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Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 3:12pm.
Reported by the Daily Olympian. Anyone seen the press release mentioned? Oh, and I hope this is not seen as an invitation for us to "draw battle lines" and harangue each other. It's just news. I'm interested in the details of the suit. |
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Port of Olympia Action |
A little background on the claimant Larry Mosqueda
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 3:48pm.http://www.neravt.com/left/WTC/mosqueda.html
http://academic.evergreen.edu/m/mosqueda/
http://www.olywip.org/site/page/author/larry_mosqueda.html
http://www.poyner.net/worldaction/horrified.html
http://www.omjp.org/ArtLarryDisobey.html
http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/ProfessorsBlameUS.html
Ask me if I am surprised that this guy is joining in a law suit against the Olympia Police department! There is tons more about this guy by this guy and where he stands on things like Amreica, the military, and so on.
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
A little background on claimant Daisy Montague
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:12pm.olywip.org
Audio from community forum
Audio from OlyBlog.
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I am not surprised that this person is involved in such a lawsuit. Are you surprised? I wonder if
Miss. Montague was a student of Mosqueda. Any bets?
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
What A Piece Of Work!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:19pm.One of her paragraphs in the first link begins
If she's so proud to have been a part of this train wreck and so proud of being arrested, why's she suing for $2.6 million?
She admits they went down there prepared to be sprayed and took goggles and bandanas! Now she's screaming brutality and wants to be rewarded for her bad choice?
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Not sure why the dollar amount is a critical issue at this point
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:32pm.Curious,
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:42pm.A little background on the claimant William Hamilton
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:21pm.http://www.theolympian.com/101/story/70719.html
With this guy William Hamilton it is much harder to find information that I am confident it is relevant to
the port protester. I'm sure there is more about him, but I will have to look further and harder to
be sure it is about him.
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Links are nice.
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:28pm.It's okay to be nice
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:33pm.OD, here's a kite, you know
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:34pm.nt
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:35pm.William Hamilton aka Wes Hamilton
Submitted by BillfromOlyNowR... on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:54pm.A little background on the claimant Adam Kohut
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:35pm.http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=12000201
I am not 100% confident this is the same "Adam Kohut" but I am pretty sure. I found it interesting
who he listed as heros or people he admired.
C.
One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
Okay, I'll ask nicely
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:46pm.ctrl + C then to the address bar and ctrl + v and hit enter.
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:47pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
The world is changing
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:10pm.Tschida ~ Since OD
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:55pm.can only complain instead of help by teaching you, I sent you a PM on how to hyperlink bud!
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Maybe yours will be easier
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:56pm.I Doubt It! LOL!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:02pm.You're by far more eloquent than I am!
Not to mention I used a bad word in my PM! hehehe!
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Maybe after you're done
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:12pm.Hmmm
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:34pm.Gug,
Submitted by Rob Richards on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 3:50pm.Did you really think that was going to stop anybody?
Rob, I have faith in my fellow Olybloggers
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 3:53pm.That's all well and good. Everything is fair game.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 3:51pm.I'm not big on frivilous
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:00pm.I'm not big on frivilous lawsuits but if cases like this enter our court system the truck drivers and companies they represent should be filling as well.
This is one time that I will be on court grounds in favor of the OPD.
Yes, I'm certain we all share one thing
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:11pm.Nothing I can share. Look
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:33pm.Nothing I can share. Look at the amount of $. Is it about the money or about changing the way OPD approaches future protests. You wanna play the lottery, buy a ticket.
Given the amount of money the city is being sued for I hope they go out and waste more city dollars by hiring a high-priced law firm.
Will the lawsuit see the courtroom? Probably, but no jury is going to find in favor of the plaintiffs. Mark my words.
Is it about the money or changing OPD?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:38pm.I think that's a fair question. We can only speculate about their motivations right now. One may specualte that they are just "playing the lottery." Another may say they have no reason to believe Mosqueda's motivation is a finacial. Clearly, most speculation is going to have a strong idiological bias.
What makes you think they will lose?
I'll reserve further comment
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:43pm.I'll reserve further comment until I see the text of lawsuit. I have ties to both the OPD and the city.
On the off chance they do win can you imagine the protest that
mightwill follow?Interesting quotes
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:12pm.University of Texas professor Robert Jensen has written that the terrorists' acts were "no more despicable than the massive acts of terrorism that the U.S. government has committed during my lifetime."
