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Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 8:44pm.
I think the thread on HB 6860 has gotten way off topic. I'm partly to blame for that, so here is a nice open thread for any of the side subjects that came up, or just to discuss fluffy kity cats and daisies....
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What Rob R. said elsewhere...
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 9:51pm.No where did we endorse any part of the port protests. The point of this blog is citizen journalism, people took pictures of things that were going on and posted them.
Nearly every gun thread I post has a local tie in, even Rick acknowledges that.
You hold us (the docents?) up to the community forum ideal yet you aren't respecting the community when it says the gun talk is out of control or just plain scaring some people. Every time that is brought up you blow it off by saying you don't understand why they're scared.
Again, not speaking for anyone else's threads, it has been held that mine are pretty relevant. The funny thing is nobody has had the backbone to express to me t hat they are "scared" , in fact if you will forgive me for saying so that is plain BS. Anyone who is scared of a blog entry that does not openly or imply threats is plain crazy in my book. Or lacks the nerve to stand up and tell the community as a whole what is bothering them and lurks around complaining to the docents. I have a hard time taking these sort of outlandish statements seriously when I only hear them from you with nothing to back them up. I will continue to post topics of local relevance with appropriate images. I will avoid gratitous postings or images, but I do not think it is fair or just to silence anything of true local importance.
I'm not trying to drive any person away, this about the atmosphere on the blog. People are coming to me, either in person or through messages and saying the blog is toxic for them. I'm tired of seeing people walk away for the same reason.
Again, why can't they speak for themselves? Kinda hard to take this sort of thing seriously.
Rick's offer was a kind one, and I'd welcome teasers with weekly wrap-ups from your knew blog, or event posts or whatever, but I feel for the good of the blog the gun posts and images need to be toned down quite a bit.
I will not be silenced or driven out because I espouse an unpopular viewpoint. I will post on local issues only on the subject of guns/defense or clarify a point if I think my knowledge on the subject of weapons would be useful. In fact I will try to avoid images except when absolutely needed, or warn the more sensitive here about them first.
But you either accept the diversity I have to offer with everything I post about, include guns, or you don't. It's an all or nothing package, you cannot pick and choose what a person will bring to a community forum if it is local.
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
few thoughts
Submitted by enpen on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:00pm.If somebody feels threatened by guns then chances are they are not going to want to identify themselves to a known gun carrier. I think the fact that they feel threatened should be taken very seriously, if only out of courtesy for our fellow people.
I will try to avoid images except when absolutely needed, or warn the more sensitive here about them first.
I think that would be excellent of you.
It's an all or nothing package, you cannot pick and choose what a person will bring to a community forum if it is local.
I agree with this to a point. I think this community withholds the right to not be inclusive to all parties. Some people are hell bent on seeing an experiment like this fail. Some people are hell being on using an experiment like this to spew hate. I do not think you fall into either of those camps, just to be clear.
Ask a docent to
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:06pm.Repost their worries then. It strikes me as cowardly. And I feel very pushed around right now, so am being more harsh than usual sorry. Rob kept digging... Even Rick and I eventually see eye to eye after we quit swinging our egos around :-) Anyway sorry...
I agree if someone is hellbent on destroying you or your work, you do what you have to to prevent that.
Thank you again for injecting some common sense into this argument...
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
and thank you
Submitted by enpen on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:13pm.For being willing to have a conversation even when you feel pushed around.
Not To Mention
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:09pm.who'd be so terrified of a post or a poster on a website that they unsubscribe? Especially when they probably haven't even met the poster and the poster doesn't have a clue who they are or where they live?
That's crazy!
In all seriousness, there are a couple of people here I wouldn't want to expose myself to because I don't feel comfortable with their points of view but do I fear them? No! Would I unsubscribe from Olyblog because of it? Hell no!
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
the point of empathy...
Submitted by enpen on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:12pm....isn't that you would act a way that somebody else would, it's really that you understand that others may act in ways you can never comprehend.
I'm really angry right now.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:11pm.I was harsh
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:19pm.And should not have said some of what I said, but damnit Rob I feel like you pushed me into a corner.
