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Submitted by Rick on Wed, 07/04/2007 - 8:50am.

Here's a new take on Independence Day that you probably haven't heard. From Howard Zinn on AlterNet:

On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.

Is not nationalism -- that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder -- one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?

These ways of thinking -- cultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on -- have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.

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Happy Independence Day!

Happy Independence Day!

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Hate to point this out, but

Actual independence for the United States came on January 14, 1784, when the Treaty of Paris, signed by Great Britain and reps of the new Continental Congress, was ratified by Congress. Sometimes, though, I wish that we could have a new Treaty of Paris, or at least a Treaty about Paris limiting media coverage....
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Thoughts?

Do you actually agree with this, or do you want to raise interesting discussion? I would like to hear your opinions against nationalism, because most members of most nations would be for it in my own thoughts. Some would thoroughly hate their countries, but I believe most would believe in the abilities of those who govern them. I know that is a touchy subject, especially on an intelligent political blog, but when it comes down to the wire, I think most people believe that their governments are looking out for the majority's best interest.Shit, I just proved your point, bet you know who I am now.   

    I digress, the ties between racism, religious hatred, and the flag, are subjective when it all comes to the wire. You can love your country and not hate anyone of a different race or sexual orientation. I know that for a lot of people that I have met that America is a straight, white community, but I also know that these people come from a small town background where there isn't even diversity for the residents to understand. I work with a diverse crowd at my workplace and as far as I'm concerned; race, sex, religion, sexual orientation don't come into play. All that matters to me, and most of my coworkers, is who will get their work done. 

    I believe this is a wonderful country, I know it has its faults, but name one that doesn't. I do not support George Bush for one millisecond, but I believe the system is not so corrupt that it is wrong. It takes corrupt people to design a corrupt system, and they would have to work their asses off to do so.  

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Some would thoroughly hate

Some would thoroughly hate their countries, but I believe most would believe in the abilities of those who govern them.

I actually think it's the other way around, most of the time.

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Long Live Revolution!

Independence Day, to me, is not about the flag, or nationalism, or patriotism. Independence Day is about the revolutionary spirit that our country is founded on. When a group of revolutionaries threw some tea in the water, it changed the world. Actually, that one act alone didn't do anything. It was a series of events that perpetuated change from a non-representational government to what our founders gave us. There were most likely many folks at the time who criticized that action. Many people probably filled town squares and public houses with great criticism regarding the destruction of that property. I can hear them now: "Those dirty hippies!", or, "Why don't they just shut up.", or, "Those lawbreakers need to be hung out to dry."

Now, many people today will talk of that great act of defiance against unjustified authority and are quite moved by it. They will support it without exception. Yet, when a group of people who today feel great passion toward a cause come together and act defiantly against those that they feel are unjustly exerting control over people or public spaces, they are faced with verbal abuse, attempted public shaming, and threats of violence.

Where does "the law" stop and humanity begin? Where is the line that I can walk up to as long as I don't stick my toe over? Who decides that throwing tea in the water is patriotic but claiming a safe place to sleep or hang out is anti-social?

The 4th of July is a celebration of the bounty of revolution. We are better off today because groups of people throughout this nation's short history have become fed up with "the way things are", and decided that things needed to change, and that unconventional means, or sometimes illegal means, were the only way to make those changes happen.

Independence Day is most certainly a day to celebrate, but let's celebrate more than a tri-colored piece of cloth, and more than a bomb exploding over our heads. Let's celebrate the true spirit of what it means to be American, or at least what it meant to the founders. I think that means we look past our differences and see each other as we are. We're all just people trying to get by, and if we stand in each others' way, none of us will get anywhere.

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Human nature...

I think a lot of people have a difficult time with studying history and applying its lessons in a modern setting.

No doubt the British who wholeheartedly opposed American independence also revered the Magna Carta.

The Canaanite's Call

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We Might be Better off Under the Crown

Face it. Britain has the strongest economy. They have universal health care. Maybe we would be better off today if the founders hadn't been successful in breaking off. Although I think that Britain would have probably broken the colonies off eventually without any help from Americans. Things would certainly be different today if it hadn't been for the establishment of the United States and the Declaration of Independence.

Personally I enjoyed the Alternative 4th of July Celebration of Democracy and Free Speech. The music was good and the games were fun. The speakers were informative and interesting.

Here's a question: was the revolutionary war necessary, or could independence have been secured via purely nonviolent means?

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On Nationalism

Right now, various Native American groups are working to increase amount of local autonomy that they have.  They have separate laws for their reservations, their own police forces, and so on.  I approve of that, since I think that national sovereignity is good for people.  If you don't believe in nationalism, you must think that's a bad thing.

The alternative to national governments is world government.  The trouble with world government is the tendancy for states that respect human rights to break down into tyrannies and dictatorships.  When that happens, people flee to freer countries, if they can.  If there was a world government, it too would eventually become harsh and tyrannical.  There would be no free country for refugees to flee to. 

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