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Submitted by emmettoconnell on Sat, 01/03/2009 - 2:07pm.
Almost every week this is the "What's on the city council's plate this week" review. I don't cover everything, so if you want the full rundown, read the packet and agenda yourself. This Tuesday the City Council will hold a public hearing on proposed changes to a property tax exemption for parts of the city (including downtown) where more growth is intended. In addition to some housekeeping changes, the new tax exemption could include cutting out the blocks that would house the proposed Larida Passage development. Here's what I wrote a few months ago on the same topic. The logic is that the recent zoning changes by the city council to allow for taller buildings on those blocks make up for the tax exemption.
Jeanette Hawkins, a Triway (the Larida Passage developer) representative, countered in a late November email: ...the existing public investing adjacent to the isthmus makes the exemption unnecessary. The city has no data upon which to base that assertion. Presently, some of the near-by amenities are either unfinished or in disrepair. All the public investments downtown ... struggles (sic) to find money to meeting necessary capital, maintenance and expansion needs. Projects such as Larida Passage would help the city meet those needs by revitalizing downtown business and attracting additional investment... Its interesting to plug into the debate so far. Back in October, one of the city council's committees kicked the issue around, getting some differing opinions on the topic. A couple of interesting statements during the meeting: Hawkins said that (this was before her email cited above) that the exemption wouldn't matter whether Larida Passage was built, but rather how quickly it filled. Thad Kurtz (I'm pretty sure) said that while the taxes that could be raised on the isthmus were small, the city would end up subsidizing construction there if the exemption were not taken away. To be honest, I'm not really sure what Thad said, it seems like a great point though. Jean Marie Thomas, a council candidate last year, said that the tax exemption should stay in place until a general density goal is reached downtown. Russ Meixner also wrote a long email that is worth reading, but to me right now, not retyping.
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What I said...
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Sun, 01/04/2009 - 12:39pm.seems pretty incomprehensible even to me in the summarized minutes Emmett kindly links to, so I'm not surprised he's not sure! They spell my name wrong, too...)
By way of background, this is about whether or not to excuse each owner of one of Triway's 141 $1 million dollar proposed condos from eight years of property taxes, about $76,000 each at current rates - a roughly $11 million total giveaway by the city. (And more if the rest of the land now approved by Councilmembers Mah, Strub, Kingsbury, Ottavelli, and Machlis for the rezone were ever developed in similar projects.) The land use committee (Messmer, Strub, and Machlis) didn't just kick this around; they voted 3-0 to recommend dropping the exemption for the isthmus).
If there are any of you who are really enamored of the geeky details, what I said was:
I referred them to my letter to the Council about this. Basically, the study overestimates the sales tax revenues the project might generate by 20% by using numbers for bigger households than Triway expects. It also overestimates by assuming they will make all of these purchases in Olympia and none at Costco or on-line or in Seattle, and by assuming they'll be living here year round instead of going to Palm Springs for the winter. It estimates construction costs at 33% higher than the city staff's EIS figures, and this increases the estimate of the city's tax revenues from the actual construction proportionately. It counts 64% of the sales tax revenue that it attributes to people who are not living in Larida Passage as new sales tax revenue, as if those people were not already shopping and paying sales taxes some place else in town. It ignores the fact that the city will have increased costs to support 141 new households.
Best,
Thad
Just Say "No" to the Property Tax Exemption
Submitted by Berd on Mon, 01/05/2009 - 7:37pm.As if the view-shed amenity isn't enough, then a decision to establish a property-tax exemption for would be luxury condos would further tarnish this whole scheme by painting the letters G-R-E-E-D in bold across this whole project.
Stop the rezone! Stop Larida Passage! Special interest influence over governing councils is a principle ingredient in the harmful relationship between theis society and its various (national, economic, ecological, social) environments. It has to stop!
People deserve to be treated equally. This project represents special treatment for a powerful and influential developer, its associated interests, and the prospective upper class tenants of such an elitist and exclusionary development.
The Property Tax Exemption Should Stay In Place
Submitted by Peter Alden Stroble on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:31am.These exemptions are meant to be incentives used to lure private development into the urban core - the type of development that is needed to accomplish our comprehensive plan goals (i.e., protect our farms and forests from suburban sprawl, reduce our reliance on the auto and foreign oil, among other things). Cities must invest in themselves in order to achieve such goals and these types of exemptions are an excellent way of doing just that.
Further, to remove the exemption specifically because the isthmus property itself is "special" or "high in amenities" seems to establish highly subjective standard that could be used to interfere with proposed future projects and comp plan changes. In many ways it is the equivalent of spot zoning for tax incentives. Such a willy-nilly policy decision would also send a terrible message to the development community, further damanging Olympia's already ailing reputation in that arena.Remember, the tax exemption is already "progressive" (in the tax sense of the word) because it only lasts for eight years for "high-end" units; for lower-end units it lasts much longer, and in some cases, indefinitely.
For more info on Property tax Incentives for Downtown Housing, please visit: http://oly2012.org/page12.html.
