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Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 11:52am.
Is Bush using his recent big talk about immigration and borders to keep us distracted? This blog BAGnewsNotes is worth checking out for many reasons, including ongoing collective discussion of news images. "De-fence of Liberty" is on the plate right now. About immigration and borders and propaganda. Speaking of propaganda, check this horror out: We Need a Fence.
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Those against strict enforcem
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 12:02pm.The idea isn't far-fetched and is not new, though. For anyone who has seen "Red Dawn," the entire premise is based on communist forces entering the United States through the U.S.-Mexican border over the course of many years.
Violent people can enter the
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 3:00pm.Violent people can enter the U.S. legally though. People can plot, form cells, organize.
Isn't the issue of violence separate from keeping non-citizens out? Or are most non-citizens intent on doing us harm?
You're exactly right.So, woul
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 5:01pm.So, wouldn't your above description be a reason to push for legal immigration?
Have you been to Southern California lately?
I'm thinking on your first qu
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 6:09pm.As for second, haven't been to SoCal since 1985 or so. My guess is your question has some more thoughts behind it, tell me more.
It's not thought, simply obse
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 6:17pm.In order to receive an education similar to that of which we receive in a Washington state public education, more often than not one has to attend a private school in Southern California. The public school system them is a disaster.
The same can be said for a visit to the hospital.
You really should make a return trip to SoCal. It will blow your mind away. The problems we talk about regarding Olympia don't even begin to scratch the surface of what's going on down there.
Are only immigrants to blame?
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 6:30pm.A related thought, what if drugs were legalized? Wouldn't that clear up a lot of violence, in SoCal and elsewhere?
I listened to an interview with former police chief Norm Stamper, on KUOW today, he makes a compelling case for legalization.
No, illegal immigrants are no
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 6:41pm.I would think a pro-union person as yourself would be against illegal immigration.
How would you feel knowing the fire department and police department were doing cocaine on a regular basis? Your pediatrician?
It's one thing to make a case for marijuana to be regulated. Most Americans, at one point or another, have tried it and still been functional, contributing members of society. The vast majority used during their high school and college years but, once they entered the workforce, gave it up (of course, the middle and upper-classes abuse prescription medication but that's another story).
Now, I don't know about you but I have yet to meet anyone who regularly used cocaine and managed to keep it under control. Meth? Not a chance. I'm all for the individual to make their own decision but there has to be some semblence of sanity.
I don't know that I am for or
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 7:01pm.Is increased militarization of the border the answer? What about those detention facilities, out in remote places?
Why can't the US - Mexico border be handled just like the US - Canada one?
As for drugs, I believe taking a health perspective rather than a criminal one is the best way to go. Legalizing and standardizing drugs means less deaths. More ability to get people into treatment who want it. Wouldn't the level of violence in our country go down?
This group, The Florence Immigrant and Refugee Rights Project is worth looking over, gives us more to chew on in this discussion.
Of course "less death, less d
Submitted by The Fire Inside on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 8:05pm.I have no children and don't know whether you do or not. If your child is continually doing something wrong, do you simply lift that standard, since there's no point in enforcing it, or do you continue to enforce the rules (laws) which you have established?
Sarah: More ability to get people into treatment who want it.
The Fire: So by pushing for the legalization/regulation of narcotics, I assume you're not advocating the individual should have a right to make their own decision but rather an angle that, by legalizing/regulating, more money can be spent on treatment.
I completely disagree that if people are making poor decisions we should simply legalize the practice and throw money at the problem. It's not my job, nor should it be the job of anyone else, to pay for poor decision-making.
I weigh the situation two ways: I try to balance the ability and the right for the individual to make their own decision versus keeping society productive.
Sarah: Is increased militarization of the border the answer? What about those detention facilities, out in remote places?
The Fire: The "militarization" of the current border is a joke. In fact, it's far from the idea I have in mind.
I envision the National Guard patrolling the border both to the south and the north. Those caught would be immediately deported to their home country. If caught again they would face severe punishment in the form of military facilities located on the border. A third time would result in incarceration for an indefinate amount of time.
At the same time I would also revamp the immigration process to ensure that those who apply legally and are eligible can get into this country in a far more timely manner than what is currently taking place. It's incredible the amount of red tape which people must jump through to get into this country.
Don't mistake my being harsh for being unsympathetic. If the situation were to be reversed I would be attempting to cross the border, one way or the other. In fact, my bloodline is not far removed from coming through the southern border, from Mexico. So I am well-aware that legal immigration can and does work.
Sarah: Why can't the US-Mexico border be handled just like the US-Canada one?
The Fire: Currently the reason for the difference has nothing to do with the color of your skin and everything to do with quality of life in each country. A person crossing the border from Canada (and we're assuming is a Canadian citizen), is far more likely to return home after their visit to the US than a Mexican citizen.
The reason isn't too difficult to figure out. All you need to do is go to a border town in Canada and then one in Mexico.
With that said, I think your question should be reversed into: Why can't the Canadian border be treated like the Mexican border?
That is what I ask myself.
Lots of good stuff to think o
Submitted by Sarah on Wed, 11/30/2005 - 9:22pm.I agree with you on revamping the current legal immigration process for those eligible.
As for illegal, I haven't yet worked out what I would propose to do differently, I would want it somehow to be common sense and humane. I know those terms need to be defined, so far all I have on it is that there would be less death and less demonization of people who are illegal aliens.
I believe the difference between border enforcements has everything to do with racism and scapegoating. I also take into consideration the maquildoras, foreign owned assembly plants in Mexico, where workers are treated like shit.
I do have a son, and your equating a surrender parenting style with my thoughts on immigration doesn't work, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to explain this better.
As for drugs, I'm not saying we should toss money at the problem, I am not saying this is what we should do because we are giving up. My focus is on seeing drug use, and alcohol use, as a public health matter. Not as a criminal matter. Why not regulate drugs as we do alcohol?