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Submitted by jlw on Tue, 05/06/2008 - 8:51pm.
These images, which were created by the City of Olympia and a consultant in San Francisco to show what a rezone could do to the appearance of the isthmus, are not available online. Nor have they been published by the Olympian. So I had to scan the wrinkled old hard copy I got at the public forum at the Olympia Center of March 22, where maybe 100 very dismayed Olympians got a glimpse of the isthmus' future. I tried to get them from the City of Olympia -- at first they said they would post them when they got them from the consultant, then later they changed their minds and decided not to post them. Gee, I wonder why? (click on a picture to see a larger image)
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The Olympian published Triway's pictures today.
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 6:56am.If you are apeaking about
Submitted by wilson on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 8:10am.No, I'm not speaking about the Open House
Submitted by jlw on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 8:38am.I don't like the idea of the
Submitted by Chia on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 9:19am.Don't eat meat, ride a bike...that's how you can brake global warming, the head of the United Nation's Nobel Prize-winning scientific panel on climate change said...
There goes the neighborhood
Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 9:52am.Images are deceptive
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 10:29am.I think that you would be hard pressed to find someone who disagrees with the vision of increased housing and urban density. In order to be sustainable, this society NEEDS that. We need to do away with suburbs, and dense urban living is the answer.
But why build on the isthmus? Because that's where those with the money want the buildings - despite the negative consequences of building there for everyone else. The detrimental effect on the views of puget sound and the mountains should be enough to make this proposal dead on arrival.
Mixed use housing? I suppose with the affordable housing on the top floor with the best views, right??? HA!
Here's a more accurate view of the isthmus from Capitol Lake. The proposed developments will completely destroy views of the mountains from Capitol Lake:
Instead of building on the isthmus, do it somewhere else. And for starters, try this for an alternate vision of the isthmus: gradual reintroduction on native species and removal of current buildings, turn the isthmus into a natural (partial wilderness) area. I think of NY Central Park for the inspiration. (Though the Isthmus would be smaller) it could connect to parks on the East and West Bay.
God, I wish we could get rid of that ugly building
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 10:33am.What a beautiful photo!
Submitted by rainy gray on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 10:39am.An important distinction...
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 12:28pm.Although these proposed condos will range in price, there will be no quote-unquote affordable housing here. Mixed-income housing has a concrete definition that includes different incomes relative to the area median income (anyone have the actual definition lying around?), and includes restrictions on percentages of the housing that are leased to/bought by folks from the various income levels. For example, a mixed-income apartment building could have six units for "other low-income" folks (NOT very-low or extremely-low income) and the rest market-rate. In that case, six units would be reserved for people who meet the criteria (in Thurston County, that's a household that makes up to $52,900/year--the units would cost $1324/month). The rest would be priced according to what the market could bear.
I think you mean mixed-use, in which some area of the building is set aside for retail or office space, or some other non-housing use. Usually, the first one or two floors are reserved for this, since they are more accessible to the public. In this case, I think they're talking about two floors of retail space. Unfortunately, the only retailers who can afford to lease space in new construction are those with a lot of capital and flexibility; generally, this is not the case for locally-owned small businesses. So, we are probably talking about bringing in national chain businesses, at least in the first decade or so until the building is worth less relative to everything else in downtown. Which means, oddly enough, that we are talking about bringing in outside business whose dollars flow to headquarters far from Olympia and who will compete directly with our local businesses, in order to "revitalize" downtown, in order to support local business. Weird, huh? Somebody should invent "systems thinking" so we can get our heads screwed on straight, finally. Again, sheesh.
mixed-use / mixed-income / affordable housing
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 3:39pm.Well yes - I meant to say affordable housing, not "mixed use." But alas, I was going to fast, as is often the case.
If there is any attempt to make affordable housing units in the new development (perhaps, hm, as a face saving measure) then it would be hard to imagine the unites being installed in a desirable location within the new developments.
well,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 3:42pm.condos on the isthmus
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 3:48pm.To be contrarian...
Submitted by Matthew Green on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 3:00pm.C'mon, these images are not THAT bad. Scenario B is a bit too high, perhaps, but even Scenario C is just a visual extension of the rest of downtown.
Note that these images show only blank boxes, not actual buildings. Real buildings would have at least some design elements -- though, as someone mentioned, they would not necessarily look like the buildings Tri Vo displayed. With actual buildings, the view from Seven Oars Park would be almost unchanged, because they would blend into the buildings behind them.