Richard Falk, a professor at Princeton University, has said that the terrorist attacks occurred because "the mass of humanity finds itself under the heels of U.S. economic, military, cultural and diplomatic power."
Professor Elisabeth Weber of the University of California-Santa Barbara wrote, "My concern over the U.S. flags surrounding campus is that they endanger the free exchange that normally characterizes our campus."
Rutgers University professor Barbara Foley wrote that "whatever [the terrorist attacks] proximate cause, its ultimate cause is the fascism of U.S. foreign policy over the past many decades."
Professor Howard Zinn of Boston University wrote, "We need to think about the resentment all over the world felt by people who have been victims of American military action - in Vietnam, in Latin America, in Iraq."
Evergreen State College of Olympia, Wash., professor Larry Mosqueda wrote, "If we multiply by 800-1,000 times the amount of pain, angst, and anger being currently felt by the American public, we might begin to understand how much the rest of the world feels as they are continually victimized [by the U.S.]..."
Professor George Wright of Chico State University in Chico, Calif., alleges that President Bush wants to "kill innocent people," "colonize" the entire Arab world and secure "oil for the Bush family..."
University of Minnesota Professor Ezra Hyland blamed Americans directly for the attacks, claiming that "you can't plant hatred and not expect to reap hatred."
Now, before someone calls me a "terrorist sympathizer", I'll state for the record that I, too, was mad as Hell on 9/11/01, not only at the loss of life taking place, but knowing that my daughter-in-law-to-be was a flight attendent on coast to coast routes for United. Any one of those four planes could have been hers (luckily it wasn't).
I think if people are willing to read the quotes with open minds and with eyes not covered up by Old Glory, they will see a certain amount of truths. Without going through each one, I was particularily interested in the U of Minnesota's Ezra Hyland saying "you can't plant hatred and not expect to reap hatred." That quote is damned near bibical in context.
Whether I agree in total or not, all of these quotes bear some substance and could be topics of discussion within themselves.
Yes, there are some rather strong feelings regarding
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:22pm.IMHO
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:31pm.It's a frivolous lawsuit that will be thrown out before it ever makes the courts. There's more evidence of them breaking laws than them being brutalized.
It's unfortunate our city felt there wasn't enough time and money to prosecute them all. Should it by some miracle make it to the courts, I'm confident OPD acted accordingly and this lawsuit will be found to have no merit.
Seriously, what constitutes $2.6 million a piece? Where did they come up with this number? Were any of them working and are now out of a job over this? Do any of them have lifetime disabilities now? Do they think a judgment of $2.6 million will make any emotional or mental stress just go away? What rights or inconveniences did they suffer to deserve $2.6 million each?
This is bogus and too many people work too hard to end up handing over that money in the form of compensation for what?
my guess
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:44pm.As the people organizing the protest made it apparent on several occasions that part of their goal is to make it financially prohibitive for our country to actively continue its wars, then petitioning for what is probably the maximum allowed fits in with that strategy %100.
If you assume that the people organizing this are doing it for stupid petty reasons then your conclusions will follow from those assumptions. If, however, you assume that this action is part of a coordinated effort to resist the American war machine, then you begin to see a slightly different picture.
Don't buy it. $10 million
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:46pm.Don't buy it. $10 million dollars from the city of Olympia will DO NOTHING to stop Washington D.C. Nice theory though. If financial ruin is the goal of OPMR they should get better organized and stop working in a silo.
domino affect
Submitted by enpen on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:50pm.$10 million and the associated costs of the trial (along with the security around the Port during the protests) may be enough to make other Port managers and cities give pause. Again, my guess is that the amount is the maximum amount allowed by law. This is speculation, yes, but I highly doubt the lawsuit is not a part of a larger strategy.
Too many dominos out of
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:54pm.Too many dominos out of place in my opinion. We'll see. I pretty emotional charged about this so I'm gonna take a quick break.
You're right about those dominos
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:57pm.I assume that the primary
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:35pm.Is there a reason you believe it's frivolous
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:51pm.I Believe
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:02pm.It's frivolous and bogus for the exact questions I asked.
Were any of them working and are now out of a job over this? Do any of them have lifetime disabilities now? Do they think a judgment of $2.6 million will make any emotional or mental stress just go away? What rights or inconveniences did they suffer to deserve $2.6 million each?
