User login

Who's online

There are currently 2 users and 20 guests online.

Online users

  • Dylan Carlson
  • The Fire Inside

Support OlyBlog

OlyBlog is run by volunteers who care about Olympia. If you like what we're doing, make a donation:

OlyBlog is powered by:

Who's new

  • bobschwenkler
  • talltrees
  • Toni Holm
  • wehrland
  • reggie.ventura

    Creative Commons License
 
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 12/16/2007 - 11:07pm.

Had a dinner at Old School today starting at 5pm, I reserved the back room, figured about 6-8 people.

We had dang near 20 people openly wearing sidearms crowding Old School and eating pizza. I somehow forgot to mention the size of a "small" pizza to my friends :-)

We spent about 3 hours chatting, and having a good time. Nobody had any problems or issues with us, and I'm pretty sure that 20 people openly carrying were noticed. When we were all getting ready to leave, we chatted with with a couple of guys playing video games about OC.

Drew Hendricks showed up as well, and had a good time talking and exchanging information.

It was quite a rush to have 20 people show up as a show of solidarity against the OPD's harassing actions.

»

You should get them to show

You should get them to show up and speak about OC at a council meeting. You should at least share your experience on the public record. People will have to leave their guns at home, or in their vehicles, city hall is a weapon free zone (except for the cops of course).
»

Actually I can carry in City Hall

RCW 9.41.300 Weapons in Prohibited Places reads in part (I copied this verbatim from the OPD training directive on OC)

(1) It is unlawful for a person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly posses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(a)...restricted areas of a jail or law enforcement facilities

(b)... areas of any building used in conjunction with court procedings...

(c)... restricted access areas of a public mental health facility...

(d)... portions of an establishment designated by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty one years of age...

(e)... restricted areas of a commercial service airport...

 City Hall is NOT off limits, and to declare such as off limits to lawfully carried firearms is a violation of state preemption laws.

Futhermore, I have no need to testify to the City Council about OC, as they are powerless to enact any laws that affect my ability or any other person's ability to lawfully carry a firearm.  State preemption again. 

 

»

well,

I was thinking you could talk to them about the behavior of the OPD. The other OC folks could talk about how they are treated by cops where they are from in comparison.

Oh, and you're right, the metal detector and no gun signs are only up for court, not council meetings.

»

Talked with Mayor Foutch

and he was about as helpful as can be expected from a lame duck, who holds a neutered job title.  All of my emails have gone out to the entire council, and nobody has seen fit to discuss it with me.  Manager Hall doesn't bother writing back either.  I am going to get a meeting with the OPD, and am going to call a well known attorney Monday. 

I'm sick of this crap.  The OPD will have to learn to deal with citizens who lawfully carry arms.  

I was told by a couple of people they saw several unmarked cars driving around Old School for a bit.  :-)  What a shame, I specifically invited the OPD to send someone to the meeting.  They could have had some nice hot pizza.

 

»

You definately SHOULD testify at city hall

They need to do something about their police force.
»

I'm working on it

I have set a few things in motion I have to let them play out before I take the next steps.

»

You should make Old School a regular event

Maybe they'll create an "Open Carry" pizza just for you folks. Wonder what would be on it.
»

Well

The "Nuge" was popular, as was another one, I believe the 'one ton" it had mushrooms on it so I didn't pay attention :-)  I already had chinese food with my supervisor after work so had a slice of pepperoni.

Hmm, what would an OC pizza be?  We were a pretty diverse group, from liberals to libertarians, men and women, but have common ground with OC.

 

Molon Labe

»

Well then...

sounds ike the OC pizza should have a little of everythig on it...and nothing buried!
»

I like that!!

Sounds pretty good to me.  I do believe you have a handle on what the OC movement in this state is!  A little bit of everyone, and nothing hidden. 

Security through Obscurity is Not Security

»

A No-Cheese pizza is the

A No-Cheese pizza is the best way to have nothing hidden.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

»

Well

The toppings still show, and the cheese holds a diverse set of toppings together.

