Political Yard Signs and Homeowners' Association

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Political Yard Signs and Homeowners' Association

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 3:58pm.

Whew!

I've been displaying a Doug Mah for Mayor campaign sign in my front yard for nearly 3 months now. Initially, Doug thought the Goldcrest Homeowners' Association wouldn't allow the political yard sign. I said I'd give it a shot and see what the President of the association, Charlie Lutz, had to say about it.

I was free and clear - until today.

Mr. Lutz stopped by our house near the end of a cul-de-sac and asked me to remove the sign in accordance with the neighborhood covenants. He cited a specific entry in the covenant disallowing any signs other than homes for sale signs. I asked him if garage sale signs were allowed. He fell silent. I respectfully disagreed with Mr. Lutz and asked him to reconsider. He said, "Laws are laws," thus the beginning of my search for real law, not inclusive law.

Once I began to search I felt a bit of a pit in my stomach. Most of the case law was at the federal and state level and explicitly excluded HOA's. I even found a few cases where HOA's actually won out over individuals. Wow, I thought, am I going to have to grown my lawn long and pen 'Doug Mah 4 Mayor' using my lawnmower as a big-ass marker?

As it turns out, no. The State of Washington passed a law in 2005 limiting a HOA's reach reach when it comes to political yard signs. In fact, the law is retroactive to any governing documents in effect on July 24th, 2005.

Know your rights. Display your campaign signs. Tell your HOA to go fly a kite.

2005 Senate Bill 6064 (Limiting the powers of homeowners' associations) - Bill Details

Ehver Green's blog
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Thanks for the info. I hate

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:01pm.

Thanks for the info. I hate HOA's and would be extremely careful about signing into one. I'll paint my house any color I want.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

Good on yah!!

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:03pm.

...even though you're supporting the wrong person.

Too bad you couldn't read it

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:12pm.

Too bad you couldn't read it for what it was. Although, I guess I'm not surprised given the support for Meta here.

I did read it for what it was:

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:21pm.

A story about how your HOA rep asked you to remove your I-am-going-to-vote-for-Doug-Mah sign. You considered mowing I-am-going-to-vote-for-Doug-Mah in your front lawn. But after researching the law, you discoverd that the HOA cannot prevent you from posting your I-am-going-to-vote-for-Doug-Mah sign. That's great! Just giving equal time to another candidate is all.

Crikey! Don't be so defensive.

Whatever.

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:24pm.

Whatever. I'll be sure to repay the favor in due time. Be less offensive.

The support..

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 8:01am.

For the grassroots candidate comes from the 20 people who post on this blog.. and the ten people who meet regularly to drink at the bar.

This would mean you hear a lot of repeated information reposted regularly from the same small group of people.

It's good to hear from someone who isn't afraid to show they aren't drinking the koolaid.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Koolaid?

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 8:08am.

Well, aren't you a respectful fellow.

The support..

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 10:03am.

comes from all of the business leaders, community leaders, and citizens who have endorsed her publicly and privately, not to mention the many many yard signs she has up (many more than Doug, and much better locations(sorry EG, but at the end of a cul de sac isn't prime real estate for political signs)).

At least we're not drinking forties of Big Bear at 7AM.

Rob ...

Submitted by paisleyboxers on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 10:19am.

it was 6:30 i f I remember properly .. and if you want to discuss some dirty laundry on this thread.. I'll start coughing up the details..

Chill it Rob.

EG was making a point about the HOA and included some personal opinions as well. You don't need to eat your own on the blog.

Friendblog: None are known to exist since bloggers don't have friends.

Reality

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 11:46am.

I really do love and care about you, as hard as you make that sometimes. There, I've aired my dirty laundry. Now, shut up, write code, make money, and buy me a MacBook Pro. Daddy wants the new Leopard!!

Yeah Rob

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 10:24am.

it's just plain rude to talk about people's drinking habits. Only a royal prick stoops to that kind of talk. Shame on you.

I'm buying you a whiskey the

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 12:32pm.

I'm buying you a whiskey the next time we meet up.