Protection of Wilderness / Rural Farm Land
Submitted by Berd on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 1:02am.Peter, your interest in protecting wilderness and rural farm lands is admirable.
However, this project represents an ongoing injustice of special influence for special interests over public policy.
This project represents relegating a space that a great many residents of Olympia and Washington State hold hear. It represents taking an amenity from the public.
Our society is tremendously harmful toward the natural world. Many (but clearly not all) people who are wealthy participate in behavior and business activities that are harmful and destructive. To me, it is a very serious and egregious violation of the public interest to reward people for those destructive and harmful behaviors.
For example: How will we know that there will not be people who reap financial profit from war contractors living in that building?
This project is so divisive because it brings up just these issues.
Maybe we can find a way to have luxury housing downtown that we can all agree on...
I am interested in discussing and addressing my above concerns (about detrimental economic activity) and perhaps finding an effective resolution of these very legitimate concerns. But how can that happen while the City Council, as well as virtually every governing body in this society, do the business of special interests?
Not so...
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:06pm.Just for the record, Larida Passage will do essentially nothing toward either 1) protecting our forests and farms from urban sprawl or 2) reducing our reliance on the auto. Sorry to have to go over this yet again, but:
On 1: Most buyers of these houses will not be people who would otherwise be living in Olympia's suburbs. There are very few buyers in the county with enough money to afford a million dollar residence; according to a recent letter to the paper from a local real estate agent, the Thurston County MLS shows only 19 sales of single family homes from $800,000 to $1.2 million in the last year. If successful, the project would primarily bring an additional 141 households who were shopping for a luxury waterfront condo to the area, not shift population from the suburbs to downtown.
On 2: Using the city’s standard transportation estimates, they figure that during the peak afternoon traffic period people in multi-family housing downtown will drive home or away 25% less than people in similar housing farther out. (The standard PM Peak Trip rate for multi-family housing outside downtown is 0.55; the rate for downtown multifamily housing is 0.41.) The difference is .14 trips PM Peak Trips per housing unit; 141 units times .14 is 19.7 trips. So, in return for having Triway’s buildings downtown, we could expect a grand total of something like 20 fewer trips per hour in the whole city during peak evening traffic. That includes people walking, biking, or riding transit instead of driving, and it includes people going out to buy something for dinner and coming back in fifteen minutes (which counts as two “trips” in these statistics.)
I wish Peter and Oly 2012 would address these objections to their claims, instead of just repeating them over and over; if they did, maybe I'd have to change my mind about them, but just going over and over this same ground isn't getting us anywhere.
Best,
Thad
Excellent Analysis
Submitted by Berd on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:08pm.Thank you Thad.
Rehashing Points and Addressing Specific Objections
Submitted by Peter Alden Stroble on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 2:55pm.On 1: Your argument has nothing to do with this tax exemption policy. It focuses on the viability of "Larida Passage" itself. Don't confuse the rezone itself, or the tax exemption policy, with the Larida Passage project. The city has made the decision to adjust the allowable heights on the isthmus for any type of housing that could eventually be put there. Likewise, we have decided to implement a progressive tax exemption policy that applies to all levels of housing affordability in downtown. I have never argued in favor of Larida Passage the project - only the policy to make it or a like projects feasible.
On 2: I responded to this argument way back on November 11 (which you are now implying I have been avoiding) here, when i said, "Again, 20 fewer is start. Certainly you don't think it is possible to solve all of our transportation objectives in one fell swoop. Your argument here seems akin to saying "my vote doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things so why bother voting."" Comp plan progress has to start somewhere.
Hope this helps clarify things.
Peter's right, in part...
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 4:02pm.But that said, Peter's right about this part in saying he's supporting the idea in general. And I agree with him, in part! I can imagine plenty of housing projects downtown that I think would advance the city's sustainability goals, and that I at least might not mind a tax break for. From that point of view, I'd like the tax break to be structured to encourage housing that people who were actually working in the city could afford, not housing for retired people who aren't likely to be commuting to work anyway, and I'd like it to include green requirements of the sort Chad360 mentions below. (I still think there are other kinds of tax breaks, like supporting weatherization across the city, that would provide far greater sustainibility returns.)
On 2. My point's isn't that a 20 car reduction is nothing; it's that from a public policy point of view it's a pitiful return for the sacrifice of $11 million in revenue.
Best,
Thad
Subjective standards aren't necessary
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:22pm.I'd prefer to have the city simply put an income ceiling on this tax exemption, for a variety of reasons.
1. Although it's a lot of money for many people, I find it hard to believe that someone with the financial resources to buy a $1 million dollar condominium and to pay appropriately sized condominium ownership fees every year will find whether or not they are going to save $9,000 a year in property taxes a very significant factor in their purchasing decision. I agree with what I think Councilmember Strub said about this in the Land Use committee's discussion of the exemption issue; I think that if really expensive waterfront condos are going to sell in Olympia at all, they will sell with paying regular property taxes as part of the deal, and that there's no need for the city, the county, Medic One, the library and so on to sacrifice a lot of revenue to help boost such projects over some imaginary cost barrier. (It's $11 million over eight years for Larida Passage alone, for example.)