»

I need some help

I'm sorry security_six. Help fill me in on what is going on. Did you have an issue with Olympia Police Dept? Is OC short for Olympia Council? Sorry to be acting 'stupid' but I haven't been keeping up with OlyBlog that much. Thanks!
»

Ahh...

This is an issue I brought over to OlyBlog.  I am an armed citizen who choses to practice the ancient art of Open Carry. (OC) IOW I don't conceal my sidearm.  This is a perfectly legal activity, requires no permits (unless you are in a vehicle) and is protected by state law, the state constitution, and state court rulings.

www.OpenCarry.org

I have a problem with the OPD, they are disregarding their own internal directives regarding OC.  I have posted elsewhere on the blog about this.  http://olyblog.net/disturbing-encounter-opd

 

»

DJW

It seems that the Olympia Police are nervous about a couple of things lately - people that protest the war and people that walk around openly carrying firearms.  I wonder how it would work if people that opposed the war, openly carried firearms?

»

Well

As long as they are not engaged in any lawbreaking or rioting...  I wouldn't be blockading streets while OCing, but a dozen guys holding signs on the sidewalk OCing?  Wah.  They may not like it but it is still protected. 

What I appreciate is how people are willing to consider and discuss OC here.  I feared a much different response....

»

Well...

It seems that the Tacoma Police, during their protests, were allowed to ban backpacks from the designated protest area.

I guess someone openly carrying a firearm would have been OK.

»

Could be

Although the backpack ban could probably been challanged under Article I, section 4 of the state constitution.

There are also laws about being armed while rioting, but nothing about being armed while peaceably assembling.   

»

You're getting the response you well deserve

Had you premised your post with "this is going to bug all you namby pamby, gun-hating liberals," then you might have gotten a different response. Respect is contageous and it allows us to have these kinds of conversations. Thanks. Of course, now someone will troll through and prove me wrong...again.
»

S6

It's likely your common bond here isn't the gun/oc issue but rather you and them against the cops behavior. Strange bedfellows to be sure. Peaceniks and crazed gun toters. *tongue in cheek*

"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--

»

From my perspective

the common bond is the concern about the abuse of authority and its effect on our civil liberties. I think acknowledging our common concerns is a great thing.
»

And that's OK, right?

Finding common ground, no matter where it is, is good for community. Anything that brings us together and at the same distancing the people from the government is good in my book. (my tongue it further in than yours, or is it?)
»

Perhaps we are both bleeding from the mouth

I don't take issue with the bond. I was just calling it as I see it. It's not the love of guns or the furtherence of 2nd amendment rights that has created this bond. It clearly is the OPD link. Had S6 posted about how wonderful open carry is, etc. absent the OPD stuff, I think the comments he would have gotten from the leftists here would have been different. Likely more negative.

"We Israelis sacrifice ourselves for our continued existence, our enemies sacrifice themselves for our destruction."--Unknown--

»

In a way you're right. And

In a way you're right. And that's already happened. But that's over and done with (for the most part). Olybloggers have more than just a gripe with the OPD in common with S6. His desire to do something tangible to help the homeless comes to mind.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

»

You may be right,

but I think it says something about OlyBlog that people did focus on the common ground (need for OPD reform) as opposed to the clear division (big scary guns).
»

Not to be overly negative,

Not to be overly negative, but maybe some people don't want to argue with people who carry guns.
»

Or with the guy with the

Or with the guy with the muscles. Or with the guy who signs the paychecks.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

»

Yes

That's right. But guns are probably the most intimidating.
»

Oh, I and others have had plenty of arguments with Six

so it's not the gun.
»

I said some people

We do not yet live in the glorious world where everyone is like you, Gugli boy.
»

And that's exactly why

we're in such a sorry state!
»

You sure can specualte

I don't love guns. I just kind of like them, but I certainly don't hate them. I am also a big fan of the bill of rights...all of them. And I'm not the only one here with those views. Not sure why you want to take the most cynical view possible of this interaction. It's not a particulary constructive critique. Let's not let the left-right boggie man ruin things yet again.
»

Thank you Six

Thanks for the link. Sounds like you are having a very interesting debate with OPD.  I appreciate your willingness to cooperate with the police who stopped you that day and I think the way you are handling it is very effective.  No whining, crying or anything else.  At least that is how I read it,.

