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Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 12/24/2005 - 12:29pm.
Authorities throw out residents of homeless camp near Capitol Lake

The Olympian - Police evicted four residents of a small tent city along Deschutes Parkway on Friday morning. In the spirit of the holidays, they didn’t arrest them.

–Jesus is never going to return if we keep treating one another this way–

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Rob, this event and events li

Rob, this event and events like this has nothing to do with Jesus' return. Given what you have said on this blog in the past, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry for his return, it won't be pretty for you. But it's not too late to be saved. I'll pray for that to happen for you.

I would agree this was bad timing on the eviction. They have been living there for quite awhile. They could have waited a few days. For WSP to do something a politically negative as this surprises me.

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I often wonder why Christians

I often wonder why Christians wear crosses, a symbol of suffering, as opposed to fishes, a symbol of love.

I appreciate your sentiments, they seem truly Christian in nature. I just don't believe in heaven and hell and revelations. I think when you die, you die, and that's it. I think about these things quite a bit, because if I'm wrong, well, we all know where I'm headed. I don't think I'm wrong though.

The manner in which I live my life and the values that I hold dear would be mistaken for Christian any day of the week. I seldom break a commandment, I actively participate in acts of mercy and love.

I don't go to church, I don't pray, I don't worship. I don't believe any of that is necessary. I believe in doing not saying. Man created the church, man wrote the bible, and then changed it numerous times. The Church of England was created so that the King could get a divorce. More killing has been done in the name of a church than any other reason. I can't be bothered with that, there is too much I want to do in my life. I am spiritual person, I just can't buy into organized religion. I would rather live as an example than have my values politicized.

In your eyes, if I live my life to it's final days, always keeping my values in mind and living my life in love, will Jesus leave me here with Satan? Is he so vain a god that he will leave me behind merely because I won't bow to him? Does a person's life mean nothing, and only the content of his professed faith decides his fate?

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RR, The reason Christians

RR,

The reason Christians wear crosses are a reminder of the sin debit that was paid for us in full by Christ. Without his suffering for us, it would be our suffering to endure. And for that reason the cross is a symbol of love at a very high level.

I support your right to believe how you want to believe. In-fact God supports your right to believe how you want to believe, it’s called free will.

As far as what happens at death, this is God’s pond and you play by his rules. We all know them or have the ability to learn them. If we chose not to live by his rules, then we can’t say we didn’t know. God created us for his pleasure. But he wants us to come to him voluntarily, not by force or coercion. God is perfect, heaven is perfect, and imperfect humans don’t get into his heaven. The wages of sin is death, fuel rod, fire dancer. But by accepting Christ into your life, you are guaranteed your ticket to heaven. Now if you don’t accept Christ, you are on your own in front of God on Judgement Day. You have no one there to mediate (for the lack of a better description) on your behalf. You might make it on your own. As for me, I don’t want to chance it.

You see, if I’m wrong and you’re right about God/Christ, then hopefully I will have lived a better life and at death I will be just worm food. But if you’re wrong and I’m right, you will have the agony of Hell to suffer for all eternity.

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I'm not afraid of death. The

I'm not afraid of death. There is a need for (the idea) heaven because people are afraid of death, and have to believe that there is a reward for living a good life. To me, living a good life is it's own reward. I don't need a carrot, just being alive and treating others with dignity is enough for me.

I'm pretty sure your answer to this will be faith, but what makes you so sure you're right? There are many religions, and people that have just as much, maybe more, faith than you do. What makes you so sure you chose wisely?

Another question, don't you think that if you grew up in a Muslim dominated culture you'd be Muslim right now? Would you rebel against Islam and move away to a Christian society? I think the honest answer is that you would be a devout Muslim. So then, I ask again, what makes you so sure you "chose" the right religion?

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DD: If we chose not to live b

DD: If we chose not to live by his rules, then we can’t say we didn’t know.

His rule according to who? Or which sacred book? And then, which version of that sacred book? And then, which interpretation of that version of the sacred book? And specifically, which religious sect? I am not asking a rhetorical question here or trying to debate or argue or being hostile, I am really curious what brand of Christianity you are being so evangelical about. OlyBlog is dedicated to listening and discussing. Under what scope of beliefs, and, just as importantly, deeds, would guarantee us a ticket into heaven? And what makes this set of beliefs different than the thousands of other faiths out there?

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RR says--I'm not afraid of de

RR says--I'm not afraid of death. There is a need for (the idea) heaven because people are afraid of death, and have to believe that there is a reward for living a good life. To me, living a good life is it's own reward. I don't need a carrot, just being alive and treating others with dignity is enough for me.

DD says--I’m not afraid of death either. But you need to be afraid of the after life if you go the wrong way, it won’t be pretty for you if you head south. I would agree living a good life is a good reward. You may get more or less than you are planning on though at the end.

RR says--I'm pretty sure your answer to this will be faith, but what makes you so sure you're right? There are many religions, and people that have just as much, maybe more, faith than you do. What makes you so sure you chose wisely?

DD says--I was a skeptic too at one point, perhaps nearly as much of one as you. But I did my research, and even those with purely scientific minds, I like science, will be convinced Christianity is the way if you take the time to do the research. My father is a humanist, like some of you here, and my mother is a Christian. Neither perspective was pushed on me, but I was exposed to both. I was closer to a humanist until 1993 than a Christian. I asked some of the same questions, and made some of the same statements as are made here with you, stevenl and others. The answers are there for you. But neither of you, or other non-believers here really want to know what the answers are, you mearly want to debate the topic from your point of view.

