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Submitted by Phan on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 11:16am.
Sep 7 2007 - 12:00pm
Sep 7 2007 - 2:00pm

When: This Friday, Sept. 7, noon to 2 pm

Where: Baird's Olympia office, 120 Union Ave (off Capital Blvd, downtown). Park on adjacent streets.

Also, tune in to KAOS, 89.3 FM today (Thursday) from noon to 1 pm, to hear a discussion with Gail Johnson, Steve Niva, and Phan Nguyen, about Baird's current Iraq position.

Last week, Congressman Brian Baird announced his position switch on the occupation of Iraq. Following a recent trip to the region (his 5th), he has gone from opposing the 'surge' to supporting it (thru next Spring).

Last week in Vancouver over 500 attended a Baird town hall meeting, the overwhelming majority were vehemenently opposed to his position switch. In Longview, hundreds attended a similar public meeting with similar results. Why didn't Brian Baird hold a public meeting in Olympia? We think we know why.

Read more


Join us for a public rally in opposition to Congressman Baird's support for the 'surge'. Come to voice your concerns and views!

We will have an open stage (with megaphone) for the public to 'TALK BACK TO BAIRD'. This will occur in the parking lot outside of Baird's office.

Members of Vets for Peace, Local 109, Rachel Corrie Chapter, will lead a delegation into the office to present a written response to Baird's new position with request for a direct response by Sept 14.


Simply stated, Baird constantly stresses that he was opposed to the war, but having spent a few days in Iraq recently, he believes that the US is making "progress" and that the military occupation should be given another six months to change things around. He is saying this in a newspaper editorial and in several media interviews.

Below are my personal observations from listening to his extensive discussion with the Olympian editorial board. The discussion can be downloaded as MP3.

Note that even the Olympian editorial board was not convinced by Baird's arguments.


Baird is very dismissive of his anti-war constituency, whom he flippantly refers to as the "Out of Iraq" caucus [see correction below]. While hundreds of people expressed their disappointment with Baird at the recent Vancouver town hall meeting, Baird brushes them off as an irrational minority and contrasts them with a "quiet majority" that supports him for "telling the truth."

Baird insists that progress is being made in Iraq, and yet his standards of progress continue to be vague. He cites a few cases of schools and jobs being created here and there but makes no attempt to demonstrate how it represents a greater trend in Iraq as a whole.

He also mentions formerly dangerous areas that are now safer for US soldiers. When a member of the Olympian editorial board tells Baird, "But I'm looking at TV, and all I'm seeing is dead soldiers," Baird replies:

"That's part of the problem. All you're seeing is dead soldiers. What you're not seeing is -- because it's harder to show on TV -- is the area where we're not getting hit."

Although it's nice that there are places in Iraq where soldiers are relatively safer, it doesn't change the fact that soldiers are continuing to get killed at a constantly high rate, or greater than the numbers killed a year ago. His observation of one or two relatively safer regions does not correlate with the actual numbers for all of Iraq. Just because he personally did not witness any soldiers being killed does not mean Iraq is getting safer.

Also, we must question whether Baird's standards of "progress" is ever measured by the number of Iraqis killed, which has only increased. There's a difference between an Iraq that's simply safer for soldiers and an Iraq that's safer for the people who live there. Baird warns that if the US leaves, there could be "wholesale slaughter" in Iraq, as if that isn't alraeady happening with US contribution.

Baird also claims that his support for the military occupation is based on discussions he's had with leaders in Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, who want the US to stay. He fails to mention the fact that these leaders were not democratically elected and do not represent their people's interests. Instead, their concern is with maintaining the status quo, suppressing dissent in their own countries, and continuing US support for their regimes. Rather than hoping that a "democracy building" project in Iraq will prevail, these leaders are counting on the US to quell true Iraqi aspirations.

Baird raises the spectre of Iran:

"I believe the Iranians present a clear danger. I'm not calling for an invasion, but I think to the extent that they are unchecked in that region, it is dangerous for our future."