Guess what, I have been closely involved with some domestic violence involving a gun when I was a kid, and I was also abused as I child so I have some good claims for wanting to be non violent or anti gun if I wanted to be. But I take things in context. I will not condem guns because I saw one pulled on a close family member, nor will I condem all violence because I was abused as a child. Guns and violence in the hands of a law abiding citizen are toosl for good. Sometimes violence must be met with greater force to destroy it.
Yeah, I do think it is unreasonable for a person to be scared by mere words espousing belief in any civil right. I can't understand what sort of person would be so terrified by mere printed words that does not threaten them or others directly or indirectly. It's weird. But I digress.
I'm pretty pissed too, and for similar reasons as yours. You are angry at my intolernce and I am angry at yours.
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
apology accepted :-)
Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:37pm.I spent a lot of time as a youth around gangs and guns and crack, I don't have a lot of fond memories of any of those things. I don't mind guns personally, in my youth I was around them and fired them, I was a pretty good shot, was in a marksmanship club. Good times.
I understand how me not providing evidence of the things I've heard from people could be infuriating. I don't because they've asked me not to.
The whole point I'm trying to make is that an image of a gun has the potential to profoundly affect somebody who may have been around or victim of gun violence. I'm a lucky one, I had guns pulled on me as a kid a few times by people I didn't know and a.)lived to tell about it without catching one and b.) haven't had any mental health issues because of it. Again, I'm lucky, there are people who have been traumatized by things in their past and something as seemingly innocuous as a picture of a handgun could really set them back.
Until I started hearing people voice concern, I had no problem with the gun threads. I also feel like it turned quickly into a pissing contest where it went from one gun post a week to one every couple of days from various sources with various intents. I do recognize, and apologize for not saying this earlier, that your posts are usually related to local things, or are informative. I think we can figure out a way to do this so that local information can be available for the people who are interested, and also so that it is not intrusive to those who may be bothered by it.
And thank you
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 10:40pm.For clarifying. It shouldn't be too hard for someone to figure out if a post is about guns. I could have been plainer with SB 6860, but it is a piece of legislation, and no pics attached to it. I'll make sure my gun posts are plainly marked as such.
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
So
Submitted by stevenl on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 11:14pm.where is the part about kittens or daisies?
Well
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 11:18pm.I put up two kitten pics and a daisy image. Not my fault nobody wanted to run with them.
Personally I love cats. Don't want one on the boat though, I don't want to be responsible for another life when I am cruising, which makes me sad sometimes as I would enjoy having a boat cat around. But there are major issues with my lifestyle and pets so I don't keep them. I like Maine Coons most of all. Where else can you get 40+ pounds of soft fluffy love that also clearly on top of the food chain. And they are so friendly... and can take out a racoon... What more can you ask for out of a pet? :-p Warm bundle of love that keeps rodents and undesirable creatures down....
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
Here is a pic that could come in handy at times...
Submitted by security_six on Tue, 01/29/2008 - 11:34pm.One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796
As Groucho Marx once said
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 5:45am."I love my cigar, but I take it out of my mouth once in awhile"
My Grandparents died in a
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 8:23am.Since High School I have lost at least 7 classmates to car accidents, most involving negligence or DUI. Out of respect for my feelings I would appreciate it if we never discuss cars, teenagers, high school or old friends.
My Grandma was a recovering alcoholic for most of my life. One of my Uncle's was an alcoholic who never quite recovered, plus he was a pill popper. Out of respect for my feelings I would appreciate it if we never discuss the Brotherhood or any other local bar.
The first time I ever called 911 was when my future ex-wife's first ex-husband said he was getting his gun (which we knew he had) from his car, after which he returned, ran upstairs and rammed the door open, knocking her and their three-year-old down. Out of respect for my feelings I would appreciate it if we never discuss guns or domestic violence.
I have lots of friends and acquaintances who were molested as children, I knew at least two women who had been raped in the past, I've known people who were HIV positive and one who died of AIDS. Out of respect for my feelings I'd appreciate it if we never discussed anything remotely related to sexuality including marriage, home life, and especially your kids which were the product of a union.