As for having weapons, I don't have a problem with it.  Though I do have a problem with some of the people who do carry weapons.  I also have a problem with people having the M16's, AK47's and like type weapons.  These weapons were designed for one thing, killing people.  Personally if someone were to notice me carrying a weapon I don't think I would have a problem with the police 'stopping me' and answering any questions.  I think there are enough crazy people out there shooting people that the police need to be proactive.

»

Hmm...

Yes there are some things in common here from both sides of the fence, and I think it could make for interesting bedfellows, and productive.  Not sure if the OPD can take pressure from both sides. 

As far as M-16's and AK's not being a good thing, consider the washington state constitution.  " The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men."

Not sure I would want to engage in the common defense with guns not designed for killing people.

"Designed for killing people"  That is a cop out plain and simple.  I can pick up a "target" gun and kill someone just as easily (if not easier) with it than I could with a semi auto AK.  Disliking a gun because it "looks" a certain way is silly.  The russians are selling hunting rifles and shotguns on the AK action.  It is tough, simple and strong, all good things ot have in a gun.  I can also get an AK that looks like an "assault weapon"  What's the difference?  Same thing with the AR-15, Mini 14, M-14 or any similar weapon.  

I cringe everytime I hear someone say "as long as they're not designed for killing people I'm alright with them..."

It's not the gun, it's the person using it.  My P89 was designed as a service pistol.  That means it was designed to be used as a working sidearm.  Cops, personal protection, etc...  It's not a target pistol it's for "killing people" but I can also be pretty accurate at the range with it, and enjoy shooting it.  

Anyway I'm getting off topic.

 

»

Lower standards of hiring?

This article speculates that to fill needed positions, police departments may be lowering their hiring standards. Any sense on if or how that might be playing out in Olympia? Or are we an exception? I mention this because it might be related to how officers are dealing with OC and other issues. Thoughts?
»

Speaking on personal experience

and being part of the process in the past, I don't think that's an issue in western washington. Again, just personal experience.
»

That's cool. You seem pretty tuned in.

I suspect this "problem," if it exists at all, probably depends on where you are...like New Orleans. Okay. So let's cross this off the list then.
»

I believe I brought this up

I believe I brought this up a while ago.

Most police departments are moving toward hiring armed social workers. Very few people want police officers who - God forbid - look intimidating. The most important thing in law enforcement is common sense, not a B.A. Unfortunately, most departments place a far greater emphasis on the latter rather than the former this day in age.

It's been brought up numerous times in military publications because many people who would otherwise be qualified cannot get hired due to things such as exposed tattoos, which a significant number of people in the Armed Forces have.

And then some police departments want to meet certain gender and ethnic requirements, making exceptions and hiring individuals who have failed to meet a standard criteria.

Of course, a number of people my age (early 20s) aren't exactly keen on signing up for the military or law enforcement, either. Not that my job in the Army consists of slugging it in the dirt, but you have to give up a lot of personal freedom when you go into the military or law enforcement. Most people simply don't want to make that trade.

I suspect as time goes on we'll see more tangible effects.

I say this separate from the specific article because I don't necessarily believe there's an uprising in "police brutality" due to the candidate field being reduced. From what I've seen, the Average Joe isn't complaining about the police department and - shockingly enough - if you're a citizen who simply goes about your business law enforcement is willing to bend over backward for you.