They were told numerous times to obey the law, move, etc and ignored police orders knowing full good and well what ignoring those orders could mean. They went prepared to be sprayed with pepper spray by bringing goggles and bandanas and some wore multiple layers to avoid being hurt by the rubber bullets. That's premeditation.
To monitarily reward them for their destructive behavior, ignoring the laws and OPD orders and their premeditation is wrong.
I don't believe for one second that being given $10+ million dollars is going to change the ports mind, Bush's mind or anybody elses mind about the war. Neither do I believe paying them will end the war.
The only message I see coming out of this should it go to trial and they win a judgment is it's OK to run rampant in the city, break the law, disobey police, risk lives and then scream brutality and get paid for it.
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Thanks for sharing your opinion Onry
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:10pm.Is anyone any good at looking up court documents?
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:43pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
I Don't Know About Documents But
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:48pm.yesterday this website was posted in the comments section of one of the stories. You can look up cases in WA State.
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Premeditation?
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:38pm.You've got me wondering, Onry
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:44pm."There's more evidence of them breaking laws than them being brutalized."
Is there evidence of any of the plaintiffs breaking the law?
Hamilton was the only one
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:49pm.Thanks!
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:54pm.Sure about that?
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:48pm.You're right. My
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:40pm.I Digress
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:52pm.All I know is there was a list of 50+ people arrested throughout that ordeal. Whether any of them were the plaintiff's or not, I don't know.
I do believe laws were broken, property was damaged and innocent lives were risked.
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
List of those arrested at
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:57pm.Thanks EG
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:11pm.Daisy Montague
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:13pm.Daisy doesn't say anything
Submitted by Merwyn Haskett on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:28pm.Yet the Olympian article says she's suing because of the "brutality" she endured. What gives?
Good point Merwyn
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:39pm.except...
Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:44pm.Perhaps you've noticed that
Submitted by OlyDowntowner on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:43pm.Sigh.....civil DISOBEDIENCE is "unlawful" by nature
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:25pm.Just as the blacks that sat at the lunch counter broke the law. When will we get over this silly crap?
The inplication is that these four were responsible for property damage and "assault" on police officers. Nothing is further from the truth.
Let's deal with truth and not hysteria, huh?
How hard have you looked? Its all out there, all you have to
Submitted by Tschida on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 4:57pm.One of the great non sequiturs of the left is that, if the free market doesn't work perfectly, then it doesn't work at all-- and the government should step in.
Thomas Sowell
I appreciate the additional info folks
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:27pm.No, but I believe the burden
Submitted by Ehver Green on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:37pm.There is a terrific open thread
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 5:48pm.Docents
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:51pm.Gug...
Submitted by Marcie on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:56pm.Last night, you had the audacity to reply "who cares?" to a blog from JustPlnOnry (and then have the cajones to say sarcasm isn't nice). Now you try to "cut of" (I'm assuming you mean "cut OFF") the comments on your thread because they're not going the way you want.
What's your deal, man? Just chill out and go with the flow. This isn't called GuglielmoBlog for pete's sake...
You might want to check out the PM I sent you earlier.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:00pm.C'mon Gug, just go with the burn
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:01pm.Funny, I sent it two minutes before you posted this.
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:03pm.Maybe you creeped Marcie out
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:04pm.Hey, she's the one talking about my cajones...
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:09pm.Why Does There Even Need To Be A Feud?
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:14pm.I'm not feuding with you over remarks you've made in the past. In fact, I asked point blank questions to you regarding your remarks to my posts and you're not man enough to even acknowledge them or realize how childish you're behaving.
Why am I any different from anybody else you've apologized to for your bad behavior/remarks? Why are others allowed to make negative remarks to you and you laugh it off but are hateful with me?
And some wonder why women won't post around here... I don't think it's so much the gun talk as it is the disrespect for their opinions.
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Oh Onry
Submitted by Guglielmo on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:18pm.Thank You!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:24pm.NOW can we move on and all be civil again without fear of feuding?
I am a wobbly at heart. Always have been. Think I always will be. - Olyblogger "Mike"
Oops..
Submitted by Marcie on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 7:19pm.Thanks for starting this thread Gug
Submitted by Norm on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 6:35pm.Gandhi said it.
Submitted by Mike on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 8:45pm.First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
My prediction, easy money, the City will have to settle or lose. Civil rights were violated, that's a payday for attorneys that should cause the Police Chief to enjoy a suspension without pay or termination for cause at some point.