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Submitted by security_six on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:14pm.
I do not know what songs were played at the Dead Prez concert. However I find the following lyrics from one of their songs pretty telling about the group. Presumably those who listen to Dead Prez are familiar with them and most likely some of them believe in the message contained therein. Considering some had spraypaint at the concert, makes me wonder if any excuse would have worked for a riot?
I throw a molotov cocktail at the precinct, you know how we think
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What do rioting and spraypaint have to do with one another?
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:21pm.The first line aside, do you find anything wrong with their message?
Do you think a riot would have happened after the concert no matter what?
Well....
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:28pm.The tagged police cruiser is a pretty good indicator of the presence of spraypaint. Given the inflamatory nature of some hip hop music and the anarchist/revolutionist mindset of some of Dead Prez's followers I believe any excuse would have been seized to start trouble. Weak security helped the situation along.
I know, it is a lot more fashionable to blame "the man" "the cops" "the state" "opression" etc, etc..
.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)
It is inflamatory for good reason
Submitted by wildleaf on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:39pm.I feel pretty empowered without
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:49pm.Rioting. Of course if I had your mindset of all is lost I may want to destroy a cruiser or two.
Life is what you make of it, what you want it to be. I believe things CAN change. I have worked enough small changes to convince me that change is possible. All things end, all things change.
I hate to break this to you, but your song of despair has been sung by nearly every generation. We're still here.
I grew up poor. My father is a loser, and my stepfather abused me. I was always getting into trouble in school... I've made a few bad decisions, but I managed to pull myself up by my bootstraps. The boat I have may not look like much, but I have refused the purchase of larger sailboats which I could easily afford. I have a job I love, hobbies I enjoy and activism that keeps me busy.
Look at me, I am a constitutionalist, libertarian and gun rights activist. Pretty good recipe for revolutionary right? Wrong.
I am so convinced of the rightness of the system, that it can be fixed from within. Also I decided that if we are in the death throes of Western Civilization As We Know It, I may as well clean my guns, check my six and enjoy the ride. And you know what damnit, I am enjoying the ride.
I don't buy the Death Throes bit either. We are as empowered as we choose to be. I am who I am, and my force and power is still the same regardless.
Of course I am a salesman by choice so I tend to look at everything as just another pitch and sales opportunity....
I am not convinced of the righteousness of senseless rioting and destruction. Put the energy and hatred towards a positive goal, believe in empowerment instead of seeking it. You are nothing more than you say you are.
.45/70 Government (The only Government I trust!)
wildleaf, You asked "what
Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 3:27am.wildleaf,
You asked "what does the US offer this generation?" Well, it offers pretty much what it has offered previous generations. It offers you opportunity and free will to make choices. Make good choices and you will have a better life. Make poor choices and you will suffer for them. Our country and our constitution does not guarantee anyone sucess, happiness or any certain standard of living. It never has. What we are given is the opportunity for the PURSUIT of happiness and success.
You refer to service job as if those are the only jobs your generation can get. That is nonsense. You do not have to stick with "service jobs" all your life. The choice is yours. Get marketable skills that people will pay you good money to do.
You mention debt. If you don't want to get in debt, then don't. No one has ever forced me to get into debt. It was always my choice.
Our country is not in the "11th hour". Our has run into problems and tough times before and come out of it. We will do the same now.
Jeff Brigham
woody guthrie was just as radical as Dead Prez.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:43pm.Six is absolutely right. A
Submitted by wilson on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 9:16am."afraid to do what it takes to achieve their goals"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 12:16pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
What I was trying to say is
Submitted by wilson on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 1:38pm.Skill development
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 3:49pm.Skill development, education, these are things that require leisure time and money. Most bottom rung service workers can't afford either. How do you climb if you can't reach the rungs?
It is Very Realistic.
Submitted by Jeff Brigham on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 4:41pm.Sorry Rob, but it is realistic. The opportunities for education in our country and our state abound. Education through high school is provided free to the student. A program called Running Start allows high school students to attend classes at a community college for their last two years of high school. Tuituion is free. All they have to pay is books. True, new textbooks can be expensive but still they can attend college classes at a small fraction of the full cost. And used books are often available. Go to the next SPSCC graduation and you will see students getting their high school and college associates degree at the same time.
After high school, many different types of student aid and large numbers of scholarships are available. Of course, you have to apply for the student aid and put some effort into finding and applying for scholarships. I worked at SPSCC for almost 10 years and personally saw many students hunt down, apply for, and receive multiple scholarships. They chose to take initiative and do. I'll give better than even odds that they will succeed in their lives.
As far as time, yes it takes effort. I earned a Bachelor degree while working full time. Many, many days I went to work at 6:30 am and finished at 5:00 pm. Then I attended classes from 6:00pm to 8:00pm or 10:00pm. Weekends were occupied with much homework and study. If I can do it, so can others.
Of course, I could have avoided all that effort and just blamed the system for me not having an education. But we had an expression back then that went "The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters." There are people who do and those that make excuses on why they can't. Those that do will be the ones that succeed and do well in life.
Jeff Brigham
Go to...
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 5:29pm.How many kids did you have when you were in school? Where did you grow up? How did you afford to pay for college?
Some people have it rough, Jeff. The system does not provide everybody with bootstraps with which to yank themselves up by. I'm glad you had the opportunities you did, I'm glad that you were provided with those opportunities and had the luxury of taking advantage of them. Many people aren't educated as to how to get an education, many people are only taught enough to become workers. Please don't think that I'm calling you privileged or intending for you to somehow feel bad because you got an education, that's not what I'm trying to do here. You had some great opportunities and were able to go to college, somewhere along the way you were convinced that everybody has that same opportunity, it's just not so Jeff. Seriously, where you are born or with what color skin can mean a world of difference in how your life turns out.