And will someone explain to me, why is it so important to be able to see a tiny slice of Budd Inlet from the Capitol, if you can still see the Olympics and Capitol Lake? And why is it important to be able to see the Olympics from most anywhere in Heritage Park, when even the existing one-story buildings block much of the view already, and when one can easily walk from the park to Percival Landing or the 4th Ave Bridge to see great views? Seriously, someone explain this to me.
Right now, the isthmus is an abandoned wasteland. Something desperately needs to be done with it -- either clear it off completely to make it a park, or build something on it. Unless someone has millions upon millions of dollars for the former, it's going to be the private sector that does the latter.
If something is built, then yes, it absolutely needs to address issues of affordable housing, mixed used, good design, gentrification, and so on. Or to be precise, the city council needs to further improve city development codes so that the developer MUST address these issues.
But assuming a development does address those issues properly, then what's wrong with the very existence of buildings on the isthmus?
Matthew
public v. private
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 3:45pm.Why can't we have a public works project to develop the isthmus into a natural park / wilderness preserve?
I have a vision for a natural area on the isthmus that would serve the important purposes of recreation, and education (education in regard to the importance of wilderness in providing for and maintaining a high standard of living - i.e. if we kill the wilderness we kill our standard of living and indeed perhaps ourselves.)
We need dense urban housing. We need it to counteract the destruction caused by suburbia. But the isthmus is just not the right place for housing (or any further development)!
The views of Budd Bay, Puget Sound and the Olympic Mountains are a public asset. If buildings are developed that block the public view, then a real injustice and a disservice will have been done to the public.
It is all too difficult for people (especially those of modest means) to access wilderness in their daily lives (and otherwise). Thusly, there is an important mission, and a service, to bring the wilderness to the people, and to maintain views of that wilderness where it currently exists (i.e. views of the Olympic Mountain Range from Downtown Olympia {on the isthmus.})
I'm sure others can say it more effectively and add to that.
I enjoy the view of the
Submitted by Chia on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:07pm.Don't eat meat, ride a bike...that's how you can brake global warming, the head of the United Nation's Nobel Prize-winning scientific panel on climate change said...
I enjoy the View Also
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:51pm.Natural beauty is an extremely important aspect of the health and well-being of the community. We are all much more environmentally sensitive than some of us might believe. Truly, we are like sponges (to varying degrees) that pick up and resonate the atmosphere and environment in which we live. It is of essential importance that we look out for the preservation of our natural environment, and that we work toward the restoration of our natural environment wherever possible.
We can bring the wilderness back. We can bring it home. We can improve the environment and the natural physical characteristics of this community. We are the people.
The hard, cold reality...
Submitted by Matthew Green on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 7:01pm....is that a park on the isthmus is not going to happen. Ever. At least not in our lifetimes.
I'm thinking about the time and effort and money that was required to buy the West Bay port property to turn it into a park. And it's not even fully developed as a park yet.
Then multiply that time and effort and money by about...oh, fifty or so. That's what it would take. Because the West Bay property was empty industrial land farther from downtown owned by a public agency that wanted out. The isthmus, in contrast, is partially developed commercial property close to the heart of downtown owned by a bunch of private landowners who are looking to maximize their financial return.
Sorry.
Matthew
ooh,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:13pm.isthmus park open to campers
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:46pm.I think that, of necessity and due to societal requirements for equitable treatment of all human beings, there will be a camping area as part of the "park."
Do you see this as being a more-or-less semi-permanent encampment for those who are otherwise house-less? Or would this be more along the lines of recreational camping?
What we need to do is create a local economy that is capable of accommodating the meaningful employment needs of everyone. Once everyone is fully and meaningfully employed in "good" jobs, then the issue of permanent encampments for the "houseless" amongst society might be moot. However, there may be those who prefer living in tents (for whatever reason), and I think that society must be open to that reality as well.
I agree with Chia
Submitted by rainy gray on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:17pm.Yes, natural beauty must be preserved
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 4:56pm.It's interconnected. The beauty of nature, of the views of Puget Sound from Capitol Lake become part of the beauty of ourselves. We can open ourselves up to the beauty that exists in the world and allow it to beautify ourselves.
We have a duty to preserve and maintain the natural beauty and wonder of the planet for the benefit of future generations. They're depending on us.
I like views too.