What does he mean by that? It's true that Iran unchecked poses a threat to US hegemony in the Middle East, but why should the standard be US hegemony in the Middle East? Why should the standard be benchmarks imposed by the US on the Iraqi people and an Iraqi Oil Law prepared by the US and BearingPoint for the benefit of foreign oil companies? His preference can thus be stated as: An unchecked US in the Middle East is preferable to an unchecked Middle East in the Middle East.

Baird states that a US withdrawal will destabilize the Middle East. If he is truly concerned with instability in the Middle East, the solution is not further US interference in the form of military occupations and greater arms sales and unquestioning support for Israel's occupation. He should be concentrating on real solutions in the Palestine-Israel conflict.

And Steve Niva has pointed out one of the most ignorant comments that Baird has made about Iraq. Baird told the Olympian editorial board,

"What happens if a Shi'a theocracy takes over [in Iraq] and progressive independent women who are currently in the region are suddenly all forced into burqas and they can't go to school and -- and they're stoned to death for learning to read? What happens if we allow that?"

As Steve has noted, the burqa is a phenomenon specific to Afghanistan, and stoning women to death for learning to read is something more likely to happen in US-supported Saudi Arabia. So that begs the question: Is Brian Baird sure he visited Iraq?

Baird says his goal is not to withdraw from Iraq: "That's not my goal. My goal is success and security." Success and security seems to be unrelated to Iraqi aspirations. With close to a million Iraqis dead, more than a million internally displaced, and two million as external refugees, and the Iraqi government being forced to follow US "benchmarks" and hand over its oil to foreign corporations, Baird's only signs of progress are a few areas that are safer for US soldiers (without actually reducing the ongoing US military fatality rate) and some isolated and possibly temporary instances of successful reconstruction.

He pushes progress in Iraq as the norm and "chaos, death and instability" as the hypothetical outcome of withdrawal.

Last year, when I spoke to Baird about withdrawing from Iraq, he referenced the old saying, "You break it, you bought it," by which he meant that since we have destroyed Iraq so completely, it's up to us to make things better. However his analogy fails because we are breaking Iraq more and more. If we really intended to "buy it," we would be offering reparations and taking in significantly more Iraqi refugees. Instead, the US is conducting the same actions in Iraq as when we initially "broke it."

Baird is calling for six more months to see the situation in Iraq change, which is suspiciously similar to the excuses of Thomas Friedman, as documented by FAIR, who seems to call for six more months...every six months.

»

Out of Iraq caucus

Baird is very dismissive of his anti-war constituency, whom he flippantly refers to as the "Out of Iraq" caucus.
They actually do call themselves the "Out of Iraq Caucus." Seriously. 
»

Emmett,

You just gave me a huge laugh today. Thanks. BTW Phan is it? How do you know that what he has seen isn't correct? I am not trying to start a fight but if he has been there and has changed his mind, and you may not have ever travelled there...you see where I am going.
»

Phan actually addressed this

Phan actually addressed this pretty well.  Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump hard data, and the data is that US soldiers and Iraqi civilians are still experiencing high casualty rates.  Though there may have been "progress" in some areas (some of which were practically cleared of their population... see Baghdad Burning), the fact is that the overall levels of violence have been getting consistently worse since 2003.

The Canaanite's Call

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Oh, I'm not arguing with

Oh, I'm not arguing with that. I actually tend to disagree with Baird on this one, though its refreshing to see him willing to go down over this. I'm just pointing out that Phan is embellishing a bit.
»

Vincent and Emmett,

Vincent, the reasons I question Baird's stance are detailed above. I also explain above that when I spoke to Baird last year, his stance wasn't too different from what it is now, so I would dispute the idea that he made a complete 180 after briefly visiting Iraq. The difference is that he's more vocal and open about it now because he can say he's been there.

Baird says that he has been "to the region" several times. More specifically, he has been to Iraq twice. I don't know how many days he spent there and how often he left the Green Zone, although he did say he visited Anbar and Ramadi, if I recall correctly.