I don't remember saying it

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 12:23pm.

I don't remember saying it was prime real estate. In fact, that was part of my point with regard to my HOA. What do they care? It's not a distraction, people aren't vandalizing it or committing crimes because of it, what's the real reason behind their uneforcable rule.

Good thing we don't elect based on who has the most signs! I saw a few of them on the ground today and didn't bother to put them back up. Check Harrison hill and around the corner on West Bay Drive.

I don't know a lot about

Submitted by OperaGirl on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:19pm.

I don't know a lot about HOA's (although I have a friend who has some horror stories) but once you belong to one, can you get out of it? Or do you automatically have to belong to one if the neighborhood that you live in does that sort of thing?

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Usually they are tied to the

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:35pm.

Usually they are tied to the deed of sale so it's quite binding. Generally you can't get out unless the contract is breached by the HOA. I'm sure there are exceptions. One way I've heard that people can still live in the neighborhood and not abide by the rules of the covenant is to not pay their dues and fight this requirement in court.

In our case I remember signing it but didn't read it in full. I pretty much just skimmed the TOC and looked deeper in areas where I had concerns (fences, etc). At the time political yard signs weren't even a thought - you understand if you've ever purchased a home.

That's what we did with our

Submitted by OperaGirl on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 6:08pm.

That's what we did with our HOA paperwork. Skim and sign! We have never paid our dues and don't plan to. So far we haven't had any issues and I hope it stays that way!

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

Offensive?

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:34pm.

Double crikey!

Not in the repugnant sense.

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:38pm.

Not in the repugnant sense.

Okay.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 5:05pm.

You mean "offensive" in the "Gug wants to provoke me" sense. Fair nuff.

Yes, exactly! =)

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 5:11pm.

Yes, exactly! =)

Oh Crikey indeed

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 4:39pm.

Uh Oh! Do you know what the etymology of Crikey is supposed to be? Dictionary dot com claims it's just a euphemism for "Christ", but other researchers say that "Christ" is only half of it.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

My HOA

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 5:56pm.

pays the highest dues in the city, is run by a man known in the neighborhood as The Nazi. I'm sure all neighborhoods have HOA horror stories but I'm sure my neighborhood would take the prize as THE WORST HOA in WA State!

As for painting your house any color, LUCKY YOU! We have to paint in earth tones only and everybody has a different interpretation of earth tone! Ironically, if you kiss the ass of the Nazi, you can pretty much do whatever you want in the neighborhood but knock him once and he will pick on you forever & rally his troops who fear him so badly they are afraid to step out of his shadow.

People in my neighborhood are fined $50.00 a day for signage in yards/windows, fences over the height limit (yes, they measure them!), brown spots on the lawn, lawn containers showing, blah, blah, blah... It's assinine and hubby & I HATE it. But like hubby says, we knew all these rules when we signed the agreement!

"Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence." - Unknown

Wow, I couldn't handle

Submitted by OperaGirl on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 6:10pm.

Wow, I couldn't handle that!

*I am that person who doesn't throw out rotting things because they're scary and who kills wasps by spraying things on them and screaming.*

To the best of my knowledge

Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 6:20pm.

To the best of my knowledge I never lived in a Covenant neighborhood growing up, but once we were informed that an anonymous Hitlerjugend neighbor turned us in for having a fire in our fireplace.

Personally I think neighbors are supposed to be ignored unless you need their help moving.

Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals.
Peter Viereck, Yale Professor

I'm all for structure, but

Submitted by Norm on Tue, 10/23/2007 - 6:34pm.

I'm all for structure, but this stuff sounds absolutely ridiculous.

HOAs

Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 8:21am.

Are really great when everything is going your way.

http://thurstonblog.blogspot.com/

Good for you

Submitted by JulieM on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 9:29am.

I live in Goldcrest too and did remembering reading we couldn't put up campaign signs. My husband said he didn't think it was enforceable, but the fact it's in the HOA agreement is ridiculous. I need to get me a Meta sign!

I have a letter that I plan

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 12:34pm.

