaanite's Call

JohnT's post

Submitted by chad360 on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 8:29pm.

I totally agree with the brunt of all this, and I certainly do not condemn JohnT.

There are unintended consequences to watch programs & many ways to look at stuff (each with various labels & connotations), so without too much angst one either has to let law enforcement take point or work for other solutions (like info sharing/block watch, etc...).

I don't know a correct answer, and both choices have pros/cons--

I don't understand vandalism, but I do understand neighborhood watch, and how it can be mis-used, and how it can mis-fire--

I find it odd that this is being done on private stuff & not gov or corporate holdings--

Solution?

Submitted by Just another voice on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 5:39pm.

I have and idea on a possible way to stop this. Let's turn the idea of anti-capitalisms and anti-money against them. Let's put togeather a reward fund. The bigger it get the more likely people are to turn them in. There are students who know who they are and could use some extra money. The Neighborhood Association should work with crime stoppers to get a fund set up. I would be willing to give a few bucks to see this stop. What do you'll think?

But I am Just Another Voice

Solution

Submitted by Kay on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:45pm.

I like the idea of a reward. The tags look trashy. There are 2 "tags" near where I live on State. Is this Gang "turf" labeling or kids? How do we get rid of them? (the tags) Do we go buy some spray paint to spray gray over the nonsense? I'd love to catch the kids and teach them a little, like how to clean spray paint from a wall. Do we call the city to have a government employee clean it? I'm looking for solutions to get paint off of the walls, telephone poles, stop signs, and light poles. Would Hair spray or finger nail polish remover work? k

lets think

Submitted by little_teapot on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 1:24am.

Lets think about why the person or people is/are putting up the graffiti. The graffiti that i have seen is usually the circle a or some anti-capitalist, anti-imperial, anti-gov slogan in very public visible areas (unless i have wrong)though it maybe ugly or stupid and annoying it is trying to send a message and make one think. So instead of straight up just figuring out a punishment for these young hooligans why not come together as a community and create more spaces for free expression and education? i know we have the free school and the graffiti wall but both of these only cater to a small group of people. so why not give more room for these frustrated voices in more public arenas? I guess what i really want to know is why do we turn to punishment first instead of creating an alternative that could work for everyone? or is this too nice and hopeful?

How bout you quit whining

Submitted by Sako on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 5:52pm.

How bout you quit whining and find something more important.

It's okay

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 5:56pm.

to be nice.

but is it cool?

Submitted by chad360 on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 8:18pm.

Being nice seems so hard...getn all jumpy, >in-your-face<, and being verbally "hard" on the ole O-blog seems to be the"hit".

Maybe "Nice" being just "OK" is not enough anymore--

--maybe we-all should "up-the-ante" and nominate "Nice" for an permanent upgrade from "ok" to "RAD"?!

...with that kind of incentive, >whew<, the sky is the limit!

any thoughts?

Its even ok

Submitted by emmettoconnell on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 8:14pm.

to be constructive.

Y'know....

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 8:59pm.

if this had happen in Texas, this guy would probably be dead on someone's lawn by now.

thats why

Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 9:47pm.

thats why i don't live in texas. obviously whoever this person is, they're an asshole, but they don't deserve to die.

I'd live down that way....

Submitted by Norm on Mon, 12/17/2007 - 11:45pm.

if it weren't so stinkin hot. I enjoy the gray cloudy/rainy days.

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