Submitted by Matthew Green on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 7:11pm.I just honestly don't see how buildings on the isthmus would have any significant effect on views from, for example, the Capitol Campus.
The switchback trail will still be there. Capitol Lake will still be there. The Olympic Mountains will still be there -- and visible from the Capitol Campus in every development scenario. Rich and poor alike would be able to climb the trail and enjoy the views.
The only changes: The existing buildings would be replaced by new buildings, and the view of a very skinny portion of Budd Inlet would be blocked. I don't think that fundamentally changes anything.
If the area were pristine or nearly pristine wilderness, or if the isthmus was already a park, then buildings would have a relatively great -- even huge -- impact. But right now the isthmus is a developed commercial area, so a couple new buildings would have relatively little impact.
Matthew
It makes a difference to me
Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 12:58pm.And I am sure that I am not alone.
For one, it's a matter of principle. Those views are a public asset, and to put up more buildings to block them would be a slap in the face to all people who can't afford to live in them.
Second, it flies in the face of an alternate vision for the isthmus area of downtown - what I believe is a better vision: to develop the area into a natural / wilderness area in the best spirit of public lands for the purpose of recreation, ecological health, stability and sustainability; and education about the need for wilderness and the harm and destruction that our society is committing upon the wilderness.
bert
?
Submitted by Meta Hogan on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 5:02pm.This project addresses one real issue (urban density), which I think we can all agree on, and one semi-real issue (rich shoppers), which I think is still up for debate as to its effectiveness and/or necessity. Given that small amount of benefit, how can you justify the many negative consequences of the project? As I mentioned, negative impact on local businesses (although that might be counterbalanced by increased consumption by upper-income residents of the condos, but if you own a million-dollar condo, are you really going to eat at Old School, the Reef, Le Voyeur, the Clubside, etc.? Are you going to spend hundreds of dollars at downtown's shops? the target consumers of downtown Oly are not millionaires. sorry.). Increased traffic in an area where the council is really trying to improve walkability/bikability. The loss of views. The environmental impact. The possibility that the housing market won't support it. The possibility of shoddy construction and/or lack of developer accountability (someone else mentioned Cooper Crest?). The apparent blithe disregard for the city staff's own sea level rise predictions. I'd like to be able to address all of these things without being accused of being a member of the clandestine "Carnage Group", without being called an anti-growth whiner, without hearing shouts about greeners/activists/leftys trying to ruin the city. So, can we talk about these things? Or is it a clear growth/no-growth argument?
EDIT: this is in response to Matthew--not sure if that's clear
Landfill?
Submitted by Bauermeister on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 5:54pm.I see these new buildings as
Submitted by Just another voice on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 7:31pm.I think new buildings downtown and on our waterfront will enhance the beauty of Olympia. It will provide infill, and new streetscapes that will provide greater identity to our core.
And to everyone saying it is just bringing "yuppies" downtown and condos-- so what! That doesn't mean you won't be enjoying the stores that will be on street level.
A spurt of life in our core might do us good. It is working in Bellingham, which is like Olympia in so many ways. They just finished several projects, and are now starting a large low-income housing building in downtown. And it wouldn't have happened unless expensive condos started popping up and breathing life into parts of town that were once just vacant lots.
But I am Just Another Voice
I'm all for filling vacant
Submitted by Chia on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 8:08am.Don't eat meat, ride a bike...that's how you can brake global warming, the head of the United Nation's Nobel Prize-winning scientific panel on climate change said...
But why are the lots vacant?!?
Submitted by Bauermeister on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 9:04am.There is an 800Lb gorilla lurking
Submitted by Laurian on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 5:57am.at the fringes of this debate called the State of Washington.
The Capitol Facilities committee (I think I got the name wrong) has announced it has an interest in the project but is refraining from comment for the time being. This is the group that directed the GAO to develop the multi-million Heritage park, an element of the Olmsted plan fof the capitol campus.
The second element is the Shorelines Management act which must approve the project before it goes ahead.
The Olmsted vision of the capitol campus includes views of the Temple of justice and the Capitol dome from the water.
Olympia may not have the money to buy the isthmus but the state can muster that kind of financial heft.
This is pure speculation but the whole Larinda Passage proposal seems to have an awful lot stacked against it including popular opinion, zoning issues, and let us not forget the market. Could Tri Vo be using Larinda as leverage for concessions he could export to other projects? Cue sinister music
I read in the Olympian that
Submitted by jlw on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 7:10am.