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Submitted by ladyisabelle on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 10:09am.
With your permission (and please state so in the email), we will post your picture. Please provide a location and short description, also your name as you wish it to appear on the website. If you have any questions or comments to improve the website, please get in contact with me. We are trying to reach out to the community to help document and understand this disaster to help mitigate and prepare for future hazards.
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That picture looks makes it
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 12:45pm.Well, yeah
Submitted by emmettoconnell on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 4:14pm.It's troubling that the DNR website has pictures like this:
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:37pm.using that logic
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 01/03/2008 - 11:42pm.we're trying to
Submitted by Mike on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 12:11am.I have a lot of trouble going back out in the woods now because so many pretty places I once knew have been logged off. And even if it is done well, and the replanted trees take off in a way that warms the cockles of a forester's heart, the beauty and diversity and magic of an old growth forest does not come back for a long time.
I made a living for a few years walking in the old growth. It was beautiful, but my being there was part of the process that led to the disappearance of old growth and I don't think it was right livelihood. I don't think I thought it was right livelihood 25 years ago when I did it, but I had children that I loved who wanted to be fed and clothed, so I walked lines, and set cutting ribbons and bent roads to leave the grandfather trees out of the right of way when I could.
It's kind of like the Heisenberg principle or the moral of the movie "never cry wolf" the act of seeing these beautiful areas contributed their disappearance, so now I leave the wild places and the wild things alone. If I catch a glimpse of them, I look away. I don't think we are supposed to look long and hard at the wild.
My post above was satire, but I have heard that argument provided as the truth as some folks see it. I am conflicted about it.
clearcutting
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 2:20am.I wish we could change our practices so that our demand for forest products became so we could do the most minimally invasive selective harvesting of trees. One here one there, and the impact would be greatly lessened in comparison to clear cutting.
Agreed on harvest.
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 01/05/2008 - 10:29am.Have you watched "Never Cry Wolf" recently? I suggest that you watch it and think hard about the message at the end, where the wolf studier gives up the study, the staring long and hard at wilderness and nature, as he realizes that he need to be the wild person that he is, and to leave the other wild things alone, to let them go and not watch them go.
The message I get from watching that movie exceeds my ability to articulate. I think you will get that message in its depth if you watch it now and think again about your ideas about whether it's ok to stare long and hard at wilderness and nature.
Namaste, Rob.
And thanks to Isabelle for posting this here. Despite my satirical response, I think it's time to stop seeing forest as a commodity. There may be commodities that we can harvest from forests, but the harvest must be gentle enough that when we are done, the area still looks like forest.
Troubling???
Submitted by ladyisabelle on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 9:12am.I'm with you
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 12:42pm.Not to say a healthy living forest will prevent landslides. But I think it would be more effective at preventing landslides than stumps (even though they still have roots.)
A couple reasons might be that: Living roots are growing and have tendrils that will work to hold soil more effectively. The forest canopy also would help to lessen the degrading impact of heavy rains upon the soil.
Rooting Strength
Submitted by ladyisabelle on Fri, 01/04/2008 - 12:55pm.Storms outside the norm are becoming the norm.
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 01/05/2008 - 10:53am.Isabelle, I will direct your attention to this report by those environmental radicals at the World Bank. Here are some excerpts:
At some point, when we experience a "hundred year" rainfall/floold every ten years, this flood has to be recognized for what it truly is: a ten year rainfall/flood event. Failure to take changes in weather into account when planning land use puts us all at risk.
This report says the increasing incidence of storms of a certain level severity has increased about four fold in about forty years. This is just the storm severity, it is not the economic measure based on population growth in dangerous areas, simply nastier, more destructive storm. The global warming models predict this increasing weather severity. Droughts, freak snowfalls, heavy rainfalls, windstorms - these are all predicted by the global warming models.
Based on the global warming science, I will suggest that you are incorrect to state that this storm was a little out of the norm. I suspect this recent storm was the kind of storm that we will see every ten to twenty years now based on 1996 and 2007 storm events.
I hope that DNR will plan accordingly, but I am not optimistic that appropriate land-use plans can be developed if they mandate economic impacts related to lower forest harvesting. I also hope I am wrong about that.
A History of Storms
Submitted by ladyisabelle on Sat, 01/05/2008 - 11:41am.Out of the Norm
Submitted by ladyisabelle on Sat, 01/05/2008 - 12:13pm.Very strong storms in California today
Submitted by Mike on Sat, 01/05/2008 - 4:19pm.You can read about it here. Note that I said very strong storms, not very unusual storms. The CA storms happening are certainly very strong, very severe weather. They may or may not be unusual or out of the norm.
What if these kind of storms are now the norm due to global warming? That seems to be part of the point of the World Bank report.
As long as each disastrous weather is framed as unusual or outside the norm when there is good reason to think that increasing severe weather is now the norm, we are encouraged not to begin taking the steps that we need to take to tackle global warming, the mother of all problems as it was called in the recent movie "Everything's Cool."