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An observation

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 9:18am.

During a meeting yesterday, I mentioned Olyblog. I got a rather sour look from one of the other people in the meeting, so I asked why.

The response was that "Olyblog has been taken over by the port protestors".

As I look at the recent posts in Olyblog, I don't see a whole lot about the protests. I do see the daily Rant of the Right in The Olympian - latest is trying to attack people in the area of their employment (can you imagine that???) because of their viewpoint, when neither item is related to the other.

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Citizen journalism...

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 9:42am.

...is a difficult concept to communicate to people. In this country, we're so used to thinking of journalism as something we consume, rather than something we engage in and produce. Most people also buy into the notion that journalism should be "objective." I've come to think that objective journalism is a dangerous concept. Our experience over the last 7-8 years has shown how vulnerable objective media is to being gamed by powerful interests. However, when journalism is "biased" (for lack of a better word), at least there is a baseline of honesty about motives and intentions. It also forces an individual to read more widely in order to get all the different viewpoints on an issue.

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

I'll go a step further than Rick

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 12:43pm.

and say that there is simply no such thing as objectivity, at least not anymore. I feel it is an unreachable goal. It is a rock we cling to after having fallen from a cliff. Not that we shouldn't attempt it, but we shouldn't be so caught up in it that we lose ourselves and forget the path while thinking about the destination.

Oh, Rick, you should pick up the latest copy of AdBusters. It's dedicated to journalism, and is a great read.

Thanks, I will.

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 2:19pm.

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

The search for objectivity should not be abandoned

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 3:04pm.

just because it is difficult or nigh impossible to perfect or because it has been abandoned by much of the mainstream media over the past seven years. A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for after all? That said, objectivity isn't for everyone, nor should it be, but it makes one a better journalist I think. The more objective you are, the more likely you will notice important things outside your own echo chamber. I think that's an important role for journalism and it's why journalists failed us in the lead up to the Iraq war.

Oh, and I don't confuse objectivity with the current practice of providing "both sides" of the story. That crap is why journalism is in the sorry state it's in today. It gives too much credibiity to the noise machines on either side of an issue.

Agreed.

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 3:51pm.

Objectivity is important on an individual level. Each journalist has to look to their own conscience in reporting what they see, and not making shit up. But at a systemic level, the strict adherence to objectivity is a near total disaster as far as I can tell. I'd much prefer the European model where each paper has its bias, and that is factored in by the readership. This forces the readers to not take anything for granted -- they become the arbiter of what is true and real, not the newspaper reporter or editor. I think that this will be the model pretty soon in this country, largely due to Fox News. The other networks will soon get it that they have to stake out some territory and defend it. I think this works better at a systemic level for the same reason that courts work -- a more accurate rendering of "truth" comes out of an adversarial process. This is one of the positive features of conflict, which is usually not so desirable as a rule.

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

I think

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 4:06pm.

you guys are using the word objectivity when you should be using the word ethics, or journalistic ethics. I think ethics is a tangible goal that can be quantified and reached. I think objectivity is a pie in the sky. Objectivity, in my opinion, is just not a quantifiable goal, it's relative to who you are and what you've experienced. In this, by the way, I'm assuming the definition of objectivity you are both using is 'neutral point of view'. We should maybe define our terms before we go to much further.

I simply mean objectivity (adopting a neutral point of view)

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 4:22pm.

makes you a better journalist. By "better," I mean less likely to be blinded by your own biases. Just because it may not be possible to be perfeclty biased, does not mean one should not take their best shot at being so. I am not perfectly civil, but I think it's still worth trying. Advocacy journalism is a different ball of wax.

I'm not sure if it's advocacy...

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 4:55pm.

...or just being upfront about one's world view and assumptions. For example, if we had a major media company to counter-balance the noise from Fox, I think we'd have a much better conversation about policy and politics. As it is now, we just have Fox doing its thing unchecked (except by Obermann -- thank god), while the other channels stand around and look at the floor. But what if CBS stepped up and said, "You know what? We're tired of hearing that anyone with a liberal idea in their head is a traitor and that criticizing the war is sedition. We're going to provide content that affirms important American values like civil liberties, social justice, equality and diversity." I think they'd have a market (especially in the present political climate).

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

Absolutely, I think we need beter institutional voices

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 5:03pm.

for progress. And Olbermann's popularity clearly shows there is a market for it. Unfortunately folks are still pretty gun shy about being labeled leftist, liberal elites. It's a strange form of right wing voodoo at work here.

Blinded by our own biases?

Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Tue, 11/27/2007 - 8:00pm.

I just totally disagree, at least sometimes. Sometimes your biases help you see better -- ya know, in a leap of faith kind of way. And I'm such an advocate of bias, that I do believe it is possibly to be perfectly biased. We're ALL perfectly biased, man.

What Stories Get Covered?

Submitted by Mike on Wed, 11/28/2007 - 7:17am.

Even if people engage in good, ethical, objective journalism, there is a political frame in terms of what stories get coverage or get reported. That is where objectivity goes out the window. If Olyblog only covered stories and allowed discussion on peace and justice issues that are dear to the heart of progressives, the content might be consistently highly ethical journalism, but the impact of the medium would not be objective.

And that is one of the problems with mainstream media, even when the journalism is ethical, the facts reported are true, and there is no editorial slant to what are presented as journalism, if the range of content runs from middle right to far right politically then the presentation is not an objective, ethical, authentic presentation of the social milieu we live in.

Yes.

Submitted by Rick on Wed, 11/28/2007 - 8:24am.

This is similar to what I was trying to say. If there were more outlets that looked at journalism as an inherently political activity, we'd get a broader range of issues covered.

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

The Internet already ensures that

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 11/28/2007 - 12:01pm.

EVERY issue gets covered. And with folks like Matt Drudge around...

Back in the last Clinton administration, during Lewinsky, for instance, which I had to break on the internet, because the other people wouldn’t. If we’re again faced with a corporations [sic] who don’t want to report real news, the internet will play a very valuable role in the underground, catching real stories that are in spite. [sic]

...we'll have no shortage of inherently political "real news" delivered to our browsers. Sure, let a hundred flowers bloom. But the Christian Science Monitor will still be a better news source than FOX News or the New York Post. And that's because the Monitor is not only well edited, but reasonably objective. I don't buy the proposition that objective journalism is in any way dangerous. Pretending to be objective, like Fox News, is another matter.

Or like the NYT?

Submitted by Rick on Wed, 11/28/2007 - 3:04pm.

...a la Judith Miller?

> Say something interesting or say nothing at all. <

And as a result

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 11/28/2007 - 3:48pm.

the NYT lost a lot of its credibility and reputation is a valuable asset. I don't know if Miller was biased or just a star-stuck victim of her entanglements with the Whitehouse. But I can see why people would like journalists to be blatantly political so their motives may be more easily discerned.

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