I tend to put little value - and really, don't care - if the guy who just beat the shit out of his wife complains that he was slapped around a little bit. As a prosecutor I wouldn't be in a hurry to take anyone to court, either.

»

Six

Let me start by saying I'm not anti-gun.  I actually own two. 

I often times don't take the time to explain my stance or give any background when posting comments.  My dislike for AK-47's, M-16's etc are personal and professional.  I've found many times where people purchase these weapons and for a $15 they can buy kits (legally) to make them fully automatic.  At that point people use them to kill people more efficiently and effectively.  Again, my opinion.  In my previous career I would much rather face someone with a 9mm vs. a fully automatic AK.  I know, simple analogy that is FULL OF HOLES! 

I remember once talking with a gentleman who had tried to make a career of breaking into homes.  He was always very consistent that if he broke into a home and heard that distinctive chambering sound of a 12 gauge he would immediately get the heck out.  I always found that interesting. 

I enjoyed your thread and the way you are handling your problems with OPD.  Again, my personal opinion is that I don't understand the excitement of owning a "machine gun".  Then again I'm sure you don't understand the excitement I get when I use a new set of skis. 

 

»

how?

Last time I checked it was illegal (and the ATF loves to enforece it) to have any parts that can make a firearm fully-automatic. Even receivers on some rifles had to be changed (to make them harder to convert illegaly) before they could be sold again.
»

Norm

I could be mistaken (not unusual anymore) but I remember many a gun shows where "kits" or instructions on changing guns from semi to full. Now maybe the ATF has cracked down on this, then I say good. However, from what I remember it wasn't too difficult for people to alter weapons. Are the new weapons harder or tamper proof? I wouldn't know as I don't keep up with the production of newer weapons. One of my guns is over a hundred years old. The other is a run of the mill simple handgun. Still doesn't change my personal opinion of some weapons, nothing more.
»

It's illegal in this

state to own parts that can only be used in a full auto weapon.  Any semi auto can be with enough tinkering made full auto, but again is illegal.  Methinks you are too paranoid about this sort of conversion, how many are used in crime? 

Of course what happens is that criminals have full auto guns and the law abiding citizens have none.
»

This is speculation, but it

This is speculation, but it might have come about from radicals saying something is legal (due to an interpretation of law that would never hold up in court.) Just like people who claim they can legally avoid paying taxes, or claim it's legal to have children on their porn site, or claim it's legal to steal from a corporation-run store, some people may have convinced themselves that automatics are legal and were presenting it as fact to the public.

Please give me a second grace. Please give me a second face. I've fallen far down, the first time around, now I just sit on the ground in your way.
Nick Drake

»

Those kits are, and have

Those kits are, and have been since 1934, illegal. Most civilian rifles since 1984, that are semi-automatic versions of the full-automatic rifles, used by military, have had their receivers tinkered with to make it more difficult to alter it so that it may receive these parts. There are hand cranks available that give the simulation of being full-auto, but they are technically legal, and incredibly cumbersome (couldn't hit the broadside of a barn) to use, and a big waste of money imo.

I understand your personal opinion on weapons. I love to shoot, but I'm not really into the "tactical weapons" stuff myself. I've had many friends that love all of their toys, but I don't understand why they own half of them. I don't think they shouldn't be allowed to own them though.

»

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

OlyBlog.net

OlyBlog is devoted to hyperlocal news and discussion specifically about Olympia, Washington. Contributors to OlyBlog are citizen journalists who care about their community and are tired of corporate media.

If you'd like to contribute, please register for an account. Here is a list of local news beats that need to be covered. You can post your news as a personal blog entry, and it will be reviewed (and possibly edited) for promotion to the front page. You can also send news via email. All members of OlyBlog agree to abide by our comment and fair use policies. If you are frustrated about something said in a comment thread, go here.

Now playing at:

Latest Classified Ads

Get Firefox!


More Flickr photos tagged with olympia washington

OlyBlog is a site for news and discussion about Olympia, Washington.
free hit counter