Nevertheless, Baird's arguments depend very little on his own observations, and when they do reference an observation, he makes no attempt to prove that his personal observations reflect a wider trend in Iraq. For instance, he stresses how some areas in Iraq have become safer for US soldiers. Yet this observation does not translate into fewer overall US military deaths, which has either stayed constant or else risen since last year.

As I also mentioned above, he came back from Iraq warning about burqas and women getting stoned for learning to read, none of which he witnessed or even heard about in Iraq.

There is currently a trend among US politicians to score points and assert their Iraq expertise by counting the number of times they've been to Iraq, without regard to the actual amount of time they spent in Iraq, what they did there, and where they were in Iraq. Usually these trips last a day or two and are primarily if not exclusively inside the Green Zone.

For more information about what goes on in these congressional delegations to Iraq, refer to the following articles:
You may recall last April when John McCain claimed that so much progress was being made that he and other congressional delegates could walk freely through a Baghdad marketplace. Of course he didn't mention that they did so while wearing flak jackets and being accompanied by a hundred US soldiers and five helicopter gunships flying overhead to protect them.

I have been to the Middle East, though not Iraq. I also speak and read more Arabic than Brian Baird does, but I wouldn't consider myself more knowledgable about the Middle East based solely on that.

As for the thing about the "Out of Iraq Caucus," I wasn't aware that Baird was referencing that, but listening back to the audio, I sit corrected. I wouldn't have purposely tried to embellish anything because I think Baird has done enough to isolate himself with his own words.

Again, the audio does clearly show that Baird considers folks who are disappointed in him as irrational, uninformed, and a vocal minority that sees everything as black & white. He claims that antiwar folks who disagree with him are acting out of "frustration about what's happened, in our anger having been both lied to with false promises and false threats," and that this anger is preventing us from following our "moral responsibility," which to him means staying the course for at least another six months.

He then claims that there is a "quiet majority" within his constituency that actually supports him. I think that clearly shows how easily Baird dismisses his constituency, particularly after the overwhelming opposition he faced at his town hall meetings in Vancouver and Longview.
»

Electoral Suicide

It doesn't make sense, especially electorally, to turn tables and decide to vociferously support the occupation of Iraq. It makes me think that Mr. Braid has possibly been the victim, at least to a certain degree, of some of the "brainwashing" mentioned in the articles listed in Phan's previous comment. I think we owe it to our community, to Rep. Baird, to America and to all of the Iraqi people to call Rep. Baird on this political blunder.
»

Ok

how do you support this "brainwashing" idea? This would be a diagnosis of his mental abilities, which none of us know. If someone who knows where their bread and butter votes are, people who oppose Iraq, why would he do this 180 and commit political suicide as you think he is doing? If he firmly believes his new position, I have more respect for him now that he is standing up for a cause rather than backing down and pandering to a vocal special interest group to get re-elected. My point is that you, Robert, and Phan, did not experience what he did, do not know the exact reasons why he changed his mind, but seem to pull out the old excuse of "brainwashing" or some other reason to jusify his about-face. Neither of you can accurately comment on Rep. Baird when you did not share his exact experiences. We all know that we can get two different views on the progress, or lack of in Iraq, depending on the sources and news we choose to believe.
»

"Pandering to a vocal special interest group"?

Ahem. And who would that "special interest group" be?
»

Ahem,

any group with a specific cause/agenda to push.
»

Like The Project For A New

»

I think he's willing to lose the next election over this

But, then again, knowing the third district, and that Baird is a strong incumbent, I don't think he will.

I was in a meeting with him last week and I got the impression that was willing to lose. But, I thought he'd make a better case for himself if he was more explicit about why he was making the decision. He made a good argument to us, but the entire meeting was off the record. 

»

Vincent, please re-read

Vincent, I'm not sure you've fully read what I wrote. I did not say Baird made a 180. What I wrote above was just the opposite. He was already feeling this way when I spoke to him last year before he went to Iraq, so it was not a complete turnaround.

As for the "brainwashing," note that it is used in quotes and is not a literal brainwashing. It's the term that was used by then-Governor George Romney in reference to similar congressional delegations during the Vietnam War. It is fully explained in the articles I link to above. I did not use the term above, and Rob used the term directly in reference to the article linked above.

