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Submitted by Norm on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 4:07pm.
Well, not really a "run-in" but contact I suppose. So a couple of weekends ago I decide to drive down to my parents. It's an interesting little drive that includes I-5, hwy 8, 12, 101 and 6. I do it fairly often and actually enjoy the drive. This path requires me to drive through a handful of small towns, and a few of them have really great places to shop, so with this in mind, onto the story. I'm driving on the highway, by one of these little towns, and pass a cop facing the other direction. Immediately I get this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. I knew I had forgotten to renew my tabs, and this cop was going to be pulling me over. Sure enough, about 1/4 mile down the highway I see flashing lights and pull to the side. First things first, I pull over and put the car in park....then I remember that my drivers side window doesn't work. Lovely, that should make things easier, right? Also keep in mind, I have a firearm on my person ( I frequently go target shooting when I'm at my parents ), but decide to keep that to myself unless it comes up. The cop approaches the car, knocks on the window, and I open the door. He asks if my window is broken, and I say yes. He asks if I know why he's pulled me over. I tell him that I forgot to renew my tabs, and was waiting until I got paid to renew them. He asked for my drivers license and proof of insurance and then stops..... "Do you have a gun in the car?" he asks me. Hmmm, clairvoyant cops, that's interesting. I let him know that I indeed had a gun in the car. "Is it loaded?" he asks me, I replied, "Yes, it is." He then asks, "Where is it?". To which I reply, "In my shoulder holster, underneath my left arm.". At this point he appears to be sizing me up a bit. In preparation of this, I already had my wallet on the dash of my car, and my hands firmly on the wheel. I hear him chuckle a bit, and say, "Gotta love honesty." He asks for my pistol license, and I pick up my wallet and hand it to him. He goes back to his car with a parting statement, "Don't make any weird movements, ok?". He walks back to his car and I begin to wonder how likely a cop is to write a ticket to someone who just spooked him? He walks back to the car, hands me my info and tells me that the only reason he asked that is because of the rifle magazine I have sitting on the floor (Ooops! I had been to a gunshop about an hour before that) and I gave an answer he really wasn't expecting. He told me I should just up and spit it out if I have a weapon on me when I get pulled over (I've been given advice to the contrary) He asked me what I thought about the magazines (their department is planning on buying some for T and E) and we bs'd about guns for about 10 minutes before he told me to get the tabs as soon as I get paid, and to have a nice day. All in all, not a bad confrontation. I thought some of you may find the story interesting. I'm waiting for the first white man comment now.
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Hmm
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 4:29pm.I'm interested in what people think about cops letting people go without tickets. I used to get out of what would have been fairly sizable speeding tickets by flashing my military ID. I used to know a guy that drove on the freeway everyday to get to work and kept a WSP application on his passenger seat along with folded up American flag. He would tell him how he was just getting out of the military and wanted so badly to become a trooper and the ticket would really hurt his chances, etc. Anyhow, he never got tickets. Norm was given a pass because he shared an enthusiasm about guns with the officer.
I guess my big question is, is it OK that cops get to decide when to enforce the law? I think it's nice that they are able to look at a situation like Norm's, where he needed to wait until payday and had every intention of correcting the problem, and give some leniency, but I think that power also rears it's head in unfortunate ways. For instance, Norm's example of him being white. How would that small town cop have reacted in the same exact situation, but with Norm being Black or Mexican? I'm not trying to say that all cops are racist, so I hope nobody goes there. I'm merely wondering if cops having the power to selectively enforce the law is a good thing. There are without a doubt bad apples who take advantage of situations, and does this enable them to continue that?
is it OK that cops get to decide when to enforce the law?
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 4:32pm.I think so. It humanizes them and shows they're no different from any other human being.
"A point of view is only a view from a point..." ~ Unknown
I don't mean to sound insensitive,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 4:47pm.I think it creates too unequal of a power dynamic to allow cops to make the decision on their own.