I have a letter that I plan on distributing to the entire neighborhood should Charlie decide to pursue this any further. Feel free to stop by if you'd like a copy. It has the definition of covenant and the related laws protecting your right to post a political yard sign. I'm on Sunnyvale CT - you'll know the house once you see the Doug Mah sign. Stop by any time.

It actually was enforceable prior to July 2005. Doug had signs removed in Goldcrest during his last election because nobody wanted to fight for their right to post them.

Meta, get Julie a sign!

There's now a Meta Hogan

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:08pm.

There's now a Meta Hogan sign on the cul-de-sac directly across from me!

I sense a disturbance in the force

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:19pm.

I predict that soon, there will be a Hatfields and McCoys kinda feudin goin on around yer place

When I was in the Navy, one

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:26pm.

When I was in the Navy, one of the guys I was in charge of in my boat crew was from Kentucky and was a descendant of either the Hatfields or McKoys, I don't remember which. He remembers getting in gunfights with his neighbors who were members of the opposing family. He told a story about his mom and aunts making shells and bullets while his grandmother rolled joints and the men drank moonshine and smoked weed and went out and shot at whoever was shooting at their house. What a crazy childhood.

YeeeHaw!

Submitted by Norm on Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:41pm.

Sounds like some good child raisin to me!

Nah, I'm actually kinda glad

Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:30pm.

Nah, I'm actually kinda glad that someone was able to benefit from all this. Hogan, Mah, Green, it didn't matter - I just wanted to get the conversation going so others could benefit from the research.

and thank you for that.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 10/25/2007 - 1:32pm.

and thank you for that.

HOA's

Submitted by DJW on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 10:48am.

I've owned/lived in many areas with associations that are very strict to do nothing groups. A few years ago I was on one of the boards and we had an owner who had refused to pay for years. He was also the biggest P.I.T.A there was. When he finally moved he was in for a shock when the HOA had filed liens against his home for past dues. He fought them, but ultimately lost. There are some real horror stories out there with out of control groups. I for one learned the hard way and make sure I read the bylaws before I buy a home. I don't mind HOA's as long as they are consistent. I enjoy rules such as not having multiple cars that don't run in the driveway or street, garbage stacked up all over and limits on what types of outbuildings you can build.

I'm guessing the reason for HOA rules such as those

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 12:37pm.

are to maintain, at least superficially, an atmosphere of civility and homogeneity. People who join HOAs usually know what they are getting into and are attracted to such...usually, though apparently not in this case.

I don't think so. I'd bet

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 12:50pm.

I don't think so. I'd bet most people don't read the entire agreement. OG skimmed her covenant much like I did. I looked at the TOC and flipped to the sections where I needed assurances. At the time I wasn't even thinking about political signs. My concern was for what my house could look like, how fences should be constructed, was I allowed to keep my garbage and recycle outside, stuff like that. No worries though, the state came through for all HOA residents.

I guess they are more common than

Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 1:24pm.

I thought.

School me.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 1:40pm.

What if you don't agree? How can they stop you from living there? Do they really legally control who can buy a house in their neighborhood? How is that possible?

It's possible because it is

Submitted by Ehver Green on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 1:49pm.

It's possible because it is tied to the deed of sale or property title - no deed, no house. Legally? I'm not really sure. If I could (I guess I can still) do it all over again, I'd go to law school and argue all day.

Now, if you are already in the neighborhood and have signed the covenants, the one-way agreement that only you can break, there are generally simple fines that can be levied on a daily basis. If you don't pay and choose not to hire a lawyer it becomes debt and is then subject to debt relief. Garnishment, liens, etc.

If you know any real estate attorneys you may want to ask them for a more solid understanding. I'm an Internet attorney but it serves me well most of the time.

My understanding

Submitted by Norm on Wed, 10/24/2007 - 1:53pm.

Because it's private, and within capitalist rules, it's ok. IF you mess with the constitution too much it won't fly though. There was a case on the east coast of a HoA with a covenant restricting the ownership of firearms...it was found to be unconstitutional, the HoA lost.

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