No, neither Rob nor I have experienced what Baird experienced in Iraq. But let's take it further. A ton of Congress members have visited Iraq now, and many have made multiple trips. Some have returned saying the situation is very bad. Others have returned saying progress is being made. Which do we believe?

Why does a one- or two-day CODEL trip to Iraq automatically make someone an expert? We have to ask more questions. If we are to rely on Baird's first-hand experiences in Iraq, then Baird would need to clearly explain how his experiences in Iraq shape his current stance, and how his experiences there truly represent the general trend in the current military occupation. As I have demonstrated above, he has failed to do so.

I'm not saying we can't trust anyone who visits Iraq, but we need to be more critical and ask questions before we can accept them as the supreme authority. Brian Baird has not tried to connect the dots but has instead resorted to talking about burqas, women getting stoned to death, and the supposed Iran threat -- none of which appears to be based on his trip to Iraq.

I have spoken to several Iraq veterans and also a couple of Iraqi refugees. Their experiences contrast with Baird's. What's important is to see how all these personal experiences relate to the larger direction of the Iraq occupation.

And why should we trust Baird's experiences over the experiences detailed in the recent New York Times op-ed by seven soldiers serving in Iraq? The difference is that these soldiers are able to more clearly explain how their experiences relate to the occupation as a whole.

I have given Baird the benefit of the doubt and personally have not written or said anything about how he might have fallen for a "dog and pony show," even though it is easy to draw such inferences based on the experiences of other politicians and journalists, as reported in the articles that I link to above.

All the criticisms I make above relate directly to his comments.

Finally, to underscore the value that these supposed 180-degree turnaround visits have for the Bush administration, I'll cite the case of Michael O'Hanlon and Kenneth Pollack. Following a recent trip to Iraq, these two "respected" analysts wrote an op-ed in the New York Times claiming that the US is making progress in Iraq and should stay to get the job done. Suddenly the mainstream media and administration officials, including Dick Cheney, were citing O'Hanlon and Pollack as reasons why we should stay in Iraq. The media and Cheney have claimed that these are two formerly anti-war critics who have made a 180-degree turnaround after visiting Iraq. What they failed to explain was that neither O'Hanlon nor Pollack were real critics of the war. Pollack had even written a book promoting war on Iraq before the war began. Eventually, O'Hanlon admitted that their trip itinerary "was largely organized by the military." As well,

O'Hanlon and Pollack were in Iraq for a total of 7 1/2 days. They spent every night ensconced in the Green Zone in Baghdad. They did not spend a single night in any other city. As O'Hanlon admitted, they spent no more than "between 2-4 hours" in every place they visited outside Baghdad, and much of that was taken up meeting U.S. military commanders, not inspecting the proverbial "conditions on the ground."

I once had a flight layover in Germany. Does that make me an expert on Germany?

Vincent, you have the right to disagree with me. But if you have a problem with what I wrote, you need to point it out, rather than criticize me for things I didn't write.

Baird held two town hall meetings in Vancouver and Longview. At the meetings he was overwhelmed by hundreds of constituents upset at him. I would not call that a "vocal special interest group."

And really, just because Baird is making a decision that is in direct opposition to the will of his constituents doesn't mean he's right.

I keep hearing how people disagree with Baird but respect him for taking a stand. We tend to glorify the image of the archetypal man who stands by his convictions against the overwhelming disapproval of the majority. But sometimes that man and his convictions are just plain wrong. When it's a matter of life and death, we need to call him out.

»

oh absolutely

We tend to glorify the image of the archetypal man who stands by his convictions against the overwhelming disapproval of the majority. But sometimes that man and his convictions are just plain wrong. When it's a matter of life and death, we need to call him out.

This is an absolutely excellent summation. I think having a discussion of social archetypes would be incredibly valuable for individual community members to start recognizing the mechanisms of propaganda and ideation. The Bush campaign worked the above archetype to a T in getting elected. An amazingly effective and powerful way to escape any actual substance and to thwart curiosity. We trust archetypes, for good and ill. Thank you for bringing it up, Phan.