No one is suggesting that we NEVER discuss guns.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 8:50am.It doesn't need to be
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:07am.Come to think of it, the topic of kittens makes me think of my Rosie who got clipped by a car one night and spent the next few hours lying crippled in our driveway before we found her and took her to the vets to be put down. And daisies...reminds me of The Great Gatsby, which in turn reminds me of being teased in elementary school for being a bookworm, so now I'm reliving certain scenes of bullying and experiencing once again the burning humiliation and shame of not being an athlete.
There's only one thing to do: Olyblog should only be about reaffirming everyone else's value: I'll start with you Gug. You are a very valuable member of Olyblog. Your contributions enrich our lives.
I'll come up with a list of everyone else and complement them soon.
I think this comment...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:14am.is abusive.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Rick, you're a valuable
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:28am.Would you please explain why you consider my comment abusive? Despite being a meat-eater I'm an animal lover and consider my pets to be family members. I also wasn't lying about my school experience.
Surely you're not suggesting that my life experience and how it's shaped my current mental and emotional being is irrelevant? Such an attitude could drive a person away from Olyblog.
Pushing things...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:37am....to the point of absurdity -- and continuing to do so when it is brought to your attention, is not helpful. Asking for sensitivity around the gun issue is NOT a program to eliminate dissent or conversation about conversational issues, as your mockery suggests.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Mockery? I have not lied
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:44am.Thanks for telling me my Grandparent's death was a mockery. It happened thirteen years ago last Sunday. I passed their place while it was happening and had no clue (not that I could have done anything). The official report from the firemen was that my Grandmother fell asleep with a cigarette; feel free to shove that fact in my face if another "smoking in the bars" thread pops up.
You win.
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:58am.You have proved that you can be more absurd than anyone else. Congratulations.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Now who's the one being
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:31am."It doesn't need to be obsessive, just one mention..."
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:43am.Sorry about that Merwyn. Good thing we don't talk much about fires here (oops, I just did). Sorry to say that some people are so scarred by life that it can be particualrly difficult for them to engage in typical, everyday interactions with others. If there was a genuine problem of that nature, I'd hope we could figure out some form of accomodation. Of course, some topics are so universal that it would be impossible to provide an atmosphere that is totaly safe while also providing a meaningfull experience for the broader community. Still, I hope such a person could find in Olyblog a place that, while not perfectly safe, is understanding and willing to listen most of the time.
For reasons I will not go into, there are occasions (though less frequently now) where I am nearly unhinged by the sound of someone knocking on a door. While I don't expect them to change their behavior, it would be nice if my friends acknowledged this odd fact once in a while. Perhaps that is the best we can do.
I promise you, if I ever
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:46am.Me? I hate the sound of ringing phones, but after around 10ish when the phone rings I immediately fear that someone's dead. I've had more than one call of that nature.
See??
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:19am.I am 100% in agreement that
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:35am.My beef is with them being told that they shouldn't have any discussion whatsoever because it's scaring someone away. If someone has issues then they need to deal with them through a support group or therapy, and they deserve respect and support while going through that, but it's unfair to expect the rest of the world to tiptoe for them.
I'm Mr. Strawman...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:38am....pleased to meet you.
If you read the various posts, you might have noticed that no one said anything like that.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Rick, despite your value to
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:45am.Are you telling us you've never asked them to get their own blog? Are you telling us Rob has never informed them that various people are too afraid to post on Olyblog now?
The "that"...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:54am....that I referred to was your strawman "...they shouldn't have any discussion whatsoever..."
By inviting them to move the discussion to another blog in no way implies that there wouldn't continue to be some gun-related content, especially if it were local. As I mentioned several times, S6 has made some interesting and informative posts. (But, you would have noticed that, if you had read the posts.)
Having a new blog would allow them to post any content unrestricted, without worrying about offending anyone.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Rick, before I respond to
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 11:07am.By inviting them to move the discussion to another blog in no way implies that there wouldn't continue to be some gun-related content, especially if it were local.
But it's still off of Olyblog and considered unwelcome there.