RR says--Another question, don't you think that if you grew up in a Muslim dominated culture you'd be Muslim right now? Would you rebel against Islam and move away to a Christian society? I think the honest answer is that you would be a devout Muslim. So then, I ask again, what makes you so sure you "chose" the right religion?

DD says--No, I wouldn’t be a devout Muslim after I had done my research. I might have been prior to research, but not after. Because the answer would be the same if discovered by a humanist or a muslim.

Stevenl says--His rule according to who? Or which sacred book? And then, which version of that sacred book? And then, which interpretation of that version of the sacred book? And specifically, which religious sect? I am not asking a rhetorical question here or trying to debate or argue or being hostile, I am really curious what brand of Christianity you are being so evangelical about. OlyBlog is dedicated to listening and discussing. Under what scope of beliefs, and, just as importantly, deeds, would guarantee us a ticket into heaven? And what makes this set of beliefs different than the thousands of other faiths out there?

DD—says, like I said above, the answers to your questions are out there. If you truly want to know the answers, seek them out.

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Could you give us your defini

Could you give us your definition of a "nonbeliever"? Are all Christians "believers" or only certain sects? I'm still trying to get a handle on where you're coming from. Your previous answer didn't really address my question. I'm not trying to trap or debate you, really. You have made some very strong statements here in OlyBlog, and I am curious what doctrine you have subscribed to.
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I can't speak for anyone else

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I ask you these questions is not to prove you wrong or win some debate. I couldn't care less about being right. I ask you these questions because I seek wisdom and I want to hear more about things from your viewpoint.
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Ok RR, lets do it one questio

Ok RR, lets do it one question at a time. The responses might be lengthy and since my typing skills aren't the best, one at a time might work.
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Where did your research take

Where did your research take you and what was the tipping point at which you decided on Christianity?
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I hope people realize belief

I hope people realize belief is just that: belief. Whether we believe it's lights-out after death or whether there's a deity, we're all relying on faith.
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RR says--Where did your resea

RR says--Where did your research take you and what was the tipping point at which you decided on Christianity?

DD says--I discounted the pagan religions at the outset, long story and don’t feel like going into it, just know I think they are wrong. I couldn’t buy the stuff professed in Hinduism and offshoots of that. I then focused on the religions that are monothesistic, Christian Judism and islam. All three have their genesis from the same ‘God’. Islam breaks away from Judism, with Abraham’s bastard son, Ishmel. Judism and Christanity continues with Abraham’s other son, Isaac. Then comes Jesus. It’s a known fact even in the secular world he was a real person, and even Islam acknowledges he was a sinless man. So the question is was he God in the flesh. I believe he is. Different topic as to the reasons, but bible prophecy being fullfilled in the past and currently is one of the hinge pins for me. Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah we do.

Islam is a religion of hate. Mohammed “their great prophet

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I agree with DD in that, I do

I agree with DD in that, I don't subscribe to a Church, either.

I'm definately in the camp that, so long as you have the Bible, you're going to do alright.

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If all three religions have t

If all three religions have their genesis from the same god, then the same god is being worshipped, I don't understand why Jews and Muslims are going to hell because they believe the story is a little different than you do. I would think that the point is faith in god, not which man-made story one believes.

There is a documentary out that I have yet to see but have done some reading on. It is titled "The God Who Wasn't There". It talks about the christ story, specifically how, long before the time of the bible, the story, from virgin birth, visits by wise men, death from a tree or cross, resurecting in three days, to rising to the heavens, had been told in different parts of the world. The christ story fits almost perfectly into the "hero story" mold. Also of note, the filmaker is a former fundamentalist christian who did a lot of research and changed his mind.

Do you think it's possible that, in order to inspire people to have faith, early Christians developed the Christ-story out of many heroic stories? Would it make it any less meaningful? This would not differ much from Greek or Roman mythology, which also has fantastic stories.

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There are a number of stories

There are a number of stories which appear in the Bible and have similar counterparts in other portions of history. Speaking from a non-religious standpoint, I would agree in that, how do we know which one is the "right" one?

Speaking from a religious standpoint, one has faith their belief is correct. I think there's evidence which goes against Christianity (and for that matter, Judaism and Islam) while at the same time there's evidence lending support. I suppose that's why it's such a debate among people: There's nothing to completely prove or disprove and there's simply no way of knowing until we each meet our demise.

One thousand years ago people were having a similar discussion and it wasn't solved. In another thousand years, who knows?

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This is precisely why I didn'

This is precisely why I didn't want to get into discussing this here. This is a multi-faceted discussion, much easier to do face to face. It will be laborious to do this in a blog.

There are answers to all your questions, logical and non-faith based, (scientific). But it takes too long to discuss here. If you truly want to gain wisdom like you mentioned above, then do the research yourself. If not, that's cool too. But I have no interest to discuss this topic in depth here. Skim the surface, perhaps.

As far as conversions, there are many that have gone from skeptic or non-believer to hardcore believers (scientists, etc.). True there is no smoking gun to point to on either side. But like I said earlier, if you are wrong and I'm right, it will suck to be you.

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