»

Thanks for the Great Explanation

Thank you Phan, for making the effort and taking the time to think and write this great explanation.

»

Phan

most of that post was in regard to Robert, very little for you. Sorry I wasn't clearer about it.
»

The Daily Show with John Stewart

Did anyone catch this a few nights ago? Where the guy they currently have in Iraq was talking about Operation Fluffy Bunny? The focus of it was to talk about a congressman/senator from Indiana explaining how walking through a market in Iraq was just like walking through the markets in Indiana during the summer. I'll see if I can find the clip on youtube later tonight, needless to say it was funny, in a sad kind of way, I'll let your imaginations work for awhile though............
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Rubbed the wrong way

I appreciate humor, don't get me wrong. But this is a serious issue and a serious post, and I am not sure that Operation Fluffy Bunny, and similar satire would be warmly regarded by the some 5 or 6 dozen Iraqis who have died today because of the invasion (or by their families).

Innocent people are dying and suffering because our government entered (aggressively) into an unnecessary military action. It's really not funny.

And I think John Stewart does a disservice to humanity for creating satire out of such a horrible reality.

I can imagine being an Iraqi, living in mortal fear every day...

For what? So the USA can ensure access to oil.

»

Well, luckily in this

Well, luckily in this wonderful nation we live in, neither one of us will face a firing squad for disagreeing with each other. I think John Stewart is doing a great job, and dealing with things by using humor is something I can truly get behind.

You go ahead and wave your sign and do your protesting, I'll stick to laughing at him and others who mock our politicians.

»

Blood Oil

It bothers me that people are dying so that the US is ensured reliable access to Middle Eastern crude oil.

»

And that's cool, and I'm not

And that's cool, and I'm not saying you're wrong Rob, I'm also not saying that you shouldn't be proactive in the manner that you are. I'm not you though.
»

Fake news that tells the truth

I hear what you're saying Rob, but sometimes we need people like Stewart to speak truth in way that others can't. He's delivered some of the most devastating critique of the war through humor, and I think he's a hero for doing so. Believe me, it's humor with an edge (I'm not sure if you watch the show). As we saw when the nazis came to town, humor and satire can be used as a force for good.


When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion. -C.P. Snow
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How did it go today?

Unfortunately, I couldn't make it, though I wanted to be there! So I am curious about how things went.
»

"You break it you buy it."

The "you break it - you buy it" analogy is also defunct in regard to Iraq because Iraq is not a dish or a piece of flatware.

The nation of Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people.

The USA has not purchased Iraq by breaking it. If doing that was possible I could walk into your house with a sledgehammer and "buy it."

The "you break it you buy it" idiom doesn't apply to foreign nations.

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I'm really starting to

I'm really starting to believe that this war is the least of our worries. We're there, we made a mess, there's nothing we can do about that.

This war is a product of a lot of other really screwed up parts of our society and to stop it doesn't stop it from happening again, like in Iran right before our next presidential election.

I hold a stone in my hand

»

Good Point, Rob

And speaking of which, those of you who are upset over your Congressman Baird, might want to take a closer look at our Congressman over here to your northwest, Norm Dicks. The nature of the accusation touches on Rob's point. Please notice it covers both major political parties. Of course, they are all innocent until proven guilty.
»

Watch the new HBO feature

James Gandofini (The Sopranos) interviews soldiers that were injured in Iraq.  Granted, these people served "pre-surge", but I had trouble holding back tears and keeping my stomach down seeing the damage we do to humans in war.

The only thing that "the surge" could do to improve the war is to stop it.

"There is only one race, the human race" - The Neville Brothers

»

I wonder if images of

I wonder if images of mutilated Iraqis provoke the same reaction.

I hold a stone in my hand

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Many people would react similarly.

Unfortunatly, most people are touched more by injuries to "us" then injuries to "them." It is a sad reminder of our tribal impulses.
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yup

It bothers me.

I hold a stone in my hand

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