2. Contrary to the letter Triway submitted in the Council packet that Emmett posted on this issue, there's no reason that imposing an income limit on the exemption would require an audit of potential purchasers, and there's no need to just remove the exemption from the isthmus rather than putting a ceiling on the tax break across the board... The State's enabling legislation explicitly sets out other obvious ways of imposing such a limit, like limits on rents or sale prices:
From RCW 84.14.030
An owner of property making application under this chapter must meet the following requirements:
....
(2) The multiple-unit housing must meet guidelines as adopted by the governing authority that may include height, density, public benefit features, number and size of proposed development, parking, income limits for occupancy, limits on rents or sale prices, and other adopted requirements indicated necessary by the city. The required amenities should be relative to the size of the project and tax benefit to be obtained;
And from RCW 84.14.40:
(6) The governing authority may adopt and implement, either as conditions to eight-year exemptions or as conditions to an extended exemption period under *RCW 84.14.020(2), or both, more stringent income eligibility, rent, or sale price limits, including limits that apply to a higher percentage of units, than the minimum conditions for an extended exemption period under *RCW 84.14.020(2).
Best,
Thad
I agree...
Submitted by Peter Alden Stroble on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 3:47pm.I agree that subjective standards shouldn't be necessary, which is one of the reasons I am against repealing this exemption (is that the right phrase?) on the basis of the project location and/or amenity level.
I also believe that these tax incentives should be used in an "all-the-above" approach, and that there should not be any income or value ceiling placed on them. Not to get too finance-technical, but the incentives only have the appearance of benefiting the owners of the house units, when in fact, they benefit the developer. While it's true the owners will not have to pay annual taxes to the government, the net present value of these tax payments will be reflected, theoretically, in the market price they pay the developer for the units (i.e., the buyers will be willing to pay a bit more to the developer because they will realize that they won't have to pay taxes).
This of course begs the question, why should the developer get this benefit? Answer: to lower the risk level of these types of comp-plan-needed projects so as to more easily attract investment in them from the development community.
But, Peter
Submitted by Katherine on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 7:23pm.One of the best uses for tax exemptions is to help foster low- and mid-range developments in areas where wage-earners can benefit from housing. This means identifying swaths of land that are close to main arterials where mass transportation exists and close to employment centers. This gets at creating a walkable/ridable city where people are on the streets and among their neighbors instead of isolated in motorized bubble. (I, for one, feel stuck in mine, schleping two small children with me everywhere, to go shopping for the restaurant, be able to make it to my other job and back to daycare on time, etc. I can't wait until their little legs can keep up!)
And all this talk about subjectivity misses the point. Human's have guts and their related reactions for a reason. What is so wrong about a ceiling on exemptions? A high ceiling, like $800K per unit? Will this really make life so much more difficult for developers? The main question I have at that point is how is that exemption lid managed to continue to reflect the changing market? Any ideas?
How about impact fees on county development?
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 11:47am.Welcome back, Peter! As I said the other day when we met out walking, I keep hoping that Olympia 2012 will someday come out with a position paper in favor of impact fees in the county, and that you'll start lobbying for those as energetically as you've been lobbying for your current list of incentives for downtown development, all of which provide direct benefits to developers at the expense of everybody else.
Of course, not having impact fees also means that everybody else pays extra taxes to support the costs resulting from new development in order to make it easier for developers to sell houses.
I think impact fees in the county would be a far more effective and significant step toward increasing density in the city and meeting the goals of "smart growth" than anything Olympia 2012 has promoted so far.
Best,
Thad
Impact Fees for Rural Development
Submitted by Berd on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:32pm.That's a great idea. I have called for a moratorium on development of housing in outlying areas, but impact fees, coupled with very stringent environmental protection regulation (e.g. specifically in terms of location, and manner of development, etc.).
This speaks to the idea of a City/County cooperative partnership relationship.
Thad, have you considered running for City Council? You have so much knowledge, wisdom and great ideas. I would like to nominate you and ask you to consider running.
Thanks for the compliment
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:55pm.I have considered it, but I don't really want to. I don't like meetings much, and I don't like having people mad at me, and those both come with the job...
Best,
Thad
Fair Enough
Submitted by Berd on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 1:26pm.If it makes any difference, I would promise not to act angrily toward you.
Yes...
Submitted by Peter Alden Stroble on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 3:32pm.We will be discussing this issue at our next meeting. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I agree that it is a "smart growth" issue, but I, personally, know little about it at this stage. We will not, however, be endorsing any candidates for county commissioner, regardless of their position on this issue. My elementary understanding is that all three of the key candidates (Bog, Jor, Val) support these fees.
Great!
Submitted by Thad Curtz on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 4:10pm.I look forward to seeing what position you and your colleagues on the steering committee take on this issue; it would be terrific to have more company in urging the new Commission to cooperate with the city's sustainability goals by taking this step...
Best,
Thad
get real
Submitted by chad360 on Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:00pm.Why is it so hard for the Olympia community to grow smart?
Tax breaks = give-aways
I still see no green designs submitted for any development downtown except the City Hall, and if it ain't green, I don't want it--