This may shock you, but I did a bit of running around in my teenage years and my friend's dad was a cop. He was the third highest in the department. His son and myself were good friends and got into mischief. We never hurt anybody or destroyed any private property, but we did graffiti under the bridge, stayed out after curfew, got the cops called on us a lot and ran from them until we lost them (we always lost them). His dad knew all about everything we did, he would sometimes give us details about police reports, once I wore the same clothes out that I was wearing at his dinner table earlier and heard it from him the next day. His attitude was that we were kids having fun and because we weren't hurting anybody or destroying things he didn't come down on us. I got away with a lot of stuff that should have put me in juvie. Other kids I knew got caught for things and weren't as lucky, and I'm know some of their lives turned out a lot different than mine. Did I deserve to get away with the things I did just because I had a friend who was a cop? Did my other friends who went to juvie and ended up caught in the jail cycle deserve that? A compassionate cop gave me chances because he knew me. If he had known the other kids he probably would've noticed the same amount of potential in them that he saw in me.
So I certainly benefited from it, but I still can't bring myself to believe that it is just. Justice is blind. This is not, this is unequal application of the law.
I don't worry about it much Rob
Submitted by Norm on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 5:01pm.I'm not known among friends as being a huge offender.
I think officer discretion is a good thing. It humanizes police instead of turning them into heartless robots. I don't think that it's right for an officer to enforce a law based on race/color/religion etc. I can't say I blame them for choosing to enforce it when attitudes appear, and not enforce it when they work with someone who is pleasant. There are going to be bad apples, on both sides, who take advantage of the situation. I think that goes for everything in life. I would like to retain some level of humanity for officers. Doing everything "by the book", no exceptions, could go badly during civil disobedience events or domestic violence calls....I won't even go into riots.
Hmmm...
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 5:41pm.I always thought you were supposed to notify LEO's if you have a weapon when you are pulled over. I'm sure when they ran your plates something about your CPL came up...
Good stop.
"Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety."--Unknown
Maybe if they know their decisions are reviewable.
Submitted by wildleaf on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 7:12pm.I think that cops could have some discretion if they lived in the community where they worked, if the police department tried to fully represent the diversity of the population and if they had a citizen review board. ;) Andy Griffith knew everyone in Mayberry, didn't need to carry a gun because of it and made lots of independent judgment calls. Of course he doesn't really exist. However, if a cop is making judgment calls based on the welfare of the people involved then that is fine. If he is making judgment calls based on race, religion, sexual identity or gun ownership then that is bad. I think judging on the content of their character is reasonable. What makes a good character? That is interpretable.
The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com
Keep it consistent too.
Submitted by wildleaf on Sun, 02/24/2008 - 7:17pm.Plus there is something to local norms. Like one town might have historically been less inclined to prosecute for jaywalking and another town does. Local rules are up for regulation if they diverge so much from the state laws but for small things it might be cool.
The Black Car Project http://autovoid.blogspot.com
I was on a jury that a Lacey
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Mon, 02/25/2008 - 8:07am.I was pulled over for speeding four times in the past. The first two times I "yes sir'd" my way out of them, the last two times my yearly Geico rate became my quarterly Geico rate and I'm anal about cruise control now.
Of course I appreciated being let off, and I agree in theory with allowing officer discretion, but there should be some clear guidelines.
You might want to pack a toothbrush, people are going to come knocking, and people are going to jail, sooner rather than later.
Sheriff Dan Kimball, referring to videotaped rioters being identified.
To disclose or not disclose
Submitted by Sarah on Mon, 02/25/2008 - 1:50pm.I'm hoping our local LE blogger will chime in
Submitted by Norm on Mon, 02/25/2008 - 6:20pm.I was under the impression ( I could be wrong ) that there was no requirement to notify an officer if you are carrying a concealed pistol during a traffic stop. You are required to follow directions though, and the CPL states "....and shall display the same (license) upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so."
I was told (by a local deputy) to not volunteer it unless asked. Basically to keep the tension low. He also didn't think volunteering anything that isn't required to be a good idea.