(But, you would have noticed that, if you had read the posts.)
I did notice it, thank you.
Having a new blog would allow them to post any content unrestricted, without worrying about offending anyone.
And once the gun hobbyists have been removed who's next? There were lots of people offended in the Protest discussions. Who gets their own blog then? Probably the "law and order" crowd.
There were people offended in the Plan B and Planned Parenthood threads. I assume in this case the Pro-Life crowd would get their own blog so that nobody's offended.
If relocations like this become the norm then it's obvious that there's supposed to be an official Olyblog stance on various beliefs. If the Powers that Be would just be honest about it we all would be able to move on.
I beleive that Guglielmo...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 11:12am....politely asked you to cut the reductio ad absurdum line earlier. Are you willing to answer for that?
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
Certainly, and when I do
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 11:27am.And if you were genuinely disturbed by frequent obsessive discussions of house fires on Olyblog, you probably wouldn't stick around.
True. That doesn't mean I would request that users who happened to be firefighters not be allowed to post about their jobs, or a dangerous situation they were in, or give safety tips on keeping housefires from happening.
Perhaps the housefire nuts could figure out a better way to practice their hobby on Olyblog while making the place more welcoming to you.
I know Gug has said in the past he's not anti-gun. That said, he uses the term "nuts", and while in this sentence it's referring to housefires it can easily be applied to gun hobbyists. (Gug frequently uses the term hoplophobe (if I misspelled that I apologize), presumably to apply a negative connotation to the interest and practice.
I see nothing wrong with that. Don't take this to absurd conclusions.
I'll readily admit that some of it was absurd, but not all of it was.
In fact, here's a more relevant thing. It's no secret I'm Pro-Life, I've tried to not be disrespectful when having discussions concerning it. When the subject briefly popped up again a couple weeks ago I stayed away from most of the material that had already been covered.
The subject matter, and the fact millions of people think it's acceptable, truly bothers me. Does it keep me away from Olyblog? Of course not. Should I expect the majority of Olyblog posters to keep away from the subject out of respect for my feelings? Of course not, I agree that would be absurd.
I wish...
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 11:51am....you had decided to take a walk before jumping into this conversation today. You're all over the map, and I really don't have the energy today to track you down.
> It's OK to be nice. <
enpen's social contract
There is a difference between "interest and practice"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 12:01pm.and obsession. I don't mind gun talk. But frankly, us "gun-friendly" people don't think the hoplophiles are doing us any favors. So I tend to be a little reactive. If you have a better word for someone who is obsessed with gun culture, please provide one.
You know, there are guys out there who are really into Real Dolls or treat their Real Dolls like real people. Good for them. Yet, I find it equally good that they do not dedicate much space on Olyblog to their obsession. Real Doll lovers, please feel free to check in; give us an update on the latest costume you purchased. Just remember we are not all as comfortable with the Real Doll thing as you are and so you might want to save your favorite photos for a different venue or just provide a link next time.
I hear you loud and crystal
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 12:11pm.No, it is not at all absurd
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 12:15pm.Well, technically, Real
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 12:23pm.Well,
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 9:06pm.There was a suggestion,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 11:00am.Also, if you go back and reread the resolution that was come to in this disagreement between Rick, myself, and S6, I think it kind of makes this continued argument a negative in the sense that it sets us back to a place we were in before we came to a resolution.
If what you're saying is not related to this specific issue then can we start a new thread? I know this is an open thread but the conversation was dominated by the gun discussion and I think a new thread to get to the heart of your issue is needed.
Wait one darned second
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:51am.To provide balance...
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 10:56am.As a recovered alcoholic/addict, I don't mind any discussion of The Broho, alcohol, other intoxicants, etc. Other people's choices are none of my business, unless I'm asked.
So much for
Submitted by security_six on Wed, 01/30/2008 - 7:50pm.Fuzzy kittens and flowers... BTW, I never said I wouldn't post gun images, but instead would make it very plain through notification or the title of the posting that such images are inside.
One loves to posess arms, though they hope to never have occassion for them.
Thomas Jefferson to George Washington 1796