We may not agree on this, I don't know how to make you understand my perspective. I don't think pointing out flaws in the system equates to passing blame. Systems, by their very nature, have flaws. Systems should be continually tweaked until they work right. Our system is leaving a lot of people behind. Look at the growing gap between rich and poor, and the shrinking middle class. Those are two very obvious symptoms of our flawed system.
Been there, done that....
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 10:11pm.It's called living within in your means and planning for your future. When I got out of high school I didn't rush out and start a family with no means of support. Went to college for a year or so on Pell Grant. Had a job in Colorado doing tech support for AOL, I got some more technical skills. Moved back to Washington and did coputer work. When my skills stopped sufficing for me, I rented a cheap, crappy little room in one of the worst neighborhoods in Seattle. After being threatened several times, nearly mugged once and hearing gunshots on a regular basis, I scraped up $160 and bought a cheap, crappy little revolver and a used .22 rifle. I developed new skills in free time, studied as I had the time and worked a job that (barely) paid the bills.
Then I bought a 1936 Cabin Cruiser. Got another job. Sold the boat, quit the job sailed to San Diego. The lost weekend. Got a trimaran and a spot in the anchorage, and really did as little as possible.
Came back up to civilization. Got another job with skills honed in San Diego. Bought boat in Oly. Quit job in Seattle. Took job in Lynnwood through a temp agency and honed a couple more basic skills. Got sales job in Oly. Bought land in Alaska. Brushing up and honing sales skills and getting ready to update my computer techincal training.
Now I imagine being single helped. The moral? Don't reproduce until you can take care of your brood, or are happy flipping burgers. There are night schools, part time schools, internet schools, just about any way possible to enhance and learn new skills. But it takes something few people have anymore. Patience. Everything must be handed over at once, complete with middle class american lifestyle.
It don't work that way. Sorry. The American Dream isn't handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for it. And that also means making life choices to ensure you have a fighting chance.
God God God/Won't you lead us through this mess/God God God/From the places of concrete
God God God/Nothing's worse than ignorance/God God God/I just won't accept defeat
A lot of choices are made for people
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 10:40pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
Dang
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 10:56pm.Sucks to be them then. I guess if a person has no ambition or willingness to try and better themselves, something I believe is inherent in human nature, I will not excuse their failing as a citizen. Man is a thinking, reasoning creature. Man is capable of manipulating the enviroment and making informed choices based on observation and input.
If a person cannot lookat their life and decide they may need to take X steps in order to achieve what they want, I have no pity for them. If someone cannot decide on their own regardless of upbringing that if they don't want to flip burgers for the rest of their lives they better improve their job skills, then I cannot trouble myself worrying about them.
People CAN make choices based on what they need to achieve what they want. If flipping burgers satisfies your life's goals great! If you think you are being trod upon by the great capitalist boot because daddy wasn't home and mommy was a drug addict and nobody kept you in school, well tough cookies. A thinking, reasoning creature such as humans should be able to determine what they need to do in order to achieve their lifestyle.
It's called natural selection. There is only one crime in nature, and that's stupidity. The punishment is final and swift, and that is death. There is no appeal.
God God God/Won't you lead us through this mess/God God God/From the places of concrete
God God God/Nothing's worse than ignorance/God God God/I just won't accept defeat
Stupidity in the "social jungle" can be a problem too
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 11:08pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
I'm not happy with it
Submitted by security_six on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 11:14pm.For starters I'd like to see everyone locked up for posession of a controlled substance without intent to distribute released. The "War on Drugs" is a drain on our society and does not work.
I don't believe I ever said I supported the current incarceration system. I don't support lazy stupid people who expect the state to take care of them on my tax dollars.
God God God/Won't you lead us through this mess/God God God/From the places of concrete
God God God/Nothing's worse than ignorance/God God God/I just won't accept defeat
"Lazy stupid people"
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 11:45pm.Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
service learning
Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 02/20/2008 - 5:20pm.service learning opportunities exist, like Locksmith, coffee roasting...
it is not accurate or fair to say that "it is not realistic" even if your point is valid.
Your are biased by your profession aren't you?
It is sorta like this for me when it comes to this kind of back/forth, "If you can't hear what I'm saying then I'm not gonna listen to you either"...then where are we?
The key, in my opinion, is to look for opportunity in ourselves and in our daily life, where ever we find ourselves (on the road, in the garden, at war, in school, at home, everywhere)~
~be at peace and try not to be too dismissive of others' viewpoints~
We probably will all just
Submitted by wilson on Sun, 02/17/2008 - 9:10pm.Why change?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 02/18/2008 - 11:31am.Many folks believe the ability to change is endogenous: a self-making man simply identifies his goals and then over comes the obsticles to obtaining them. A growing body of empirical research, however, shows that external factors influence goal selection and whether an individual considers those goal attainable. The resulting self-assessments influence critical decisions about education, career choice, child bearing, etc. The theoretical underpinnings of this research are described in Bandura, A. "Self-Efficacy: Toward a Unifying Theory of Behavioral Change." Psychological Review 84 (1977): 191-215; and Bandura, A. Self-Efficacy: The Exercise of Control. New York: Freeman, 1997.
Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.! --John Maynard Keynes
Wow.
Submitted by The Original Yoda on Fri, 02/22/2008 - 2:45am.Cool.